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DMS is Broken on Artist

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  • AsherFrostAsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340

    Blocks a gen if the survivor let's go of it during a 45 second window after getting a hook.

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,554

    It's pretty broken on Artist. It needs a few changes.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,938
    edited February 3

    AFTER a survivor is hooked, it activates and starts its timer, but doesn't do anything yet. While its timer is active, if a survivor lets go of a gen, the gen is blocked for the remainder of the timer. It does not regress the gen, and the killer can't cancel it early in order to be able to start regression themselves. Its basically locked in a neutral state.

    Oh, also, the timer doesn't refresh with each hook. If there are 5 seconds left on the timer when another survivor is hooked, the perk is wasted for that hook entirely.

  • BrimpBrimp Member Posts: 1,533

    Legit let go of the gen before the hook wait for her to snipe the gen and get back on it. If she really wanted to injure you she would have to go for you or focus solely on you instead of sending more crows to your teammates.

  • AdvorsusAdvorsus Member Posts: 1,002

    I don't think it's overpowered or broken. Is it strong? Most definitely. But hey it's not ruin undying so 🤷

    And it actually has counterplay, you just have to play around it. Much like killers have to play around dead hard, ds, unbreakable, circle of healing, bt, boil over, flashlights, firecrackers, flashbangs, soul guard, and many other things.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,304

    But her extreme range ability is sort of what makes her unique.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,841

    If survivors don’t respect the ability at long range they’re giving the Artist free information every time a crow hits them. It’s the info that’s valuable, not the snipe gimmick.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,841

    She would still have an extreme range ability for info, just not extreme damage. Also I would argue her short range aura tracking and zoning is also unique.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,938

    So you get to watch them sit on the gen and not move, without being able to punish it short of crossing the entire map? cool.

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 906

    I still don't see how DMS gives that much more value than Deadlock. When a gen is blocked it doesn't regress; Cheryl's perk Repressed Alliance blocks gens as well so that the gen can't be regressed to protect it from the killer. If regression could take place DMS would be incredibly strong but it just stops the gen at the point it's at for right now and encourages survivors to work on multiple gens at the same time (which is a downside for the killer).

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,841

    And BBQ likewise shows you info on distant survivors, but people still think that information is valuable.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,938

    BBQ also isnt even remotely the same thing? Its aura reading isn't even very useful on most killers, its primary use is for points.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,841

    Well your complaint about the aura was you get to see them but be too far away to pressure them off. How is that any different from BBQ?

    Also I don’t use BBQ personally but I know there are quite a lot of people who use it just for the aura.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,304
    edited February 3

    That damage is only available if you either call her bluff or don't respect it. It's really easy to see coming and dodge, even if she fires a barrage.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,938

    the aura is only worth the perk slot on killers that can utilize it well. Killers like Pig, Billy, Nurse, Blight who use it either to know where everyone is, or to start the next chase as quickly as possible. Its also a perk that gets chosen in a loadout and not, you know, the killer's base power.

    This isn't like pinhead's addon where his chains can injure immediately on hit. The artist's ability to injure survivors by hitting them while they have crows already on them is specifically to punish survivors who ignore her power. The time to remove crows vs the cooldown to fire more is a pretty clear indication of that.

  • SunsetSherbetSunsetSherbet Member Posts: 1,292

    Still haven't seen an artist in ages, but keep telling me how DMS Artist is an epidemic we must nerf now.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,938

    I have to use her because I spent my shards on her for PR as a teachable, now she has like 80 envelopes to use up D:

  • JimbusCrimbusJimbusCrimbus Member Posts: 1,037

    Posting perfectly reasonable counters isn't allowed here. Survivors want everything handed to them. Hence: Dead Hard. Move along.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,304

    Unless I'm on...maybe Wraith, Freddy or Nurse, I only use it for the BP. Sometimes on Cenobite, but it's as reliable as a chocolate hammer for finding the box.

  • PleassBuiltInNoedPleassBuiltInNoed Member Posts: 617

    NOED is a bad example here honestly, it was never nerfed because it's not strong perk in the first place, you can literary counter it before it even comes into play

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,841

    Exactly, I said the same thing a few times already. Her extreme range damage is a gimmick, it's not a key part of her ability set.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,841

    I'm not sure why you're italicizing the killer's base power as if it has anything to do with anything. Doctor has all sorts of tracking in his base ability kit, are you saying he shouldn't because other tracking perks exist? What does a tracking ability being part of a killer's base abilities have to do with anything in this thread?

    Also taking away the ability to do damage at extreme range doesn't take away the ability to do damage at up to 30 meters. Survivors still can't ignore crows when the Artist is in the area even if they hypothetically took away the ability to do damage with them beyond that range.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,938

    Because the killer's base power is intended to either help them get injures, get downs, or both. A perk that is optional, can be applied to any killer, and only gives information is very clearly NOT intended for the same purpose. Anything built into a killer's kit directly is there for a purpose to aid them in either chase (antiloop,) or catching survivors off guard (stealth, or mobility.) Crows do literally neither of those things.

    Its funny you keep mentioning doctor, since his power prevents vaults/pallet drops/even dead hard. Crows do none of those things. She has to land a skillshot that has a placement and release delay. The kicker is that she either needs to do it when there are absolutely zero physical obstructions, or she needs to land it twice within a period where a survivor holding the button to disperse her crows is only 1 second shorter by default than her ability to place and release more crows... or the survivor ignores her power completely and then gets confused and cries on the floor when they get downed (assuming they were injured to begin with.)

    This is one of the easiest to counter powers in DBD history yet people still complain without taking a minute to learn how it actually works. You got your absolutely safe built in counterplay, yet you refuse to use it.

    As for the 30 meters argument, you clearly don't even understand how it works in a simple loop, why would you pretend to understand what impact it would have at 30+ meters versus 28?

  • ActualPainedFrogActualPainedFrog Applicant Posts: 279

    It's just annoying in solo queue when DMS always activates on my gen because I'm the only one doing gens, but Pain Resonance is pretty simple to counter and DMS can actually help you spread out gen progress to make up for your ######### teammates.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,938

    this hurts ya, but all you gotta do is alternate with another gen. just remember, DMS means there's an extremely high chance they're not running pop, let alone them being able to use it on said gen. The gen that gets "suddenly blocked" is like a free misdirect at that point.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,841

    What are you talking about that I don't understand how the power works in a simple loop? Her crows are very strong at zoning survivors out of loops and away from vaults and pallets.

    And where have I ever "complained about Artist"? I'm a killer main, I think Artist is a fun killer. I'm not "refusing to use a counterplay against her ability".

    And why are you pretending that her ability to hypothetically do damage at very long range is anything but a gimmick? You're on the one hand agreeing with me that it's extremely easy to counter taking damage at very long range but then on the other hand saying that if that aspect of her ability set was removed it would be a significant nerf. It can't be both.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,938
    edited February 4

    They can zone survivors out of being able to take advantage of a loop because she slows herself down to place them, which creates a mindgame vs the survivor just leaving the loop (hint on how to mindgame her btw.) As for complaing about her, you're directly trying to justify a both unnecessary and unrational nerf to her for literally no reason. You might not have directly said she's op plz nerf, but you're asking her map pressure to be gutted with little to no justification.

    It IS extremely easy to counter her long range damage potential, and your argument is "well then get rid of it" instead of "maybe survivors should rub two brain cells together and hold A or D for a moment"

    The entire point of her power at long ranges is to both get information, and punish survivors for not taking her seriously. The clown is a beast in chase, yet his map pressure is awful specifically because people ignore him if that purple fluff aint in their faces.

  • AsherFrostAsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340

    I mean, If the damage at range is, as you say, a gimmick, then why remove it at all? Why spend the time changing something with no real effect on gameplay?

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,841

    You're completely confusing what I'm saying. To reiterate

    • I have no opinion one way or another if she's broken in combination with Dead Man's Switch. I said that, FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE, if it actually it broken then one way to fix it without significantly nerfing Artist overall would be to tweak Artist so she doesn't do damage at extreme range.
    • I said multiple times that her doing damage at very, very long range is the weakest part of her kit. Her time is much better spent using long range crows for detection and then using crows in chase for zoning and aura tracking running survivors.
    • I'm not saying "get rid of it" for no reason. I'm saying IF that combo is actually overpowered then getting rid of her very long range damage is a minimal change that eliminates the broken part of the combo while still leaving everything else intact for Artist and still leaving Dead Man's Switch untouched for other killers.

    Also you mentioned Clown, but Artist is more like Doctor. Clown only has chase, that's it. Artist and Doctor have both anti-loop and solid tracking. She's basically on par with Doctor. She has potentially longer range tracking but has to more actively manage it, and her auras in chases are a bit better than Doctor's passive hallucinations and periodic screams. Doctor's anti-loop doesn't cause damage directly but is still effective at blocking survivors at vaults and dropped pallets. However his Madness has some innate slowdown which is useful to give him a bit more time in the match.

    Finally I'm not sure why you think a survivor who just ignores the crows at long range is "doing so safely". If you don't remove the crows they never go away so Artist knows where you are the entire time and can come after you whenever you likes. Even without extreme range damage all she has to do is get within about normal terror radius and launch a crow and you can get hit. Survivors still are going to be taking a risk if they never remove crows, even if Artist is out of range, because sooner rather than later she'll be in range since she knows you're there.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,841

    The whole point of this thread from the beginning was working under an assumption that Artist plus Dead Man's Switch is broken. Under than assumption, one way to fix it would be to remove that gimmicky long range damage because it would have minimal impact on Artist's who don't use Dead Man's Switch, would leave DMS unchanged for other killers, but would still address what potentially makes Artist+DMS broken in the first place.

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