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Question to the VETERAN/EXPERT players: what do you think of the CURRENT balancement state of Dbd?

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  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    Very synthetic, and quite truthful actually.

    The problem is not SBMM/MMR, it's core game mechanics that in many situations force tunneling/camping because it's very appealing.

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    Both, tell me as much as you can, I'm trying to collect opinions on the matter.

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    I completely agree but on SBMM/MMR. It's still better than nothing. Also me too, I don't have fun anymore playing solo almost, it feels you're almost forced to play full squad for real.

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    I thought you were a Dbd enjoyer 🤔.

    You're completely lacking the survivor part, also solo Q is really frustrating and a hell to play if you're actively trying to escape.

  • SMitchell8SMitchell8 Member Posts: 2,401

    Played since Chapter 6 or 7. Played both sides including a handful of killers.

    Survivor - Relaxed mode, pretty fun although a lack of new maps hurt. The variety of killers to face ensures it's never dull. Need new maps, darker and more intimidating ones preferably. A new game mode wouldn't hurt in the coming years. I don't agree with boon totems when medkicks also exsist. Killers imo should be able to BREAK them, not reset them.

    Killer - Used to find it good fun but obviously a more pressuring role than survivor. Currently a sweatfest every single game. Played 3 games last night and all 3 were against full red rank co ordinated dead harding, borrowed timing 360 jukers, despite me never going past rank 10 (old format) or currently Silver (Don't play loads) Just boring and predicable being outperked by the same perks every single game. Its just 16 perks to 4 and you don't have enough time to get them all in the time they get 5 gens done.


    Overall

    Good game but needs something else, a spark from somewhere.

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    Nooo come back! ☹

    The game is not as bad, come on! There are killers that are very fun to play like Pinhead or Doctor because they require precise mindgames and practice, and feel very rewarding!

    I cannot agree with you on everything: Nemesis is not strong or A tier, he's B tier, so is Artist, she's not that strong.

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    You can judge your level of skill if you've played the game for long enough and have a deep vision about it. I know players that have 3000 hours that explicitly say that they're bad at the game

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    Depends on the time of the day, if you play at night from 1 am to 7am, you just find very bad survivors and you might not find a lobby after 20 minutes of waiting even. In the morning of early afternoon you find sweatlords for real

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 12,616

    All that matters to me is that Pig is weak, therefore the game's balance is not at an ideal state. :P

  • KateDunsonKateDunson Member Posts: 714

    I play since March 2017, I've more than 7000hrs.

    The state of the game is the worst I've ever seen.

    Sbmm made my games feel miserable, so i have quit the game killer side around beginning of October when i was used to play hours of it daily, i am only playing survivor atm and is not better than killer but at least is not stressful, just annoying and boring, is a nurse/blight fest and killers hard camp slug tunnel.

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    Darker maps is very bad for balancement, because then you have people that play with filters and completely make the dark side useless.

    Just Circle of Healing is the problem, not the other ones, they're completely fine.

    Overall I agree

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    Lol. For real, what do you think, even in a synthetic way?

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    It's not at the worst it's ever been, that's false. The only problematic thing introduced is Circle of healing, but the game is miles better than what it used to be!

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 12,616

    I think map balance is at an all-time low, and I think too few Killers are viable against competent players.

  • herbaljellyfishherbaljellyfish Member Posts: 115

    I disagree. Maybe against god tier SWF Nemi and Artist aren't that great, but they are fundamentally broken. But again, It's just a band-aid to an actual problem. Those two killers(and a god tier nurse which is rare) are the only killers with no actual counterplay. They are completely busted and anyone who knows how tiles and loops work can easily zone(completely negating the terrible advised counterplay of "hold w" for easy downs with no need to mindgame. But that's beside the point. I'm not picking on killers. I play killers too and there's plenty of stuff busted on the survivor end. I've just grown to hate the game now. It's massively unfun and/or boring 90% of the time. It was fun for a while, but now imo it's one of the worst multiplayer games due to the just blatant poor design choices. Legion is my main for killer so you can imagine how rough that is. I don't want a win handed to me, challenge is welcome, but the dependence on perks/killers you use is ridiculous. This game could disappear from my steam library at this point and I would just say "good riddance". I don't even care if I've spent $100+ on it. It's an incredibly ######### game.

  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,114

    Game is balanced for most of time as long as survivors are full stacked SWF and killer is full meta nurse/blight, anything else is broken and mostly survivor sided.

    Most of the maps are too big and has too many loops to be viable for usual killers, and while most of "average" players can easily pick up SWF, playing just two killer is rather difficult.

    SoloQ is broken but it's not like survivors are forced to play different characters while playing SWF.

  • DbD_EnjoyerDbD_Enjoyer Member Posts: 458

    Yes i enjoy the game by actively trying to extract survivors salt not only by my gameplay and perks, but also at the end game chat, does that look healthy to you?

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    All time low? Like, do you remember the infinites there were before the reworks? Ok, there are maps like The Game that have 7/8 god pallets, but that's just one map. All the other ones usually have 1/2 god pallets max, and that's it.

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    Blatant poor design choices? What?

    Dud the game just improved since 2016, year after year no doubt. In 2018 there was the Marth88 Depip squad that showed how insanely unbalanced the game was back then! Dbd now IS DIFFERENT, and better! If you really believe that the game is in the worst state ever, tell me just one bad change apart from Cirle of Healing they did this and the previous year. During time they buffed and reworked a lot of killers (Doctor, Freddy, Clown), and made them better! Also, they did and will do quality of life changes for solos as VHS has.

  • VampwireVampwire Member Posts: 537

    I think COH is annoying and quad slowdown carries too many bad killers. I'd like to see less killer perks focused on actual regression and more on buying time through blocking gens or extending the match time (i.e Dead Mans Switch, No way out). Doing gens is boring and a lot of newer killers struggle with gen speeds. It makes losing gens less stressful and more interaction for survivors, while also rewarding killers for their skills rather than dragging out the match so long the survivors just run out of resources before they can finish the last gens.

    Overall I don't think the balance is as terrible as many people make it out to be. There's a couple of poo poo maps. And breakable walls are annoying. But often times the balance issues are blown out of proportion by people who didn't actually play that great but don't want to admit it. The game was so much worse than it is now I honestly can't even complain.

    Have been playing since 2018 btw.

  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,114
    edited March 13

    I think DMS is much better at carrying bad killers, usual regression perks can't really make time to actually chase a survivor, DMS does that.

    Honestly, most of the slowdown perks in general doesn't really help bad killers, those things all rewards winning, not losing like DS and DH in extent.

  • Leonardo1itaLeonardo1ita Member Posts: 1,983

    No, not even Nurse with 3 blinks and Blight can win alchemist ring can win against 4 giant toolboxes with BNPS and 12 charges with meta perks or 4 Lucky Break + Overcome with ranger medkits.

    Almost all killers now have an anti loop power, and even the last m1 killers remained can do a lot of stuff unless you have maps like Cowshed or The Game.

    Solo Q is not broken because of the matchmaking, you rarely find 4 very good solo survivors.

  • VampwireVampwire Member Posts: 537

    I disagree about DS but DH is a good point. I usually play Pyramid Head so DH is rarely an issue for me. As well as DS. But I do know the pain of getting robbed of a down because someone used the E perk.

    DS never really comes into affect as long as u don't tunnel or have a chad power that doesn't activate it (me).

    I'd say DMS is worse than meta regression solely because it encourages survivors to split up and do different gens. It's only really oppressive with boosted teammates or a camping artist. Where as something like a Tinkerer+Ruin blight can make the game a war of attrition if ruin isn't cleansed fast enough. Or any sort of killer with mobility. Spirit, Billy, Nurse, Blight (again). Basically turns the 3 most powerful killers into even stronger beasts. As well as ruin alone can buy u some good time on gens. Even if it's only up for about 2 minutes, if you're chasing survs off of gens that time adds up.

    I could also go on about things like Corrupt buying even more early game pressure, Pain Resonance's ability to target crucial gens, Pop being able to synergize with other slowdown perks or fall back on when the others fail.

    They don't necessarily help you in the way that DH does, but they are extremely impactful. And they make the game much easier for high tier killers and killer players with experience.

  • anarchy753anarchy753 Member Posts: 4,043
    edited March 13

    Killers and their powers.

    Personally I think this section is in a mediocre place. There's a lot of variation in power and strength. Some of the weaker killers are still fun to play though. Biggest issues I see are that the devs are very scared to change any powers even when it's fairly unanimously agreed upon that there's issues. They won't buff weak killers, they won't nerf strong killers, but then we get random executions like Deathslinger who was mid tier at best and basically lost his power.

    Secondly, it's obvious they're running short on unique ideas. Sadako is a jumble of other killer power pieces stitched together, and it's not the first time we've seen it. Oni, Freddy, Trickster and many other killers have already been criticised for their lack of originality compared to existing powers, and there's only so many variations of similar anti-loop abilities that can feel like they aren't remakes.


    Perks.

    The absolute trainwreck of balance. Blatantly overpowered perks untouched for years. Reworked perks fall into two categories, either "was useless, still useless with a 5% higher number," or "we just made this so overpowered that it's in every match until we fix it."

    New chapters come with either things so broken that they determine the meta (CoH) or you literally can't remember more than 1 of a character's perks because they're ######### awful, looking at you Jonah and Yoichi.

    The devs are leaning super hard into the power-creep method of balancing where they just won't touch things that are too strong, and keep making other stuff just as broken which makes even less-meta builds feel miserable to play against.


    Maps.

    I find most maps are decent. The biggest issues are not considering existing killer powers like Trapper and Blight when making and testing a map.

    The Game rework is still the worst thing to ever happen to a map, it's miserable on the killer side and frustrating on the survivor side when you just die because you found a dead end blocked by breakable walls and gen-doors.


    Items.

    Medkits are too strong, bit of a symptom of the CoH meta. That's about it. Green keys should probably have a default effect.


    Add-ons.

    Survivor add ons are fine. Recent killers, mostly reworks moreso than new releases, just get all of their add ons removed for memes that all feel ######### to use. I think it's just their way of avoiding anything being too strong, but honestly, what is meant to be appealing about 90% of Nurse, Billy, Freddy or Deathslinger's add ons? It makes the killers feel very one-dimensional because they lack the slight change-ups in playstyle between matches that other killers get.


    Offerings.

    If it's not bloodpoints, I don't want it.

    Offering exist solely to make 50% of the bloodweb worthless, and a sink for your hard earnt points that you can't avoid spending on.


    Luck.

    Luck is in a good place. Survivor spawns are fairly regular, I start the match going to the furthest gen and I can usually find 2-3 survivors around it. I think complaining about survivor spawns is a symptom of peoples' overreliance on Corrupt, as they force the survivors to split up and spread out, then complain about them having too much pressure.

    Totem spawns have never been brilliant. You can't make a totem spot that people can't learn, or perks exist to help find them, so there's really no fix to it, but hexes aren't meant to be impossible to find. You want to bring temporary perks? Don't complain when your perks then turn out to be temporary. Additionally, don't then bring a second temporary perk (undying) that has no effect except being a second copy of your temporary perk, then complain that you're down 2 perks. You're making these decisions, think through the consequences before blaming RNG.


    Edit:

    I play both sides, around 2.5k hours, been playing since the Pig released.

  • MrPebblesMrPebbles Member Posts: 151

    In a very band-aidish and RNG dependent way, I think public matches are kinda balanced, as long as you're playing with a decent build(as killer) and as survivor the game is pretty relaxing, and if you're experienced you will win most of your games on both sides. The problem is, you can lose in such snowballish way that feels very frustrating and can feel awful, but the game is def in a better state than back when infinites were a thing.

    For high level and competitive play, I think the balance is not even close to a good spot. Tournaments have loads of restrictions to make things somewhat balanced, and mostly consist of top tier killers, but if MAJORITY of the cast is not viable, and majority of the maps are banned, I don't consider the game in its "pure" state balanced for competitive play. But sure, if you're a god blight or nurse, you pretty much should fear no one and most of the sweaty public matches you lose will be on you, but with a bottom tier killer you're not playing the game on equal fields vs a rly good team, unless they're messing around and being ultra altruistic and throwing the game xD.

    I can see the game getting quite repetitive tho, imo the meta of dbd is SUPER stale and would be nice if they spiced things up. And the AWFUL bloodpoint grind makes things even more stale and demotivating for lots of players, they need to address it afap if they wanna put the game in a healthier state.

  • MazoobiMazoobi Member Posts: 1,339

    Been playing since 2017 when the game dropped on console. Got it on launch day and currently have 4,381 hours.

    The balance is wonky. ATM, it feels like whichever side brought the best options into that match will be the one to "succeed" or at the very least not stress as much. As you play more especially into the higher ranks, you'll feel incentivized into bringing the meta.

    RNG is also something that should be looked at because this game relies on this too much. The map, the LAYOUT of the map, spawn points, killer favoritism on a map, builds from the other side, etc mixed together are all things out of the player's control (except the map [+ basement] due to offerings). It's hard to justify skill and fun when RNG is so dominant. Someone playing blight may find him amazing when playing on Shelter Woods but may think he's underwhelming when they're on Rotten Fields. Was me spawning in Dead Dawg Saloon's dead zone then proceeding to get caught by Lethal Pursuer Spirit mean that I suck at hiding? What about things under my control? Going back to that spirit example, if I were running a full altruistic build, does it mean that I suck if I couldn't last as long compared to the MegHead with a full chase-related build? There are a lot of variables that are in play in every match.

    I also believe that the structure of each survivor team will affect gameplay. Is the team 4 solos, 2 SWF members + 2 randoms, 3 SWF members + 1 random, or a full squad? From my experience, the layout of the teams tilts the match as there is a difference between swf's and solos. Also, we all know how HELL solo queue is (for most of us at least). Decreasing the gap between swf's and solos is on my bucket list.

    Those are what I believe to be the balance-defining aspects of DBD.

  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,114

    I mean, DS is more "rewards losing" than DH, you can use DH without ever making a mistake at all, you can't with DS, if you don't tunnel you are forced to hook four times as opposed to three times to kill a survivor.

    "make the game much easier for good killers" is not quite good, because it means it doesn't help bad killers while immensely boosting good killers.

    Not much of anti loop killers can deal with good palettes, you don't even need god palettes to deal with them, mobility is the biggest problem for most anyway.

    I think few months ago someone did "everything is allowed" tourney and results were 2k2e average with only three killers used, which means more or less game is "balanced" as long as everyone take meta loadout.

    And I suppose SoloQ is broken ONLY because of the matchmaking? I think game is fine (or even still survivor sided) against most of killers even without comms.

  • PukenplagPukenplag Member Posts: 1,231
    edited March 13

    As long as there are more survivors than killers, it's always hard to keep pressure on all if they can always just heal.

    Yeah, in a chase, you will get them, but in the meantime, 3 gens fly by. You just don't have the means to apply pressure anymore with CoH in game.

    I personally found that what's really efficient is Pentimento+NOED+Tinkerer+BBQ on Nurse. During the game itself, there are 2 scenarios:

    1) They do gens fast.

    In this case, Pentimento and Tinkerer may not really come into play, but then, you have NOED, and on nurse, combined with BBQ and maybe some blink range addons, you can suddenly flip the table.

    2) They don't do gens that fast and maybe cleanse a few totems.

    In this case, you get to activate Pentimento, and paired with Tinkerer, you can really apply some amazing pressure. Those extra 7.2 seconds on Tinkerer combined with Nurse can really turn everything in a slug.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 12,687

    1. Getting face camped isn't automatically the end. I had a match, where I ran a Bubba for 4 gens. He obviously face camped me. Now I saw that a survivor was sitting on the last gen, while the others attempted a save. David unhooked me with BT, but went down. I ran straight to the last gen. Bubba managed to slug 2 and hooked David, while I finished the last ggen. I got 1 up and unhooked David. In the end, everyone but me made it out. I piped, got a ton of points and one of the most intense games in a while.

    Since the mmr is preferring short queues over fair matches, it doesn't really matter where you are mmr wise. Because you could literally get everything.

    2. As already mentioned, Ruin is getting obsolete. The new perk is more reliable.

    Now imagine that Boon perks were 1 time use only. That you permanently lose the perk if the killer cleanses it. Suddenly no one would run boon perks anymore, because they're trash.

    Yet, somehow it's totally okay to assume that a killer can lose a hex. Since its "high risk, high reward".

    If you place a hex and a boon next to each other, which one would you consider high risk and which one high reward?

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