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Healing meta killing DBD

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  • FFirebranddFFirebrandd Member Posts: 2,071

    Yeah... at least with the Stay Injured, Do Gens meta, you could bring perks to deal with it and... heavily encourage people to heal anyway. Nobody wants to go down instantly vs a Legion or Deathslinger who's pretending to be Ghostface with perks that grant Undetectable.

    Anti Healing perks are just not strong enough to deal with CoH and medkits. Sloppy is good when those aren't in play but with them in play it just gets overwhelmed. Coulrophobia does exist but only an idiot would keep trying to heal in the killer's Terror Radius once they see you have it. Forced Penance only comes into play if Survivors take protection hits. Deathbound doesn't do anything if the Survivors self heal. A Nurse's Calling is actually pretty good but a lot of killers can't use it effectively because their Terror Radius is larger than the perk's range.

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,759

    Team heling is fine. You drag multiple survivors off generators to buy time for yourself or even have a chance to interrupt it and get a down and injure. Self healing is not when it is just as fast as two people, and downright broken when it is team wide at the cost of 1/16 perks allowing them to bring toolboxes or flashlights and even med kits to make it even faster.

    At least after the med kit buff you could still wear them down or use franklins.

  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,092

    I don't think anything can be called "meta" without perks associated to them, there is no "healing meta" without any healing items/perks.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,892

    Well it’s all about speed of healing. For example if hypothetically self healing with CoH took two minutes to finish that would obviously be so slow that nobody would bother doing it. If it took 2 seconds that would be clearly broken. So somewhere in the middle are time frames for self healing where it’s fast enough that survivors will consider doing it but slow enough that injuring a survivor is still worth it for the killer to do to keep someone off the gens for a bit.

  • AdaezAdaez Member Posts: 859

    It completely destroys m1 killers,that we're already weak.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,892

    I agree, healing it hurts hit and run style killers. But like I said, it’s the speed of the healing that matters. If self healing took two minutes it wouldn’t matter if an M1 killer injured someone and broke off because that survivor wouldn’t spend that much time healing. So there’s a balance point somewhere where healing yourself is fast enough to be worth it but slow enough that it doesn’t break hit and run killers.

  • Ravio_LiRavio_Li Member Posts: 124

    Then just do better in chases? If survivors are healing, then don't do a hit and run tactic? Commit to a chase and hook them?

    Healing is only strong when the killer allows it to happen. Commit to the chase, or interrupt them while healing.

    Also: If healing becomes unworth it to do, we'll get on gens. Maybe Resilience which will make it even stronger.

    Meaning: Stop hit and dipping. Just commit to chases. Or play one tap killers like Billy and Bubba. Or play killers with strong chases, like Nurse.

    Also about Sadoko, she's really good at mindgames with teleporting. It doesn't have to be a hit and dip.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752
    edited March 16

    It's funny that Killers want gen speeds to be slower, yet secondary objectives like chests and healing were put into the game to do exactly that and killers requests chests "Keys" be nerfed into uselessness, which they were and now no one does chests, making gen speeds faster. Now the exact same thing is happening with healing.

    Killer do realize the developers added boon totems as secondary objectives to slow down gen speeds, right? The "only" boon totem worth blessing is CoH. Survivors aren't going to do secondary objectives unless they are worthwhile to do.

    BTW, the funny thing about key's being nerfed is that it increased toolboxes being used, speeding up gens.

  • randonlyrandonly Member Posts: 304

    I agree with everything. There were better ways to nerf the keys than by changing the hatch mechanics.


    And if the CoH gets more nerf in healing % and not overall totem blessing time, I think few will use the other booms (except in purely niche and situational builds), self-care, medical kits and botanical knowledge will return = more time spent on gens

  • YOURFRIENDYOURFRIEND Member Posts: 2,019

    Ah, good to see m1 killers are going to be left to languish. Wonderful.

  • CakeDutyCakeDuty Member Posts: 907

    Nothing felt better as survivor than when 1/2 of your teammates had died and you happen to find a key from a chest, which let you and the other survivor escape through hatch (if enough gens had been done). Kinda miss that feeling of defeat and then randomly finding a key in a chest being a glimmer of hope.

    Though I understand the hatch nerf, I just don't understand why they'd remove it for when all 5 gens had been done. I get multiple survivors escaping through hatch with gens still left feeling unfair for killer, but if all 5 gens has been done, surely it's fair if survivors wanted to look for hatch, instead of going for gates.

  • WarpheadWarphead Member Posts: 623

    I don't think anyone's saying healing should be useless. The problem is wounding is the main mechanism the killer has. If a survivor can heal in ten seconds, that completely eliminates any pressure caused by the main thing killer does. Imagine a killer perk that can remove all the progress from a gen in ten seconds.

    It makes wounding pointless. Killers have to hook every chase or they're wasting time. Everyone's complaining about tunneling, but that's the only pressure a killer has.. Splitting up the pain used to be a good idea, now it's not, you go after the wounded or you're wasting time.

  • AraphexAraphex Member Posts: 507

    Speed of healing (Circle of Healing is faster than medkits) and the amount that can be placed is an issue. Try going against 3 circle of healing on a map with exponential on 2. Killer hexes don't even get to be out back up when destroyed.

    You listed a bunch of perks, but right now we just have COH meta, because all it takes is 9 seconds to heal another player without other perk buffs.

    The problem is trying to balance a game that should never had been balanced to begin with. Killer should always be meta over survivor. But we have so many Exhaustion perks now, plus healing perks, not so good gen perks, it's just I don't think the killer's are getting as much care as they should. Every killer I come across is running an anti gen rush build because that's all they have.

    I think there needs to be better communication with the community than just listening to a bunch of entitled, sore losers complaining all the time because it's lead to Meta heal with just 1 simple perk. Not 4 different types of playstyles as you mentioned. We are the ones playing and we make the overall decision of the direction of the game. I'd hate to see such a great game go in the toilet because the devs are refusing an actual discussion and critique from their own consumers. What makes a great game? The players do and right now it's pretty toxic. I'd love to see more than you or Peanits get involved in discussion. Thus game should never have been turned into a competitive game. That's what wrought the meta healing and other meta stuff that just doesn't need to be in the game at all. I hope you take this into consideration and I'm always open to chatting or clearing up anything.

  • LeeONELeeONE Member Posts: 172

    Important note: I'm okay with healing by other survivors, at least it takes time of 2 people, especially with CoH which requiers 2 survivors to probably walk some distance to be healed, but I am not ok with Self Healing speed, as far as I know, with CoH buff selfcare action will only take 12 seconds, and this is the problem, combination of 2 perks is barely better, and sometimes even worse that CoH, I am talking about selfcare and botany knowledge, especially it's way worse without a medkit, this should not be a thing, 2 perks shouldn't be worse than 1 doing the same thing, also want to mention desperate measures, with 4 injured survivors the bonus healing speed is only 56%, which is smaller than CoH and the requierment is pretty much insane, while CoH requiers nothing, I know that desperate measures also increases unhooking speed but it's basically useless.

    We need more perk balancing, just looking at basic numbers showing that some perks are underperforming

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    You missed her entire point.

    1. Killers wanted slower gen speeds.
    2. The developers gave killers slower gen speeds by adding a secondary objective (Boon Totems)
    3. Survivors are only going to do secondary objectives if it's in the Survivors interest to do them. Hence, CoH has to be better than Self Care or survivors will not do them. (No one in upper levels of play uses Self Care because it's not good, it's a noob trap).
    4. If CoH is nerfed, gen speeds will get done faster because survivors will stop blessing totems and stop healing.

    It's the exact same thing that happened to Chests. Chests use to be a secondary objective but after keys were nerfed, Chests and Chest perks became essentially "dead perks". Gen speeds increased because everyone just ignores chests now.

  • CleviteClevite Member Posts: 4,335

    The irony of complaining the healing meta is killing DBD, when it was the non healing meta the created the current gen rush and get out as fast as possible game play.

    SMH

  • EmealEmeal Member Posts: 1,731

    Hi Mandy, if superfast medkits are a problem would it be possible to do a general nerf to items or keep the strong tiems but maybe add a risk of dropping your item when hit by the killer. (a feature I have wished for a long time.) Should I make a feedback discussion about it?

  • ObservantOfTimeObservantOfTime Member Posts: 209

    "Every killer I come across is running an anti gen rush build because that's all they have."

    This is true, and in the same manner, most survivors in turn run full second-chance perks to stay alive long enough to maybe finish the generators. One begets the other, and this kind of meta has wedged itself so far into the game that killers and survivors are punished for deviating from this even slightly. Every time I go and play more than 2 games with off-meta perks, I'm immediately reminded why I don't do this more often.

  • AraphexAraphex Member Posts: 507

    I didn't miss her point. Seems you missed mine. All I want from COH is removing the ability for more than 1 player to have it on the map. I haven't seen one killer win against a team with COH on 3-4 survivors. I also want to deviate away from having to use the same perks just to have a chance to win.

    Example... I have to always run Borrowed Time in solo queue because there is always that survivor who just decides to run towards the killer. On top of that, I have to run Spine Chill just to signal the other players when the killer is coming.

    I'd prefer a stealth build, but then when I do that, my team goes down fast.

    I don't play SWF so I don't know what it's like, but maybe that's what the game is missing? Communication? Something is off and I'm just trying to figure it out because nobody else wants to.. Instead they want to argue and complain about it.

  • ObservantOfTimeObservantOfTime Member Posts: 209

    Which is kind of a shame, because there are 197 perks total in the game, and maybe 20 or so see regular and frequent use. Any new perk that looks fun, could go nicely with some other non-meta build, may as well not exist because it is never going to see usage. Something is definitely not right here, and it sucks.

  • ItsJesseFFSItsJesseFFS Member Posts: 100

    idk, boons brought me back to the game ... also Sadako is a breath of fresh air

  • HagathaSimmonsHagathaSimmons Member Posts: 212

    Agree about the speed of healing. Hit and run killers are suffering because we can’t consistently keep them injured enough to keep pressure up.

  • megswifeymegswifey Member Posts: 822

    I think boons should have tokens or something like you can only set up a boon on one totem twice. I don't know if it would make much of a difference, but I think it could be helpful!

  • MetzuMetzu Member Posts: 84

    No matter how you spin it, they are balancing the game around the level of casual players which is a fundamental flaw. That combined with their "MMR" was a huge mistake they made and it shows in the player count and satisfaction/feedback from experienced players.

    Circle of healing combined with the fact that some totem spawns are absolutely horrendous to get to, being able to infinitely reboon those totems and have multiple boons up at the same time is a disaster. If you think having the ability to constantly heal slows down gens, you're just wrong and probably don't play the game at anything resembling average and above average gameplay. Not every killer has the ability to down survivors fast like Nurse and Blight to be able to stay competitive. O wait, Nurse has the lowest kill rate, my bad.

  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,092

    Probably we have to go punishment way I guess, those two secondary objectives are almost akin to win button, aka main objective.

    Like, if side objective give you advantage which makes generators more efficient, what's the point of it? it's basically main objective with different skin.

  • anarchy753anarchy753 Member Posts: 4,043

    The issue is not a healing meta.

    Healing metas can be great for killers because perks like Sloppy Butcher and Nurse's Calling can really shine in stalling the match out and giving the kille great opportunities.

    The issue is that healing in the current healing meta has no downside.

    Circle of Healing essentially buys you time for every use in comparision to Self-Caring or getting someone else to heal you normally. The pace at which survivors can heal and reset the whole match mean effects like mangled are redundant because you can't even bring healing speed close to base speed even with debuffs. Even Nurse's Calling has pretty poor efficiency against it because Shadow Step is a decently common pairing alongside CoH.

    The issue is not healing. The issue is the addition of unbalanced perks with no reasonable counterplay, and the bullheaded inability to admit a mistake and give the perk the nerfs it desperately needs.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    I would disagree.

    1. The chest secondary objective was never an "I win" meta. If you actually looked at the data, previously, keys only raised the chance individual survivors would escape by about 2 percent, which was enough for survivors to search chests. Once keys were basically removed, chest searching became a defunct "secondary objective" because 1 out of every 4 items is worthless now, maybe 1 out of every 2 items is worthless if you include flashlights. This also removed all of the chest perks from rotation too. I bet if you actually looked at the data, you would see that survivor escape rates actually went up after keys were removed, because survivors no longer wasted time searching chests and no longer wasted perk slots on chest searching perks. I know I completely quit and I use to love using plunders instinct. Also, once keys were removed, survivors started bring in more toolboxes and medkits which also contributed to more group wins.
    2. The CoH secondary objective, is also not an "I win" meta. Because CoH is valuable enough to survivors to use, survivors now use their time to bless totems instead of focusing gens. I would love to see the data, but I bet gen speeds have slowed down somewhat after the introduction of CoH. I don't see CoH uses that much in my games, so I'm not sure if it's affecting gen speeds to much. Also, you have to remember, survivors don't need CoH, if it's not good enough to be needed, survivors are going to switch back to doing gens instead of secondary objectives. It's a fine line.
  • dsilvavinidsilvavini Member Posts: 3

    The real problem is that gen sentinel killers without chasing potential cannot make a hit and run approach, and are forced to take really bad extended chases. One strategy that should be viable for them is go to a gen being done, hit the surv doing it, kick the gen, extend chase to force a pallet, break it, repeat the process on another gen. That way the killer would be creating an influence area around a few selected gens, depleting resources around, and the survs would need to make decisions and sacrifices to finish them. In case gens or healing are too fast, the first gen will be finished before the killer returns from the second gen in the strategy. There would be a perk combo that would make a killer safely do that strategy in two gens and have enough time to return to the first gen. I have one optimal test for this case: a Wraith with Pop, Call of Brine, Save The Best for Last, Brutal Strength, "All Seeing" - Spirit, and "Shadow Dance" - Blood. Notice that this build has optimal gen surveilance (the killer can see the gen progression through aura, and is notified about returning survs after kicking by Call of Brine) and regression (200% from Call of Brine). Even with this build, the Wraith will have a bad time if cannot hook in a single chase to get Pop if the survs have medkits and CoH. In current game state, the Wraith will probably have a very stressful game against decent suvs, running between two gens until one of them is eventually finished, and the others will probably have significant progression at that time. The Wraith probably will have just one or two hooks when that occurs. Surprises me that even with the killer knowing exactly the gens being worked, they cannot focus on what it is intended to do: protect gens.

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