It should only affect healing progress while a survivor is injured and not while they're in dying state imo and then it's fine. It's a good change except for this one part of it and definitely much better than the old hemorrhage.
The effect is simply too strong to passively affect the entire game, without any downsides.
Killer already have several tools that control individual healing in the game, such as Franklin's Demise or Overwhelming Presence that has downside, as the killer has to somehow interact with the survivor.
If it would be a effect from a hex perk, it would have a downside and I would think that would be fine.
But that's it, one more tool that will barely touch any SWF (since they control healing cooperatively and can still inform themselves about where the killer is in the game -in chase or not-), while it will exclusively hurt SoloQ, and with a bonus by affecting survivor recovery in dying state.
If it can only happen with hemorrhage, then I think it's fine because you're not going to experience hemorrhage every single game.
I think it'll be a lot more common than you think
Just think about how many things apply the status effect - Sloppy Butcher alone (Which just got buffed as well) is a staple perk and with the COH nerf on the way, I predict it's going to see a big surge in usage. It's also a common perk, not a big thing but worth mentioning.
I feel like your heal progress regressing thanks to Hemmorrhage is fine, it fully regressing, that's the problem. If it only regressed to like 75-80%, that'd probably be fine
You're talking about slugged survivors recovery progress right?
Since that already has a cap on it, you can only recover to like 80% or something I think? If hemorrhage only affected that last 20 or so % I think that would be fine.
Yeah slugged Survivors, my wording was pretty bad.
I always thought you could recover up to 90% progress. If it's 80%, then maybe 65%-70%
This does indirectly buff tenacity which is great imo.
You can recover yourself to 95% recovery actually. That change was made a long time ago to help against a slugging meta. Originally, before that change, you could recover to I believe 90% (though it could've been as low as 85%).
I wasn't sure of the exact amount, thanks for the clarification
So if it's 95%, then 80% seems like a good amount or regression imo
Seems fair to me
Alternatively maybe they could add this recovery regression idea to a perk instead, like Knock-out for example.
so survivors are allowed to have anti-slug perks like unbreakable and boon:exponential but killers are not allowed to have perks that empower slugging? talk about double standards.
sure but the killer is using a perk or an add-on to apply hemorrhage. its not free like before.
This isn't double standards, killers have powers and playstyles that empower, encourage and reward slugging
Anti-slugging perks wouldn't exist if slugging as a viable strat didn't exist. Just how DS wouldn't exist if tunnelling wasn't a viable and effective tactic.
The intention is to critique a new mechanic that has been added. No more, no less. I have no intentions in engaging in pointless survivor vs killer bickering. It solves nothing and the devs aren't gonna listen to it.
Buffing Knockout by allowing it to regress the Recovery progress down to 80%, (and then nerfing Hemorrhage by not allowing it to regress the Recovery progress) seems like a good idea.
Pet peeve but please combine all the Status Effects that Knockout grants and call it the Concussed Status Effect. That'd make it easier to make other Perks/Add-ons that affect Survivors in the same way Knockout does, and it would make my concept look better because I won't have to add a little explanation for it
I have something I wanted to point out. By forcing survivors to stay still in order not to lose recovery progress, they can't avoid the birds that fly above their heads when they are idle. Not even sure why survivors in the dying state are being punished for not moving, since there really isn't much else for them to do. So I'd say either get rid of the idle birds mechanic for survivors in the dying state, or remove the recovery regression mechanic from hemorrhage.
Also a point I didn't even think about
How long does it take for an AFK crow to spawn? It's like a minute and a bit right?
I don't think AFK crows spawn while you are actively recovering/holding down the button. But it is 60 seconds for the first one to show up.
When you equip a healing perks like circle of healing, healing applies to survivors that are slugged. in current patch notes, it is consistent with developer patch notes that it regresses when not being healed. Their reasoning for the change was that hemorrhage was considered a useless status effect. Now it is no longer useless status effect. So yes, hemorrhage perks like sloppy butcher and blood echo(Oni) perk empower slugging.
I imagine they're also doing the changes because many killer players are complaining about healing so this does hurt 99% med-kit gameplay.
I've had it happen to me before I think? I remember seeing AFK crows on myself while I was holding m1
Yes but that doesn't mean it's a healthy change for it to apply to survivors who are slugged because when you are in the dying state, you have only 2 options. Recover or move, hemmorage makes recovering pointless unless you have an anti-slugging perk or there's a teammate nearby.
Killer players are complaining about healing, yes - which is why I think hemmorage applying to injured survivors and their healing makes perfect sense and is fine. I don't think making slugging easier and harder to deal with is a good idea.
Yeah, that would be a no from me as well. Slugging is a perfectly viable strategy as is. This is just gonna encourage 4-man slug speedruns and make unbreakable or tenacity mandatory.
I respect the will to experiment, but this feature should never make it to live servers.
Another inconsistancy I just realised
If "recovering" is counted as a healing action, then why is it not affected by mangled?
Survivors healing a dying survivor who is mangled is slowed down but normal recovery isn't affected by it. (Which is as it should be because base recovery is slow enough on its own)
Recovery speed isn't treated as self healing. It's also why botany knowledge or other healing perks don't improve the recovery speed.
A dying survivor recovering and another survivor healing a dying survivor both increase the dying survivor's healing progress.
Oh yeah I understand why it's like that
But it seems weird to me that there's a distinction in the case of mangled/hemorrhage yk?
I don't. Recovering from dying state doesn't get affected by healing perks but also can't fully heal yourself to injured without certain perks.
Mangled does affect dying state survivors tho as another survivor healing then will be healing them slower. So it's not like Hemorrhage is being applied unfairly to dying state survivors.
Boon: Exponential, Tenacity, We're Gonna Live Forever, and to a lesser extent Desperate Measures all get more presence in the limelight, which seems rad. Tenacity in particular entirely nullifies the impact of hemorrhage on the ground.
The main impact I see is that survivors will not be able to recover and then go crawling for help, but they'll also know this is the case and instead crawl to safety first before recovering, or just wait for help to come find them. It'll definitely give killers more control in those tense scenarios, though.
Yeah you're right abt that
You're going to see more Unbreakables and Soul Guards. Probably the two most popular anti-slugging perks out there
Have you guys taken into account how Hemorrhage interacts with perks liked Solidarity and Resurgence? In Resurgence's case it basically means you have to heal under hook and risk the killer coming back or leave the hook and have a perk that did nothing.
Not that any of these perks are popular in general, but it's still a pretty heavy nerf to perks that are already considered below average and too situnational