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What is making Killer not Fun?

MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

When I play Killer, I generally have fun. I play a range of killers, Plague, Sadako, Freddy, Twins, Trapper, Hag. When I play, I play really lax and will intentionally let survivors go if they are not good at the game. When that happens, I usually try and 2 hook each survivor, then just chase them down and hook them.

If the survivors are good or better than me, I'll try and get kills. I don't resort to face camping or tunneling-off-hook-till-dead, for me personally, I don't feel that is a win at that point. (Although I did do a test where I face-camped exclusively with Leatherface for 40 games to test to see if it's a valid strategy).

For me, what makes killer unfun is definitely face-camping, I had absolutely no fun doing that until the survivors became so good that I was averaging about 2 kills per game which happened about after 30 straight games face camping, before I got around a 3.2 average kill rate.

Aside from face-camping making the game boring for me, I also found that I really hating playing killer when the teams I went against were so much better than me that I couldn't do anything against them. Flashlight saves, perfect looping, it's a pain in the a*s and is stressful.

Those games don't happen often though. Usually I'm paired with survivors pretty close to my level or lower than my level.

---

TLDR

When I face-camp.

When I face teams much-much better than me.

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Comments

  • tippy2k2tippy2k2 Member Posts: 3,308

    There are usually two things that makes the killer games super unfun; games that are way too easy and games that are way too hard

    Unfortunately for DBD, the vast vast vast majority of killer games seem to be one of those two.

    Someone is getting obliterated in my games for the most part. No matter which side it is, that's not a ton of fun.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoonMikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 2,582

    Baby survivors. I am feeling bad for them because clearly we had not same skills.


    New players should never face with exp players.

  • Xei86XXei86X Member Posts: 31
    edited April 8

    What makes killer unfun for me but i still play it and enjoy killer but just will list the stuff that bugs me about killer play.



    1] when the team is full on SWF and have near perfect communication. (sounds like your flashlight situation or close to it).

    2] Generators finish too fast (3 mins) When a game should last at least 10 mins id say for such a game like this.


    3] Meta perks all around need a good looking at. I know my opinion isn't common but overperforming meta perks should be looked at to match more average perks. This game isn't completive and it needs rely on your own skill over clutches in perk performance (so much of the meta atm). Im a killer main and ill take the hit as long as survivors perks are looked at as well. Much of the killer perks are used to counter the SWF and other bs the SWF pull off.


    4] I never face camp since its stale anyway *but man sometimes you really are forced to with the good swf teams.. no joke there is a reason killer do ######### like this (of course super new people as well)... the swf teams are just that oppressive you have to. This goes along with slugging as well.. only viable thing i could do sometimes is slug since they picked their partners up in seconds as they literally leave all gens to save. I can say i only had one of these extreme swf which i imagine is up in the competitive area of dbd which i never want to touch again



    I Love being killer but it can be a nightmare. I think my opinion is common on the balance of the game but may as well list my opinions on your post. For now just tank your mmr and just kinda gauge if your team looks good or not and enjoy your killer experience. Im not a sweaty killer at all and let them out a lot but its my choice over being completely gamed like an idiot when the games all about the killer hunting people (not the other way around)

  • egg_egg_ Member Posts: 832

    Being sent to an indoor map while I'm alt tabbed (so I didn't see the offering and couldn't dodge the game). That's the only time I feel like uninstalling the game

  • CoffeecrashingCoffeecrashing Member Posts: 229

    What makes killer unfun is when survivors are using voice comms and calling out the killer’s location, so the survivors can hide early. So the killer sometimes patrols all the generators, and doesn’t find anyone, specifically because of voice comms. It also means that if the survivors are using voice comms, the killer is stuck camping on open maps, because if the killer leaves the hook, the hooked survivor will call out the killer’s location to everyone so they can hide early. The game isn’t balanced around voice comms, and when people use voice comms to gain an advantage, it’s not fun for the other side.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 12,045

    When survivors lecture/belittle the killer after the match.

  • EntitySpawnEntitySpawn Member Posts: 3,364

    Playing at off peak time (the only time I can) I'm forced into long lobbies and very hard games back to back.

    Theres very little room to have fun, doesnt matter which killer I play I'll verse the same people just because it's off peak time.

    The fact I'm limited to my server during off peak hours hurts the games for me but I cant control that, other games allow me on other servers

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,759
    edited April 8

    SWF ruining anything you try to do.

    Break off a chase with a tinkerer proc to ambush a guy at a gen? nah... He gets an early warning from the guy you were chasing.

    One survivor finds your devour totem, all have found your devour totem.

    perks are coordinated gens are called out and organised.

    Dead hard.. Coh killing hit and run.

    4v1 gate keeping and bullying

    Streamers pushing the survivor rulebook and encouraging people to think that anyone playing killer is scum if they don't let them win.

    A community that goes above and beyond to harass you outside of the game on your steam profile and social media.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    Just breaking everything down, it looks like matchmaking is the biggest issue.

    1. Skill levels difference - 7 votes
    2. Face-camping, because it's boring
    3. Indoor Maps
    4. Toxcity on endgame chat
    5. Dead Hard
    6. CoH destroying Hit and Run Strategy (This seems like it will be fixed in the next patch)


  • TheShapesMixtapeTheShapesMixtape Member Posts: 4,185

    For me it's the way killers are treated in the community, if they choose to play for their own experiences and not others. They are intentionally excluded in endgame chat and then shamed on social media. Also, double standards, if a survivor DCs it's funny and justified. If a killer DCs it's shameful. When survivors run meta it's because killers are camping and tunnelling. When killers run meta it's because they are sweaty tryhards who have no life.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayerThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 4,357

    Losing games thanks to Dead Hard.

    Dead Hard is easily the best Perk in the game and the most overpowered one. Losing because of it sucks so much

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,272

    For me, it's map selection. I have a limited amount of time to play every day. It's ridiculous that I can select a killer and randomly get a map or be forced onto a map via offerings that renders my killer power virtually unusable. It's completely unfun when 20 minutes of my 1 hr for gaming is spent playing Billy on Lerys or an M1 killer on The Game.

    The only way to mitigate the stupid BP grind is via offerings, but the only way to even give yourself a chance at a good map is also an offering. We have way too little control over map selection given how much they swing outcomes and the fun factor.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    Trust me when I say that a Killer DCing is not as bad as a Survivor DCing. But you are right, most Killer DCs are shameful while Survivor DCs receive scorn from the very depths of H*ll.

  • CoolConnor96CoolConnor96 Member Posts: 164

    Honestly and this might sound silly but the perk Dead Hard. It's really frustrating mindgaming a survivor only for them to press a single button and make it to a pallet or window extending the chase way longer than it needs to be.

  • EntitySpawnEntitySpawn Member Posts: 3,364

    Skill difference isnt the issue, it's more of the fact beating those people in a 4v1 isn't reasonable especially when you get higher (DH&COH actually makes this worse)

    But like I said in my comment if the devs make the mmr strict and take longer to find games then I wont get to play. I already wait 5-10mins for a few hours of my time so if that increases I doubt I'll bother playing.

    No point playing if your games are over faster than your queues and arent even fun in general

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    I see a lot of killer-players saying Dead Hard. It's never bothered me as killer and I never use it as survivor but there's definitely a lot of animosity about it from other killer players.

    If I was going to complain about an exhaustion perk as killer, it would be Balanced Landing. Something about a survivor jumping off a hill and sprinting away just irks me, lol.

  • CoolConnor96CoolConnor96 Member Posts: 164

    It's just the fact it's basically a get out of jail free card for survivors. It pretty much punished good killer plays and rewards bad survivor plays lol.

  • RaSavage42RaSavage42 Member Posts: 3,292

    MMR has something to do with it... Facing better Survivors

    Perks and Playstyles are the next thing (having a match where the Survivors are just as lax as you are... to a match where the Survivors are "sweaty")

  • N8dogN8dog Member Posts: 505

    Dead hard takes the fun away. When almost every survivor has a "nuh-uh!" Button taking away the satisfaction of pulling off good plays that can be used several times per match it's just not a rewarding experience.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    So you feel the game being unbalanced instead of skill differences, is the issue.

    Let me get you to clarify. If the game is unbalanced, what level of play is it unbalanced at. Is it all levels of play? The top 5% levels of play? Is it only when someone plays Circle of Healing and Dead Hard?

  • JeanCharpentierJeanCharpentier Member Posts: 357

    Will just do a list of short "sentences" :

    • too many unfair perks (4 DH mainly)
    • too many unfair/unskilled loop - it is just gambling at that point
    • semi-infinite loops (when 2 windows are near - not talking about LT though)
    • gen speed

    So we could say unfair maps' layout and amount of strong surv perks making the surv team unfair. Apart from that gameplay is okay even though some killers' movements feel clunky : PH rite of judgement feels weird, Sadako TP feels slow and clunky, Billy's chainsaw end stun is dumb.

  • JeanCharpentierJeanCharpentier Member Posts: 357

    It is unbalanced at a low and high skill level.

    Low skill level = killer has the advantage

    High skill level = survivors have the advantage

  • MrPeanutbutterMrPeanutbutter Member Posts: 831

    The most unfun matches for me are when I’m facing coordinated sweat squads running every available second chance perk. If I play “fair” by the survivor rule book, I get zero kills, t-bagged at the gates, “gg ez git gud” comments, etc. I know full well that I’m not great at killer, and I don’t have the time to play/practice enough to be a great player.

    The only way to avoid this is for 1) a better matchmaking system that minimizes the likelihood that an intermediate player like me won’t get matched against pro-level survivors; and/or 2) a way to opt out of playing against 3-4 man SWF teams. #2 ain’t gonna happen, and #1 is only possible if there’s a larger pool of killer players. So the root of the problem lies in the fact that most people just don’t want to play killer. If this sounds like an infinite loop, that’s because it is. Playing killer sucks because the matchmaking system sucks because people don’t want to play killer. The problem only gets worse and worse in this infinite loop.

    It would be awesome if we could see the data to show the total number of “advanced” survivors who play the game vs the number of “advanced” killers. BHVR will never do this because would it make the real problem glaringly obvious. There are far too few killers at the “advanced” levels, so “advanced” survivors get matched against intermediate and beginner killers so that they don’t have 20+ minute queue times.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    Where do you think those imbalances start, percentage wise?

  • Alphasoul05Alphasoul05 Member Posts: 520

    MMR. It's really that simple. If you want to go more in-depth, you can talk about maps, perks, stuff like that. What made it tolerable was the randomness in random matchmaking. Trying to make a 1v4 asymmetrical horror game perfectly balanced in a game where 4 equally skilled survivors should have a much easier time, even if they die, against an equally skilled killer, is just silly.

    Both sides have a lot of frustrations, and the developers rarely do much to help with it. That is the game and it will never get better

  • malloymkmalloymk Member Posts: 1,286

    Yep. The games I don't enjoy as killer are the ones where 3-4 survivors have dead hard. That's about it. I guess the rare 4 man stealth squads can be annoying too. But they're far less common than the multiple dead hard squads. Easily the strongest perk in the game on either side.

  • FirelliusFirellius Member Posts: 1,980

    Killer gameplay, at base, is incredibly flat.

    Survivors have a variety of tasks that need to be accomplished. Find gens, do gens, keep an eye out for the killer. Find totems, find items, dodge the killer while going for an unhook. Try to help your teammates, open doors, hide from the killer. And of course, there's the all important chase. There's dynamism and variety, one second you're in a heart-pounding chase, the next you're taking a breather as you work on a gen.

    Killers, in comparison, have almost no elements to their gameplay. Find survivor, chase survivor, hook survivor. From there, you either rinse and repeat, or camp. You are -always- on the clock.

    Put simply: The gameplay design for survivor is a TON more involved than for killers. I think that's also leading to killers complaining about survivors being OP, then posting a screenshot of them getting 3K+: Killer gameplay isn't fun unless you are in full control of the match, which is generally only going to happen if you're stomping the survivors.

    So I think that a lot of balance complaints also stem from killer gameplay being flat.

  • JeanCharpentierJeanCharpentier Member Posts: 357

    For the high skilled i would say it starts to be unbalanced favoring survivors when you face the top 10/15% survivors.

    For low skill i would say the killer is favored against the bottom 30 to 40% survivors.

  • StroggzStroggz Member Posts: 178
    edited April 8

    Boiled over, hook offering and then running up to 2-3 floor. You simply just can't walk to hook in time.

    Bodyblocking the hook, so after an exhausting chase and long walk to hook you can't hook the survivor just because someone sat. What is the point of sabotaging if you can just sit?


    Aaand matchmaking is far from perfect, fun games where skills are similar is a rare occasion.

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