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Dead Hard won't be (sufficiently) nerfed because it is too big to fail

TriforcerTriforcer Member Posts: 150
edited June 24 in General Discussions

I saw something someone posted that showed the escape rate per trial varied 5-10% PER Dead Hard in the match. So if 4 survivors (with DH) would average an 80% escape rate, that rate goes down to 40-60% without DH.

That's why Dead Hard can't be nerfed. If we go by kill charts, do you realize that devs consider EVERY SINGLE KILLER IN THE GAME overpowered (since they have winrates over 50%)? Think about that. Clown with his 51% or 52% kill rate is 1-2% overpowered. Clown. Clown!

If all killers are already overpowered, the devs probably can't figure out how to nerf a perk that raises escape rates by an average of 15-30% every single match (assuming 3 DHers). If you nerf that, how do you separately buff them to keep survivor escape rates from getting cut in half?

EDIT: To be clear, I want Dead Hard to be meganerfed. It "should" be meganerfed. But in the developers' eyes, the reason it "won't" be meganerfed is that it singlehandedly changes survivor escape rates by 30% or 40%.

Post edited by Rizzo90 on

Comments

  • Alphasoul05Alphasoul05 Member Posts: 520
    edited April 24

    A good Nurse will bait a DH, making the perk pretty irrelevant anyway.

    People thought the same thing about DS for years, before it inevitably was changed in a way that worked out for both sides.

    But I don't disagree.

  • SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 2,062

    Why do people keep citing the useless kill rates that BHVR themselves disclaimer as basically worthless??? The data accounts for literally no factor separation. Any skill level/map/loadout/etc is all combined. The data is basically worthless.

  • BrimpBrimp Member Posts: 1,463

    I've seen plenty of good nurses get run for a long chase against a survivor without dead hard. So that argument lost some value.

  • MrCrazyCat62MrCrazyCat62 Member Posts: 153

    They did that to ruin not to long ago. It was almost base kit for most killers till the change.

  • dictepdictep Member Posts: 839

    I only see killers crying about dh, I don’t know which forum are you reading

  • MigrantTheGreatMigrantTheGreat Member Posts: 1,272

    I understand your concerns, but out of all killers in the game, 1 killer shouldn't be the only counter to a perk because that killer forces the perk to be used as intended!

    I see where your coming from, but I would rather them nerf and gut a perk, rather than nerf and gut a killer that's carrying the community.

  • SeanzuSeanzu Member Posts: 6,897

    This is entirely untrue


    Last time they released kill stats Legion & Ghostface both had around 54% kill rate I believe, if you genuinely think the devs see "any killer over 50% as OP" then why are they heavily buffing two "op" killers?


    Can we at least be factual instead of making things up for arguments sake.

  • legacycoltlegacycolt Member Posts: 1,258
    edited April 24

    ?????

    Nurse isn’t the only killer that can counter dead hard. If you play smart, then you can bait dead hard out fast with any killer. Dead hard is more like the only thing that works good against killers like nurse who are oppressive.

    Also, if nurse is carrying the community, then by that logic dead hard is carrying an even bigger community and therefore shouldn’t be nerfed too.

    I would agree with a dead hard nerf if some killers and killer add ons get serious nerfs too.

  • catkillsmousecatkillsmouse Member Posts: 163

    Take the perk away combine it with Sprint Burst

    ⛹️‍♂️-Sprint Hard: Shoots you to the other side of the map instantly when the killer is chasing you(as soon as Killer almost hits👨‍🍳🔨🤴 survivor).1 use only unless you have bcoh 💊heal you but only on the other side of the map after you do 3 teabags and use a flashlight save at pallet and also doing a gen at the same time.

    You must do the actions in 0/1/2 seconds (bugged for 6 months and ignores rules)

    👀-The Killer can see you teabagging them at all times.

  • DeathstrokeDeathstroke Member Posts: 469

    So would kill rate rise to about 3K per match without DH? Well that would make survivors quit the game. But I think the reason why kill rates are above 50% and killer still feel miserable lot of time. Is because tunneling, slugging and camping are very common stragedies and those quarantee usually at least that 2 kills if not 3K-4K. But if killer plays more fairly and try to hook everyone before he kills someone he loses 90% of time. So that's when the game is survivor sided way too much. Something could be done that hooking everyone once would be worth it for killers other than making you feel being fair like it would make entity block all gens for 1-3 min or something. But nobody should be hooked twice at that point. Also some nerf for tunneling and camping would be ok like hook timer going slower and maybe making borrowed time longer and ds longer and automatic and 2 time use.

  • DeathstrokeDeathstroke Member Posts: 469

    Also blight and nurse need to be nerfed then. BL and lithe needs buff too. Then we can see bit of variety too and not only sprint burst then.

  • MigrantTheGreatMigrantTheGreat Member Posts: 1,272

    Let me know when you bait out DH for distance and succesfully counter it without using ranged killers(Plague, Huntress, Trickster, Slinger, Nemisis) or Nurse!

  • woundcowboywoundcowboy Member Posts: 1,179

    Spoken like someone who doesn’t play at high mmr. As someone who does, I can tell you that 3/4 run dh on average

  • WesCravenFanWesCravenFan Member Posts: 1,183

    Agreed on all points. Blight is a disgusting lawnmower that somehow laughs his way to the bank with some of the most broken add ons in the game while Toy Sword and Marvin's blood get kicked in the junk. Nurse straight up IGNORES maps. Every map is a Nurse map.


    Balanced Landing is the most RNG dependent perk in the game. Did you go to Shelter Woods? Have fun using that falling down the basement stairs!

  • ThePoliceThePolice Member Posts: 746
  • SmukSmuk Member Posts: 735

    I do not agree that DH is being only used due to adding more interactions to your gameplay.

    SB and Lithe will never be OP and creating such overall bad mood as DH does.

    It lasts for a few seconds. And either Lithe or SB will prolong the chase for few seconds, but not to the point that it will take 3 gens before landing a hit.

    DH HAS many more versatile uses compared to any other exhaustive perk.


    I myself prefer to use Lithe. And I know, how many times I have outplayes or the E jail card could have saved me (or extending the chase) from being sacrificed to the entity

  • ValikValik Member Posts: 1,242

    In truth, it wouldn't change much.

    I play against SUPER good survivors, they're very intelligent and know how to budget their time, distance, health, and resources.


    The problem with the perk is not that it's working, or that it's ubiquitous, the truest problem with the perk is that survivors do not use it the way it was meant to be used.

    DH was meant to get you out of a dangerous position. Go for a risky unhook, dive out of the way - pick someone up after they're downed, make the killer miss - pretend to take a sacrificial hit for your friend who's being carried, make the killer eat dirt for the recovery animation and save your friend while going down.

    But how is the perk ACTUALLY used? In a loop, extend the loop - not going to make it to pallet, make it to pallet - Run at the killer in the open, make them miss and begin chase with advantage instead of with certain death.


    Dead Hard has EMBOLDENED survivors to MAKE PERCARIOUS PLAYS and get away for FREE.

    Survivors should be INTIMIDATED and CONSIDER THE RISKS as they evaluate the DANGER.


    If you killswitched DeadHard today, the next week - survivors would be dying in droves making the same moronic plays. But after they adapt, they're just going to play things more stealthy and throw pallets down WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO. Instead of greeding pallets or artificially extending chases in dead zones, they'd have to be aware of their surroundings and perhaps rely on teammates to take chases.


    If the argument is that "DeadHard cannot be nerfed because survivors are too weak to get along" I'd have to disagree.

    Survivor players are cunning, quick, resourceful, and talented players. Dead Hard may be a crutch for weak survivors to preform better, but the only reason good survivors take it is because it allows them to play the match a particular way. If you take DH away, the survivors will remain and they will continue to make daring escapes in spite of its absence. The perk slot is always open.


    I will agree that survivors need a lot of balance changes to perks, especially the weak ones. But DH isn't the almighty perk - it's just a good one, one that Survivors can - and do - get along without. Besides, it's not as if the perk is going nowhere. It just needs a small change to cut it down to a reasonable size.

This discussion has been closed.