It’s almost like chases being heavily tilted in one side’s favor due to RNG is bad design because it makes skill irrelevant when you auto win or auto lose a chase based off the tile setup. Also just cause there is LOS doesn’t mean she can’t be mindgamed. Read what she’s going to do and play against it.
Still waiting for you to back up your claims with an actually meaningful show of proof.
You are wrong about the downsides of the Nurse. If it's all you know I'm betting you are having and hard time against her. Check some streamer tutorial, there are plenty available.
You are also incomplete for the rest of the killer list.
LOL, I am incomplete with the rest of the list.
Wait.., what??! So because she only has one playstyle, that eliminates her from having the highest skill ceiling even though her power takes the longest to master and is the hardest out of all killers?
Your labelling Blight above her skill cap, because he has his own playstyle and if it doesn't work he can just resort to the same playstyle as 90% of the killer roaster?
I'm super confused and at the same time under impression you either don't play Nurse or you haven't mastered her.
I play all killer's and imma let you know right now, no killer in the game comes remotely close to Nurse's skill ceiling besides Billy!
You realize.......Add ons are there to enhance killers ......Right ?
Coming from someone who declares turning about in place to be the pinnacle of DbD gameplay, I'm going to have to take that as a compliment.
Yea. It's really not. Beings you don't seem to understand that literally everything you listed is counterplay
So, let me get this right.
Running in little circles to avoid a killer hit isn't a gamble, it's 'skillful counterplay'?
Diving left or right just before a hatchet is thrown isn't a gamble, it's 'skillful counterplay?'
What happens when it doesn't pay off? is it 'Actually kinda silly counterplay?'
What exactly are you countering when you do a spin or dive? The killer is going to swing either way, you aren't preventing them from doing anything or tricking them - you're taking a gamble and hoping for the best.
it's no more 'counterplay' than unhooking yourself with 4%. You took a risk and it paid off.
Unhooking yourself with 4% isn't a mind-game, is it?
Spinning around in little circles isn't a mind-game.
If what you describe as counterplay was, in actuality, counterplay, then every single step taken, movement made, or breath exhaled as a survivor is counterplay - and every choice made in a match that results in killer failure is 'mind gaming'.
Both of which are definitively untrue.
all the nurse mains defending nurse like she hasn't been number 1 for years lol
sorry guys, she needs to drop to A or B tier 😴
Who cares. No other killer has come out that has a higher skill ceiling than her. The closest is Billy - who was released before her! We’re allowed to have S-tier killers that require skill.
Blight has higher skill ceiling + no amount of skill ceiling should prevent a character from balance changes
But she already is balanced. When she is matched against players of even skill, she gets an average of 2 kills. It is not a Nurse balance issue if MMR puts a Nurse with survivors worse than the Nurse. That is what is called matchmaking problems. It is also not a Nurse balance issue if DBD puts them into a map super good for Nurse, much like how it also is not a Nurse balance issue if it’s a super bad map for Nurse. That is what is called map design problems.
If you want to contest this, I’d like to see meaningful evidence to back up your claims.
I would kindly disagree with that claim. Lower floor and ceiling than Nurse. He gets base movement speed, five to seven rush tokens (hmm.. kinda sounds like old Nurse!), a power that is even faster in its mobility than Nurse without needing to charge it up, which can also destroy pallets if it doesn’t result in a hit... and there’s always all those busted add-ons, just in case!
Sure there are different techs and tiles you have to learn with him, but just keep bouncing around until you hit something. Someone can master Blight much quicker than Nurse.
And as someone else has already replied, Nurse is balanced. Maybe the range add-ons can come with a little downside to either blink charge speed or recharge, but that’s really about it.
Oh please, you cannot compare Nurse's blinks to Hillbilly back-revving, or Nemesis tentacle strike, or Huntress hatchets, or Demo's shred etc.... for one very simple reason that clearly demonstrates you know nothing about Nurse!!!!
Hillbilly and Bubba can cancel their chain-saws
Nemesis can cancel his tentacle strike
Huntress can cancel her hatchet
Demo can cancel his shred
And all do so without any penalties.
Nurse CANNOT cancel a blink once she starts to charge it (i.e. there's no faking it)
Nurse CANNOT reduce the duration/distance of the blink once it's charged up (which presents problems for her on maps with multiple levels)
Nurse suffers mis-blinks, objects that cannot be passed through, etc, and then suffers a COOLDOWN on top of that where she cannot attack, her vision is obscured (which allows smart survivors to hide), and she has to WAIT for her blinks to charge back up again
So, tell me again how you're comparing these completely separate mechanics as though they're one and the same?
A mind game is not an educated guess. It is forcing a killer or survivor into making a play against their best interest.
No, you're completely wrong here. A mind-game is where you force the opponent to have to choose correctly for success. It's not forcing a player to play against their interest.
As a killer, it's perfectly possible to zone survivors into dead areas of the map... that's not in their interest, and it's not a mind-game either.
As a killer, it's perfectly possible to force survivors to trade hooks... that's not necessarily in their interest, and it's also not a mind-game.
The Nurse is broken because she ignores every defense that survivors have and use against every other killer in the game
I only have several hundred hours playing Nurse so please do correct me if I'm wrong here.
Are you saying Nurse's cannot get stunned by pallets?
Are you saying Nurse's do not get stopped by walls, etc?
Because I gotta tell you, I've been stunned by pallets several times. And walls also present problems... yes, Nurse can blink through walls, but only if the intended landing spot is free. Otherwise you may end up on the wrong side of the wall, or in the wrong place entirely.
So when you say she ignores them, do you perhaps mean that she doesn't behave like other killers in general with regards to them, or are you saying that there's literally no use to walls and pallets... 'cos I gotta tell you, if that's the case, her kill rate would be way higher than it is right now!
Uhh... did you read what I said? Because you're acting like I said that Nurse was anything like those killers, and you'd be right to criticize me if I did.
I didn't say that she was at all like any of those.
I was saying that sidestepping a projectile/spinning to avoid a lash or dash is not a 'mind game'. Plain and simple.
You don't 'mind game' a Huntress Hatchet by stepping to the side.
And in that split second before, when it's a joust of predictions - the level of play makes it a total gamble - Like the Sherlock Holmes poison pill. You can hedge your bets, but it's still a bet. That's my point. Not that they were like Nurse or that survivors should play the same against the Nurse, just as an illustrative example of the difference between 'outsmarting' an enemy with a mind game and using chance to dodge a projectile.
Also, uhh... You do know that as a nurse - you can look down to ostensibly cancel your blink, right? If survivors double back, you can fatigue yourself to keep yourself in position or stunt your distance appropriately. It helps when cheeky survivors double back or when you change your mind about things.
You're talking as if Ii haven't played as her before or something - as if we both haven't played the game for thousands of hours.
All in all, no complaints about what you said - I just feel like you got the exact wrong idea of what I was saying. I hope this helped clear that up.
We're going to have to disagree on what constitutes a mind-game, though.
Forcing a player to choose correctly to win is called booting up the game. You are not mind-gaming by running around a window or standing at a pallet while they do a little dance trying to predict where you're going.
The game is all about making tiny choices, you already have to make the right choices or you lose.
Showing your red-stain to trick a survivor into a dedicated vault that you punish at an LT isn't 'Forcing them to make the right choice', you have provided false stimuli to provoke them into dedicating to what they believed to be the right choice. By feeding an opponent misinformation in the joust, you entice them to play into your hand. That is the nature of a mind-game. Crouch behind a generator to make it look like you lost a DS, you have starved the killer of the basic information to "make the right choice" because you have fed them misinformation. If you feed someone a lie to trick them, this is quantifiably against the definition of "Forcing them to make the right choice" because you have removed the very nature of a choice through misinformation. If you hide your red-stain as Ghost Face and moon-walk crouch by a window when a survivor isn't looking, they believe you're on the other side of the wall, looking the wrong way - expecting the wrong things - completely ignorant of the danger you have placed them in as they round the corner.
There is no 'right choice' to be made here, you have removed their ability to make the right choice by making them believe the lie that you were somewhere that they were not. Even if they were to deduce that you were making a play, but had no idea where you were, how are they supposed to know what the 'correct' option is? You are incapable of forcing a survivor to make a 'correct choice' if you are confusing them and corralling them towards a mistake.
Not all 'you messed up' situations are mind games - but all mind-games are designed to cause your opponent to mess up. However, this is done by forcing a commitment through false information, or a lack of usual information. There is no 'mind game' where you are positioned where your opponent thinks you are, but likewise, there is no mind game unless you are attempting to trick your opponent into doing something specific.
If you hide in a locker, you may have avoided the killer by not being where they think you'd be, but it isn't a mind game.
And once you're in direct contact with the Killer, all mind-games are out the window, there's no misinformation to give, positions to subvert, or expectations to play off of. The killer will try to hit you and you will try to force a miss or tank the hit.
Just because your opponent does something silly or disadvantageous does not mean you outwitted them with a mind-game.
Just because your opponent played into your hands does not mean you outwitted them with a mind-game.
Just because you played into the hands of your opponent does not mean they outwitted you with a mind-game.
Just because yo did something silly or disadvantageous does not mean your opponent outwitted you with a min-game.
However, if you or your opponent - in a duel - feed one another false information to illicit a favorable outcome, you are mind-gaming.
Uhh... did you read what I said?
Yes I did. Your opening statement - in reference to my pointing out that Nurse having to guess where to blink is a mind-game - was "If what you constitute as a mind game IS a mind game - then back-revving with Hillbilly and Tentacle whips in the open are pinnacle of mind games."
Because you're acting like I said that Nurse was anything like those killers, and you'd be right to criticize me if I did.
We were discussing mind-games, and what constitutes mind-games. And I was very clear that for the Nurse to guess where to blink is a mind-game. You somehow then made a leap to assert that Billy's back-revving, etc, the pinnacle of mind-games!
Now, whilst I will agree that back-revving, etc, is a mind-game (will he charge, won't he charge, who knows?), it's hardly the pinnacle of mind-games, and I believe you were trying to be sarcastic in making this point, thusly attempting to negate the actual weight of Nurse's blinks.
The crucial difference here is that with Billy's back-revving, or Huntress's hatchet, etc, the survivor has zero control over whether the killer will perform that action or not. All they can do is plan for an either/or scenario.
However, when Nurse is holding her blink, she is definitely going to blink. She cannot cancel it, and the longer she holds it, the more problematic it can get. There is 100% a mind-game here because you can use your knowledge of Nurse's mechanics - that is assuming you have any - to force her into mistake.
It's a mind-game, and it's a completely fair mind-game because it's one the survivor has good chance of manipulating.
I know what you're saying. You're failing to realise that by side-stepping any projectile etc, you're losing distance. It is a mind-game on the side of the killer, and not a particularly fair one IMHO because the survivor has little influence. Unlike Nurse's blinks which I believe are much fairer.
This is all 'agree to disagree' territory.
I have very clearly and deliberately outlined the differences between guessing and mind-games from an objective point of view. You offer your own.
The definition, at this point is purely subjective.
But if anything that involves guesswork, anticipation, or uncertain prediction in this game is considered a 'mind-game', then literally every faculty within Dead By Daylight is.
She doesn't need a nerf. She's hard to pick up, has a massive skill ceiling, the only reason people whine on the forums is because it's hard to understand how to counter a nurse. It's easier when you've played her before, break LOS, decide to hold w or double back. If you pull off a successful double back you get 40+ seconds of chase automatically. The fact is, she's unsual, but when you learn to counter her she's very risk reward. The main goal is to get distance whenever she's in fatigue. Just pactice and you'll learn how to beat a nurse.
It's not about agreeing to disagreeing.
There are so many points where you seem to ignore what the situations really are ...
The hatchet in a chase is about mind games. Kind of the same as against a blink except harder as the Huntress can cancel the throw. (And retry immediately up to 6 other times)
Aren't you looking at the killer when you run? Aren't you looking at him to know what he will do and where? (If not, you'll get there.) This is used both sides to influence and, yes, mind game each other's next move.
And this is only one example of the kind of mind games involving an hatchet throw.
Plays who try brute force and simple random reactions will get downed fast by a killer who mind games his hits (or blinks). (Huntress is my second favourite killer.)
It seems difference of experience and skill do matter.
edit: autocorrect correction
Literally everything is "agree to disagree" territory when you're discussing with someone who refuses to accept simple facts.
Is the sun a big ball of burning gas? I dunno, it could be made of cheese. Let's agree to disagree?
Fact is, you're saying that the Nurse having to guess which way a survivor is going to go, and having to make predictions, etc, is not a mind-game... when it literally involves having to make guesses based on cues the survivor is giving and completely in control of! Seems to me the very definition of a mind-game.
issue of skill
You have both proved the point in spades with these statements:
if anything that involves guesswork, anticipation, or uncertain prediction in this game is considered a 'mind-game', then literally every faculty within Dead By Daylight is.
My friends, you're saying that the minute decision to walk in any particular direction at any time for any reason is a 'mind game' if it is at all influenced by knowledge of the opponent's actions; which, at its core, is every fiber in the tapestry of this game's design. If your definition of mind game is any action made based on your opponent's action, this is the truth.
No. That's not it. Your paragraph seems to be missing how the influence works. It's not about prediction or knowledge. It's about influencing each-other. Poker? A bluff? Does that helps?
Correlating mind-games to poker is more than fine.
I just don't see how literally every single movement or decision made in the game is so lofty as to be considered on-par with Poker.
You might want to look up what a straw man is
She has a very high skill floor. People who manage to get good with her deserve their victories.
She has teleport, which is much faster than any killers walking speeds, of course she doesn't walk.
It's only faster in a straight line. When you need to go around objects, etc, it's much slower. To be good at Nurse, you have to try to get it right more often than not, because getting it wrong is very punishing.
Again, she teleports.
Only in straight lines, and with a cooldown, etc. It's not a straight comparison as you're making out.
Lmao. Except that I've unlocked all the characters, I've also unlocked at least half of all the perks (I don't spend bp on survs because I don't play a lot of surv), and not to mention that I've been playing since the fourth anniversary, I don't have any experience in the game
Twins, isn't it? It's not very used because it's not strong. I can't believe you're smart (!) enough to ask this question. Look at the Rift. Outfit for Twins, why? Because no one is playing with it.