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To people saying nurse has the highest skill ceiling

PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 10,022

Does she really?

I have to start by saying I do agree that nurse has the highest skill floor. Her mechanics are way different than any other killer since her slow movement speed prevents her from going m1 mode. As for her skill ceiling there are some killers who definitely beat her imo

In my opinion there are killer I think have a higher skill ceiling. The main one I’ll mention here is Pinhead. His possessed chain has a similar summon to a nurse blink and also requires that you hit a precise projectile. All this and you aren’t even guaranteed the hit and have to use your basic M1 mechanics to secure it. This is already more of a skill ceiling than nurse and that’s not even taking into account box management. Skilled coenobites using Lethal pursuer can figure out where the box spawns correlating to survivors positions.

I’d also say blight is harder to master. Map knowledge is essential to good blights players not only to know how to play each loop (Nurse plays most loops very similarly) but with simple things like using a tree or rock to help in a loop. This isn’t even taking into account the techs you can do with him intended or not.

You could say that “these can just be played as m1 killers unlike nurse” but the point of a skill ceiling is mastery of the power itself. Nurse’s power in practise is a lot simpler than these 2 and isn’t affected by maps as much. I just don’t see a case for her being the most skillful killer in dbd when killers like Pinhead and blight exist.

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Comments

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 10,022

    I’ve always thought of a skill ceiling as the highest level to which a power can be used. Sure pinhead is less powerful than nurse but to get to the highest level with him is much harder imo.

  • egg_egg_ Member Posts: 999

    She's not as hard as people make her to be

    And "god nurses" don't exist

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 10,022

    Yeah her reward for reaching the ceiling is by far the best in the game but the actual practise/time required is lower than other killers imo

    I didn’t even mention billy and slinger who both also have a higher skill ceiling imo. Slinger requires more precision and map knowledge while billy requires knowledge of every loop to curve effectively

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 10,022

    Agreed. A god nurse to me is more so someone who is exceptionally good as opposed to someone who literally never misses a blink.

  • PlaysByShadyPlaysByShady Member Posts: 574

    In my opinion there are killer I think have a higher skill ceiling. The main one I’ll mention here is Pinhead. His possessed chain has a similar summon to a nurse blink and also requires that you hit a precise projectile. All this and you aren’t even guaranteed the hit and have to use your basic M1 mechanics to secure it. This is already more of a skill ceiling than nurse and that’s not even taking into account box management. Skilled coenobites using Lethal pursuer can figure out where the box spawns correlating to survivors positions.

    Oh dear, here we go. You're missing a number of crucial points.

    1) Pinhead is a 115% killer. Even if you never use his power, you can literally still chase survivors down as per normal. Nurse is completely dependent on her blinks... and specifically getting accurate blinks to hit the target. Therefore, Nurse requires more mastery as she has more obstacles.

    2) Pinhead's possessed chain, whilst fair enough requires you to aim and hit a target, cannot be equated to Nurse's blinks. He can literally see exactly where the chain will open, and there's a long window where he can look around and aim with it. In contrast, Nurse (by default) cannot see where her blink will land and has to commit to it anyway, with a very short window to do anything about it. And after the blink there is a punishing cooldown where she cannot see the survivors, nor can she use her power again, nor move. Therefore, Nurse has more obstacles to overcome and has a higher ceiling.

    If you want to equate the chain to something, it's closer to Huntress hatchets and Deathslingers rifle where you can just aim and shoot, and carry on chasing... except they're 110% killers so Cenobite still has a movement advantage on top of them.

    3) Cenobite literally gets free slowdown during the course of the match. At least one survivor has to get off gens to find and solve the cube. When this happens, Cenobite can instantly transport to where they are (no mis-transportations, etc). If he's successful at capturing the box, or the survivors don't get the cube, the survivors literally get harassed by chains where it's very difficult (impossible, contextually) for them to complete objectives. Nurse gets none of this. Whilst she's in chase with a survivor, the other survivors are free to complete objectives without hindrance.

    4) Nurse's ability comes with a lot of restrictions... one of which is the inconsistent blinking out of basement. I can't tell you how many times this week alone I've just had my blinks swallowed and been trapped down there... forced to suffer fatigue, wait for the recharge and just float up the stairs, losing a lot of valuable time in the process. Cenobite doesn't need to go through any of this.

    Exactly how balanced and fair were you being when you came up with this position of yours?? Seems to me your analysis was exceptionally shallow.

  • sizzlingmario4sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 2,933

    I agree blight's is higher.

    I think you could also argue that Huntress technically has a higher ceiling if you take into account every cross-map shot that she can possibly get (eg. including hitting targets she can't even see by throwing a hatchet over something from far away, for example). It just isn't realistic to hit all of those all the time so I guess it depends on whether you even count that kind of stuff.

    Nurse has a high skill cap and gets the best reward for her high skill cap in that she is the strongest killer, but she does not have the highest skill cap.

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 10,022
    edited May 11

    Firstly I’m talking about the time/practice required to play these killers at the highest levels. Pinhead being 115% is pretty irrelevant when we are talking about mastery since you can’t rely on that to win matches.

    I think you’re forgetting the projectile part of pinhead’s chain. Not only do you have to place to gateway close you have to actually hit the chain. With nurse firstly you have a second blink and secondly hitting the lunge is easier

    Teleporting to the box is actually a whole other facet to his skill ceiling. It comes with the risk of resetting progress so you have to think quick about which option is better. This is not to mention learning the spawn algorithm and tracking down the survivor who has it.

    Bugs don’t apply to a skill ceiling imo. They are something you can’t plan around or get better with really

    As @Mooks said you are confusing her skill floor with her skill ceiling

  • Name_UnavailableName_Unavailable Member Posts: 498

    Nurse and Blight almost the same. Very hard only at the start but then they are easy to play.

    Hillbilly is the hardest to master imo, And all the ones who master him is from 2016-2017. No new Billy mains which makes them also very rare.

  • Lx_maliceLx_malice Member Posts: 1,392
    edited May 11

    You can ALWAYS improve on Nurse. There's always something you can be doing to get better with her. The only limit is the player. The myth of the "god nurse" is just an example of someone who's reached that point. There's no such thing though because nobody is or can be that good.

    You can play pinhead and hit every possessed chain, I myself can hit it fairly consistently because the hitbox is pretty forgiving tbh, but at the end of the day he can only do so well against a well coordinated team. You can only be so good with him to a point where it just doesn't matter anymore and that's the point where you've reached his "skill ceiling". The survivors equal to his skill ceiling aren't exactly amazing either because he's just not that good of a killer.

    Blight is a way better example here. Eventually though there is a point where even a theoretical master blight will be hard loopable by a good or smart enough survivor.

    With Nurse on the other hand it's may the better player win. A survivor won't just be able to prethrow 20 pallets while their team slams 5 gens in 4 minutes against Nurse. You can do that against Blight though. Against Nurse you need to use mind games and conditioning which the Nurse can pick up on and adjust to accordingly. There will, in theory, always be a way for Nurse to gain a hit in any scenario where she is blinking to a survivor. You can't say the same for any other killer. Will she always get that hit? No, but there are many ways she can improve to be more and more consistent at it. Your blinks can be more precise, you can react faster to the survivors movement, you can make better educated guesses based on your own experience and how the survivor is playing and pathing and several other variables.

    I think the problem here is that Nurse doesn't HAVE to be that good in many cases though. That's why you get so many Nurse haters claiming she's easy. No the majority of the survivors aren't very good at and don't know how to play against Nurse. That is why. Why is this the case? Because the majority of Nurses aren't very good either. So when you get a Nurse main who's played this very unique killer for 2k hours against a group of 4 survivors with 2k hours each who've played against Nurse in about 5 percent of their matches with even less (much less) of that being actually good Nurses, then who do you think is going to win? This is why if you want to get better at playing against Nurse you need to play her yourself or find a good Nurse player to scrim with. To the people who claim that Nurse isn't as hard as people make her out to be: play her against good survivors that actually understand how the killer works and then tell me how easy it is. Believe me I already know how easy it can be to play against survivors that only know doubling back at every corner. Tell me something I don't know.

    I'd also be curious to see how Nurse is performing at top mmr where players claim to be facing her every other match. If that's the truth then the players should have more experience with her which could make the stats go either way. The only issue is the amount of diversity in player skill that is allowed in top mmr so it may not be very accurate.

  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,092

    Why do we care about skill ceiling? it doesn't matter for balance, skill doesn't justify power, but power level against enemy does.

  • BrokenSouIBrokenSouI Member Posts: 6,641

    I'd still say nurse is the harder to use/master. Because she HAS to use her power. Your point about you can use other killers as a m1 IS the point.

    Take a map like lehrys..Even a good nurse will struggle on that map. And while it's not that great for blight either. You CAN just chase them down as a m1.

    So yes, using nurse is way harder IMO. I've also come to the conclusion lately that pinhead is the best m1 killer in existence now.

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,591

    Really depends on who you're playing against. You don't have to account for a whole lot against most players, but there's a tier of player where you have to utilize a lot of different mechanics and techs.

    Only killers in her difficulty tier are Blight and Billy. I play a lot of Pinhead and don't think he's close. The chain difficulty is pretty overstated. An accurate portal equals an easy chain, and there's no point in going for difficult chains.

  • DeliciousFoodDeliciousFood Member Posts: 458

    Well yeah obviously people who are using the most broken thing in the game will ingest copious amounts of copium under the form of 'its super hard guys trust me' to feel better about their ceaseless waves of stomps 'teehee i'm the power role now'. Coming from someone who adepted her not too long ago. Wasn't that hard to learn. Tricky, tougher than the average DBD simplicity, but c'mon, I've played other video games before.

  • I_CAMEI_CAME Member Posts: 130
    edited May 11

    I think Blight is harder. People say Billy is harder but that only comes from the fact that he's so clunky and weak by comparison. Anyone who thinks Nurse isn't difficult to play well has only ever played her against low MMR survivors. Playing against bad survivors vs good ones is an entirely different game. Bad players will just run in a straight line and let you blink on top of them which makes nurse seem easy when you are starting out. The most bad survivors will do is repeat the same patterns which can be picked up on very quickly. If a bad survivor tries to run back at you then they are probably going to do it every time you blink.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayerThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,026

    Nurse has the highest skill-floor, Billy and Blight have a higher skill-ceiling

  • woundcowboywoundcowboy Member Posts: 1,256

    What backwards logic. The 2nd blink being shorter makes it more difficult because it is literally impossible to catch up in some situations. People play Nurse because this game is beyond broken for most killers. Killer players want to have a chance.

  • ViskodViskod Member Posts: 834

    I don't know about these takes on Pinhead chain shots. I don't main him or anything but I like him and most of the time you're going to need to be relatively close to a survivor to get the most out of what little slowdown his chains can get you.

    Sure you can do some loooong range things if you want to poke someone on a generator, totem, or keep someone from solving the cube. But most of the time you're just hitting someone at a loop so can walk around and smack them regular.

  • foxsansboxfoxsansbox Member Posts: 1,859

    To the multiple comments more focused on taking Nurse players down a peg instead of actually engaging in the topic - us 'Nurse mains' don't give two flying hoots if you think she's the toughest to pilot or not. You can have your opinion, it has as little merit as any other low information opinion out there.

    What we hop into these threads for is to prevent the most triggered survivors from turning the forum into an echo chamber. Someone has to correct the many falsehoods spouted in the name of feeling better after enduring your last Nurse spanking.

    And just so you're all aware, Blight and Billy are the only candidates for a higher skill ceiling. If you're gonna have a wrong opinion - at least have the right wrong opinion 😆

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 10,022

    You’re not really acting any better than the people talking trash about nurse mains here

  • foxsansboxfoxsansbox Member Posts: 1,859

    Correct, I answered in the same vein. Hopefully they see how petty it is, as I certainly feel petty for attempting it in their fashion.

  • Leatherface1990Leatherface1990 Member Posts: 707

    She simply doesn't have to break ANY PALLETS if they use her well. That alone is huge. Then put on some annoying perks+add ons.

  • woundcowboywoundcowboy Member Posts: 1,256

    Beating bad survivors with bad killers doesn’t prove anything. Idk who you watch, but all of the killer streamers i know have struggled significantly since MMR has been implemented. Some have even contemplated quitting. If you think the game is fine at a high level, you are purely delusional.

  • katoptriskatoptris Member Posts: 2,430

    Honestly both blight and nurse give me problems in learning them. Lately I got better with nurse a bit.

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,591
    edited May 11

    That argument has nothing to do with Nurse though. There's still a distinct lack of challenge for those with 5k+ hrs (just throwing a number out there) who play killer with the intent to win every game. That's what happens when MMR is capped and the acceptable range is that wide. But I'm not sure what that has to do with Nurse.

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