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Shattered Hope should be a base mechanic, not a perk

GibberishGibberish Member Posts: 877

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  • SaitamfedSaitamfed Member Posts: 1,481

    But even so, you can bless totems infinitely whereas a killer's hex not only can be destroyed but blessed

  • IlliterateGenocideIlliterateGenocide Member Posts: 3,730

    And? killer hexes are USUALLY stronger. and are map wide.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 332

    I agree but I think there should be an option to destroy the totem or just snuff the boon just like survs can break or boon a totem. It makes no sense to me.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayerThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 4,376

    Duh, because Boons are supposed to be a 'Tug Of War' mechanic, whereas Hexes are there to change the mechanics of The Trial

  • Annso_xAnnso_x Member Posts: 376


    You mean like survivors have to bring BT, DS and unbreakable just in case they get tunneled, facecamped or slugged? or spine chill in case it's a stealth killer? Or how killers have to bring franklin's just in case the items brought are op? or bring ligthborn just because they hate flashlights? So many perks depends on what your opponent is bringing or their game strategy, it's nothing new.

    So, you hate boons that bad? equip shattered hope and stop complaining. Be greatful it even exists, considering only CoH is a problem and all boons would literally be useless if that was basekit so it was never going to happen.

  • dictepdictep Member Posts: 839

    You only need 1 totem for pentimento to be op. This new perk will kill boon perks

  • nikodemonikodemo Member Posts: 533

    i like having the option to do either, and since breaking totems synergizes with Pentimento, i think it's fine as a perk.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,056

    Should be base kit.

  • GrimzyGrimzy Member Posts: 218

    There should be a change to Shattered Hope that a Boon destroyed this way cannot be re-lit with pentimento.

  • BenOfMilamBenOfMilam Member Posts: 295

    The difference here is that BT, Unbreakable, DS, ect, are answers to playstyles and not perks. A player can switch to tunneling, camping, and slugging at anytime, but players can't equip a boon perk halfway through the match. Mad Grit is useful for similar reasons; a passive team of survivors can Seal Team 6 and body block the hook at anytime, they don't need to equip perks to play like that.

    Shattered Hope is a prediction based on information you cannot possibly have, versus survivor second chance perks being useful almost every game. Even if you don't pick yourself up with UB most games, you can still recover much faster. Shattered Hope does literally nothing if survivors don't have boons.

    I strongly dislike design where you have to play a guessing game before you can get any sort of reliable information. Shattered Hope is "if they bring a boon, they can only boon around five times," whereas Franklin's and Lightborn are "I notice they have four medkits/flashlights, so I'm going to make a decision based on that and counter it." You're making a decision based on information, not "if, maybe, mayhaps, possibly."

    To be fair, survivors bringing We'll Make It and other healing perks are also gambling that they're not playing against Perma-Tier 3 Myers or Plauge. It's just poor design in general that your entire strategy can get completely countered BEFORE THE GAME EVEN STARTS because someone brought the thing that counters your thing and you're just out of luck.

  • vladspellbindervladspellbinder Member Posts: 273

    The part where they have no idea how the game is actually played and not how they think it SHOUD be played.

    The part where they balance more for Survivor than for Killer because it is a four to one ratio and Survivors make them more money.

    The part where they don't know what "balance" really is or what makes for a fun match.

    There are a lot of things the devs don't get because they are refuse to listen to their player base the majority of the time and refuse to ever admit they made a mistake. Boons in and of themselves were not a bad idea, the execution of Boons was not in and of itself done poorly, it is just Boon: Circle of Healing that is the problem and they REFUSE to address the core issue of what MAKES it a problem; the self-healing. Giving the WHOLE TEAM Self-Care Plus for one Perk slot is far too over powered but they refuse to admit to it and keep nerfing the healing thinking that it'll fix the problem when they could make it 3% speed boost and people would still run it because FREE HEALING FOR EVERYONE.

  • TheShapesMixtapeTheShapesMixtape Member Posts: 4,203

    Boon : Shadow Step, Boon : Exponential, Boon : Dark Theory would be extremely weak if shattered hope was basekit.

  • vladspellbindervladspellbinder Member Posts: 273

    Which shows you just how bad Boons are over all.

    The concept was nice, but the execution was done badly.

    And really is Circle of Healing wasn't so over powered I don't think as many Killer players would have problems with Boons at all. I consider myself to be a Killer Main, I play the majority of my games as Killer and sometimes play Survivor. If the devs just replaced the tacked on Self-Care with Reverse Empathy, that is showing your aura to other Survivors while in the Boon's radius, I'd have no problem at all with Circle of Healing and not mind Boons at all, even if some placements can be troublesome.

    Every single Boon other than Circle of Healing requires interaction with the Killer to have any gameplay effect so that is why they are not a problem, because you as Killer are already operating in their area of effect for them to matter you have reason to be in that area other than the Boon. Circle of Healing doesn't require Killer interaction so you can set it up in a dead area of the map the Killer has no reason to be in and run to it all game and the only thing the Killer can do is leave their patrol area they actually care about to snuff out a Boon that's just going to be replaced anyways.

    My main problem with Shattered Hope is not what the Perk itself does but what the Perk being made tells us about how the devs think. They are slapping gauze bandage on an infected wound and calling it healed. They don't want to admit they made a mistake with Circle of Healing and change it how it needs to be changed. It does not tell us good things about how stuff like this will be handled in the future.

  • Annso_xAnnso_x Member Posts: 376

    I'm honestly not a fan of perks that are based on predictions, but usually their point is specifically to cater to players who don't like going against a certain playstyle or perks (the entire survivor & killer meta both being based around countering sweaty playstyles, when neither parties actually knows that their opponent will play sweaty, even if it's usually a safe bet), i mean there's entire playstyles supported by perks that just don't work if your opponent, or even your teammates, aren't doing what you expected.

    I mean no it's not exactly the same thing but the thought process is the same: you really hate being tunneled? bring DS. you really hate boons? bring shattered hope. There's not much you can do if you don't bring those perks except suck it up in both cases, personnally i've found I don't care enough about getting tunneled to risk wasting a slot on DS, like I'm assuming many killers won't find boons delibitating enough to bring shattered hope and risk it being useless; much like even against four flashlights many killers choose to not bring lightborn bc they don't care enough to waste a perk slot on it, it's up to everyone to choose if they think the risk of bringing a perk that could be useless is worth it.

    I will also rehiterate that if shattered hope was basekit it would literally nerf all boons except CoH to the ground bc they're only useful when they're near objectives, which is also what made them not overpowered. Also, it would have nerfed NOED & the pinhead perk with oblivious totems, not to mention some killers would prefer to snuff a boon repeatedly against a survivor who always wastes time resetting it on the same totem, rather than breaking it so the survivor doesn't waste anymore time resetting it or resets it on a totem you don't know the location of. Like honestly, is the perk actually going to nerf CoH? Not really, you can still set it far from objectives and the killer will most likely not find it. Tbh that perk is going to be useful against boons that didn't need a nerf, and not do much against the one boon that needed a rework.

  • SaitamfedSaitamfed Member Posts: 1,481

    I mean, the killer is one and it's supposed to be the power role... so a hex is stronger than a boon is kinda the point that I am trying to make?

  • BenOfMilamBenOfMilam Member Posts: 295

    You right tho.

    Imo CoH should have been Boon: Botany Knowledge and not Boon: Self-Care. Would have still been a strong perk, but this whole fiasco could have been avoided if that was the case.

  • DwightDwigtDwightDwigt Member Posts: 5

    Yes.

    In terms of Killer/Boon interactions, prior to this perk, Killers had 1 option: snuff the Boon.

    With Shattered Hope, Killers still have 1 option: cleanse the Boon.


    Killers need the basekit option to Snuff OR Cleanse Boons.

    This would open up trial gameplay options/decisions for Killers: Snuff to leave more NOED options/Plaything distractions, etc or Cleanse to remove Boon location permanently/add a Pentimento stack, etc.


    It's a no-brainer decision to allow Killers the basekit option to Snuff OR Cleanse Boons. In this instance, more gameplay options/decisions make for a more compelling game.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 3,774

    I'm not so certain it should be basekit because the synergy offered with Pentimento is pretty dang strong. I wouldn't hate the idea, but I'm leerier than I used to be. That said, what should be basekit is balance to boons on indoor maps and placement of boon totems that cover a significant area of the map but take a huge detour to reach - think upper floor Thompson House, Ironworks catwalks, Badham preschool basement and House of Pain, etc. And on the Game/Midwich/RPD... take your pick. These boons are always lose-lose situations for killers - too impactful to leave in play, but too out-of-the-way to snuff when it's just going to go back up anyway.

    Stuff like that could be handled by altering boon radius verticality, adding cooldowns, or baking in a number of times a player can bless a specific totem. Handing out a killer perk and going "problem's solved" realistically fixes nothing. Because Shattered Hope does nothing unless survivors bring boons, and even then, you're not going to need it in most games. It's like Lightborn in that regard - but with Lightborn, I can tell flashlights are going to be in the lobby. More than that, I can tell if there's just one or two flashlights and I'll most likely be fine without the perk, or if there's four flashies and I'm for sure facing a team that wants to blind the hell out of me. Boons don't work like that. I have no idea if the survivors are packing stacked boons and indoor map offerings until it's too late for me to switch my loadout.

    The anniversary stream talked a lot about wanting to shake up the meta, but creating perks to patch gameplay flaws is a big part of how you get a cemented meta. Players are left feeling naked if they don't have the perk that guards from Thing A and Thing B and Thing C. You see this on both sides already. Now - in this case, this perk isn't nearly helpful enough for the perk to be worth it, much less meta. If Shattered Hope flat-out prevented boon usage, sure, it'd be incredible. But it requires a specific scenario for breaking one boon spot to be game-changing, where either the boon spot is inherently overpowered or the match has turned into a war of attrition. In a typical game... yeah, CoH is probably in play, but Shattered Hope still lets survivors place five boons throughout the trial and that's probably more than enough. The aura reading isn't very reliable. ToTH is a way better perk for countering boons in general, and it's got plenty of flaws itself. It's those indoor map games where one or two players bring a stacked boon that the killer's really going to be hurting for something to deal with it, and saying "you should have brought this incredibly niche perk" is not the answer I wanted to hear.

  • Liam282Liam282 Member Posts: 131

    Should be base kit.

  • ElleGreenElleGreen Member Posts: 456

    Nooooo that would make boons pointless the only new meta perks we have got since ds

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