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This game is EXTREMELY survivor based, when it didn't used to be.



  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,441

    It was always survivor sided, it is just that without mmr, there were so many potatoes filling the "high ranks" that it was hard to tell. Even now survivors throw guaranteed 3 man escapes to help the one dude on his first hook. Lol.

    But to be honest, they have loosened mmr a lot from when it first appeared. They feed you plenty of cans now whereas before every game was difficult.

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 6,555

    Saw someone spreading the horrible untruth that there are only 97 killer perks earlier....Can you believe that?

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,234

    Here's the core issues.

    1. Circle of Healing (and Shadowstep/Exponential, to a lesser extent) are probably too strong for something replaceable. These grant extremely powerful bonuses to the entire team, for the price of 1 slot.
    2. On some maps, a correctly sited boon can cover most of the map and be in such an awkward position that going there to check/snuff as a killer sets you behind, even taking blessing speed into account.

    Boons were a mistake. They simply can't be close to powerful with how impossible they can be to get rid of on certain maps, and how large their radii are.

  • NorhcNorhc Member Posts: 388

    when it didn't used to be

    Yes it did. Even more so. You just didn't realize it because 98% of the playerbase was bad and unexperimented.

  • WaveyTreyWaveyTrey Member Posts: 475
    edited May 18

    I don’t think boons were a huge mistake. They simply needed an ideal balance both sides. For example, if a killer had their totem destroyed instead of just stamping the boon out repeatedly the killer has a option to hex that blessed totem. Given that it takes maybe 5-10 seconds of their time to hex it again. So it’s now like a tug of war type of thing between both sides. If killers gain stacks on the totem that keeps switching back/forth the survivors will inevitably have to decide whether they want their boon, or to just break it. This also takes away from survivors free time since it takes longer to bless hexed totems if I can recall. I hardly boon, but I do remember blessing hexed totems taking a while.

  • BadZillaBadZilla Member Posts: 459

    Non sense ! I used to be a killer main but moving to soloQ survivor high mmr killers are always getting 4k's it's so easy for killer tbh it's not like the common outcome is 2kills 2 escapes but killers are getting 4 kills too much and still crying too? You're just a bad killer that's all.

  • MrsGhostfaceMrsGhostface Member Posts: 882

    Survivors need to spawn on the hook tbh

  • CrowmanCrowman Member Posts: 4,806

    I'm going to disagree that the game wasn't survivor based.

    In fact I would say the game was far worse in terms of favoring survivors. Before the map reworks, there were many maps that had main buildings that were practically infinites. Old ironworks and old wreteched shop were some of the worst buildings in the entire game. Old grim pantry was bad before they added an opening next to the window.

    Then there was old instant heals that granted an instant health state and could practically erase an entire chase. I've had the misfortune of downing a survivor only for their friend to instant heal them from dying to healthy.

    Totems haven't really improved much and are still often cleansed immediately due to poor spawns.

    In all honesty, the game is far better in terms of survivor vs killer bias, but it still has a ways to go before the game feels overall fair for both sides.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 13,230

    Do you want tips?

    These are classic new player issues that are frustrating but completely possible to deal with.

  • InvadeGamesInvadeGames Member Posts: 237
    edited May 18

    thats simply not true. if you can only get 1k consistently against good teams with c and d rank killers thats a skill issue with you.

    Im an average killer and while good teams make me have to sweat hard, they are absolutely beatable.

    Yes there are some things in the game that feel like utter BS but they CAN be played around.

    Either by learning better mind games, predictions, map layouts and learning how to make split decisions to try and optimise your movements or bringing perks that complement the killer/playstyle.

    Ive never played blight or nurse, and primarily play trapper, gf and wraith, 3 of the weakest killers in the game and I have no issues winning even against good teams most of the time, or at minimum close games.

    COH can be a pain in the ass but doesnt prevent you from winning games. Most survs will try to boon again which is predictable and often boon the same spot. anticipating this can allow you to gain free pressure because the booning survs are addicted to booning.

    DH can be a pain but majority of people DH into walls or use it unoptimally. I agree that in High mmr and pro level people yea you might lose. game wasnt meant for pro level play. and all these people complaining about these high mmr play are probably not high mmr.

    But complain about mmr being unfair when it comes to them just not willing to admit they need to improve their skill.

    The game, possibly the worst map for killers can still be won frequently.

    i wish people would stop acting like DBD is a political election and blaming everyone else for things they arent willing to learn to play around.

    Does that mean there arent things that can or should be adjusted? No but so many people on this forum are so utterly whiny because if there is a playstyle you dont like we just call it broken and OP.

    I HATE flashlight with an utter passion as well as body blocking. but i do my best to play around them or when i suspect in lobby such tactics will occur i adjust my loadout accordingly.

    Theres no point in looking at a valid startegy (this goes for tunneling and camping which all have multiple counterplays) and whinign because it doesnt fit your preference instead of being mature, and learning how to adjust a playstyle or build.

    and finally, lets say your complaining about going against these amazing teams. why would you WANT to beat them all the time? just means youd be playing against them even more. once mmr starts putting you with sweats, losing a few games is a GOOD thing.

    Its all in your mindset.

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 7,704

    I think that both sides could disagree with this one statement. A rare feat.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,606

    hexes like that have easily won me games, because survivors didnt really have a reason to go there for a long time in the game. Let alone that survivors tend to look for the hidden totems first, which have set spawns, while totems out in the open could be anywhere and could take an entire tour of the map, only to find the totem 12 meters from your original starting point(if only you ran the opposite way).

    Let alone that boons are much more audible and their effects dont work map-wide either.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,606

    thrill of the hunt: slows down blessing speed significantly, especially on hex totems(up to 48 seconds, thats a huge timesink)

    haunted grounds is meant to protect other totems, let alone that its a bait perk and exposes ALL survivors for 60 seconds. It's basically a 1 minute NOED. Where Iron Maiden exposes one survivor on the map randomly and informs literally everyone else that Iron Maiden is being used.

    Retribution, you do notice its effect, especially when ran together with Haunted Grounds. Very tasty combo.

    Blood Favor, better than Dissolution as it removes the ability to drop pallets entirely, can even be combined with Dissolution to easily get rid of pallets.

    Undying, okay-ish for info, amazing because it literally tanks the hit for a more powerful totem without reducing that totems power(Ruin and Devour are most common, but triggering Haunted Grounds twice in the same match? Especially if you have Retribution too? Very tasty indeed)

    Crowd Control, stronger bamboozle, especially on mobility killers. The only time Bamboozle might be stronger is Shack because you can double vault and hit a survivor before they realize you double vaulted.

    Pentimento, still a strong perk, combine with Thrill of the Hunt, Plaything and Thanatophobia for maximum chaos.

    As for other boons being weak? Well, they are. None of them really turn the tide of a match. Dark Theory only really works if you face a killer with absolutely 0 mindgames and no anti-loop(bloodlust alone counters Dark Theory super fast, and that's vanilla). Shadowstep only really works well on indoor maps. Exponential literally does not see use unless you decide to slug all 4 survivors without snuffing boons first, which is your own undoing as you could have started hooking after slugging 2 survivors(crawling to the boon is so unviable, that if you can pull it off, you deserved the self-pickup).

    And CoH isnt even that strong. Just slap on Sloppy Butcher and 99% of your issues melt away.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 12,661

    Thank you for confirming what i said right before the list: We have plenty of weak Hex perks which require either another Hex or are simply terrible.

    • thrill: is just annoying and does absolutely nothing apart from that
    • hg: lies in the survivors hands when its triggered. Could be when the survivors are already injured. Useless on its own.
    • retribution: again, useless on its own.
    • bf: weaker as dissolution, because it can be cleansed.
    • undying: again, useless on its own.
    • cc: weaker bamboozle. Because bamboozle cant be cleansed + it gives a vault speed bonus.
    • pentimento: useless on its own. Especially in boon meta where survivors don´t cleanse totems. You could play a whole match without the chance to ever use it and even if, you would have to go to a part of the map where you can´t pressure. The penalty doesn´t make up for the time wasted in going there.

    Boons are stronger than hexes. For the simple reason, that they can be relight. If a hex gets cleansed within the first 60 seconds of a match, then its gone for good. Not so for boons. Even more, as stated above, the overwhelming majortiy of hex perks require another hex perk to work. Imagine survivors had to equip SG, Detectives Hunch or another totem perk to use boons. They would be considered far weaker.

  • burt0rburt0r Member Posts: 2,737
    edited May 19

    Don't forget that most hex perks also have additional prerequisites before the effect is even active, like even devour, if you don't get far enough away from a hook and they still manage a save rescue thanks to their perks, you are left with nothing. And before that you had to even find, chase and hook survivor successful without getting denied somewhere along the way.

  • ChusanChusan Member Posts: 137

    all this survivor mains think that this is 1v1 instead of 1v4 :(

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,606

    "For the simple reason, that they can be relight."

    BBQ is stronger than Ruin for the simple reason that you can hook survivors more than once - Tsulan probably.

    Calling boons stronger because they can be relit is assuming their power is significant enough the moment it's active. Here's my entire counter argument:

    CoH: worse than self-care. Self-care can be used anywhere anytime, and can be used to bait a killer to chase you if you heal up to 99%, then jump a window, fully heal and waste a lot of the killer's time. Healing together? Botany Knowledge is better, can be used anywhere, anytime.

    Dark Theory? Spinechill saves you more time and creates more distance through 1 single vault than Dark Theory does over a chase of 30 seconds. Let alone that Spinechill can be used map-wide, where Dark Theory only applies on a small portion of the map AND if the boon is lit. It's literally never worth placing Dark Theory on its own. It's worth playing Undying on its own. The info from Undying alone is 1000000000000x more useful than the 2% haste effect that Dark Theory gives. But wait, you might add, running Blood Pact would mean you can run at 109% right? NOPE. Haste doesnt stack. So if Blood Pact is active, Dark Theory doesnt even do #########.

    Exponential: Unbreakable is better. Unbreakable has the boosted self-recovery anywhere anytime and can pick yourself up without any requirements. For exponential to work, you need to: 1. place the boon 2. be in range of the boon(crawling is slow as #########) 3. not be picked up. Relighting Exponential doesnt do ######### if the killer doesnt down you within range.

    Shadowstep: its best effect is removing scratchmarks. There are some addons that matter for the aura blocking, but perk-wise, the only perk affected is Nurses Calling. Holding W rather than Shift+W is more effective at removing scratchmarks.

    The only boon in this list that is somewhat dangerous is CoH as it has the potential to save time. The rest tends to lose time. Losing time is always a bad thing.

    So how are they stronger than:

    Thrill: "does nothing" except buy you a lot more time. Survivors doing totems means survivors are not doing gens. survivors doing totems twice as long means survivors are barely working on gens. Loses survivors time for working on totems.

    HG: Instadowns literally divide a chase in 2. If a survivor is already injured when the exposed status effect is activated, and you dont use that effect to your interest, its not Haunted Grounds being useless, its YOU not using it. HG has the potential to end games, that alone makes it extremely useful.

    Retribution: Yes and no, survivors are oblivious when blessing totems too, meaning you can catch them off-guard. Thats a free hit. Free hits make perks worth running. Are there better perks than it? Sure, but that doesnt make Retribution useless.

    Blood Favour: You're objectively wrong. Dissolution has massive downsides: there needs to be a terror radius. So if a survivor is oblivious, or you are undetectable, Dissolution has no effect. Blood Favour has an effect everytime a survivor loses a health state. It's also an effect that causes survivors to stop doing gens and look for totems. Dissolution can be very powerful, but survivors arent gonna let go of gens when its active. In fact, they will very likely keep sitting on gens.

    Undying: Gives tons of info. Also makes survivors scared of NOED if there is no other hex active, so they waste a lot of time searching and cleansing every single totem. Again, time wasted not doing gens.

    CC: Literally forces a survivor to keep changing their loops to something else, makes survivors search for the totem, meaning they are going to let go of gens. It also means that only 1 survivor can go through the window for a shortcut as long as the totem is active. Bamboozle only blocks a window AFTER you were physically there. The increased vaultspeed only really matters on loops with very little vision on the killer, like Killershack(or myers), any other time, and the vaultspeed doesnt really matter. While CC never requires you to vault as long as its active.

    Pentimento: yeah, on its own, right now, its not amazing, but it has amazing synergy with things like Plaything or just normal Undying(again, solo undying makes people think you're trying to run NOED Undying, cleansing a lot of totems, if not all) and in the next update will literally gain a perk to destroy boons so you can place pentimento in the same moment.

    Then here's the real kicker: a hex often forces a survivor to cleanse a totem, thats 1 survivor not working on gens. Meaning for the duration of them looking for the totem, cleansing the totem and running back to a gen, it's as if you killed 1 survivor. If a totem gets removed within the first 60 seconds, and you are chasing a survivor, thats at best 2 gens being worked at. So having a hex, ANY hex, will often give survivors the idea you're planning something else. And if you're not running very obvious perks, they will cleanse that hex to try and prevent a combo you're trying.

    Where with Boons, the less they are relit, the more powerful their effects are. Survivors relighting the same boon 7 times in a single match, is survivors effectively destroying 7 dull totems. If they used Exponential 2 times on that boon, total waste. If they used CoH and healed 10 times, total waste. If they replaced Dark Theory or Shadowstep 7 times, they lose the game. Relighting boons is not a good thing. 14 seconds is 95% of a heal. So setting up CoH for a single heal and then having it snuffed is so much wasted time.

  • BadZillaBadZilla Member Posts: 459

    You gotta be kidding me... I didn't escape at all tonight 5 matches so far I only faced sweaty tunneling killers that proxy hooks and so many survivors disconnected in rage stop playing the victim card .. SoloQ is way worst.

  • VampwireVampwire Member Posts: 528

    Pre-rework DS, Vacuums, Exhaustion recharging while running, Infinite loops, Horrible killer balance, A plethora of abusable bugs, Perma Sabo...

    I could go on. The only really terrible thing we have rn is a couple of maps being stupid (Badham/The Game) and COH. Both of which are countered by having a power that shreds pallets, insta downs, mobility, stealth and game knowledge with inventive plays. The majority of the cast has at least one of these. The only thing I'd say is uncounterable or really busted is DH. Which still isn't completely true as you can try to catch someone off guard where their DH doesn't matter. Or use your insta-down power to deny them DH for their first life. OR zone them into a bad position.

    DbD is no where near it's worse state. Those 3 core issues are about it atm. You're never helpless as killer and usually have a chance to make a come back unless the survivors play well. If they do that they should escape. Killer has probably been it's most playable than it has been ever. It's not perfect, but far better.

  • Hes1hpHes1hp Member Posts: 59


  • SuperSaiyan4GTSuperSaiyan4GT Member Posts: 144

    That's your argument for this game being survivor sided? I think you need to sit down and weigh the scales if you think it's survivor sided

  • DBD_PinheadDBD_Pinhead Member Posts: 762

    FINALLY someone addresses the inherent bias around totems and the broken Boon mechanic. Because apparently the devs won't. Just like a lot of things. There is ZERO counterplay when you can lose whole perks without any way to bring it back outside 2 perks and splitting your loadout to accommodate that. Yet Boons can inherently resurrect. You'll play against 16 perks (half of those meta more than likely) but the game will often place yours out in the open next to the damn main objectives of the opposition and often in full view of them. How is that not surv sided?

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,606

    Oh no, I just applied your logic. You might not have named the perks, but it most certainly is your logic applied to those perks in mind.

    • 1. double bloodpoints is not gonna do ######### for you in the game. So no.
    • 2. If SC stacked with CoH, a heal would take 64 seconds, thats not a good thing. BK could be stacked, sure, but when were we talking about stacking effects? Thats right, we were not. As for CoH being faster than SC? No, both SC and CoH reduce self-healing by 50%. You're literally lying here.
    • 3. Oh, but that doesnt matter you said boons were stronger than hexes. That includes Dark Theory.
    • 4. Again, assuming all the requirements are filled. I have ran all boons 10 games in a row, Exponential was only used once, against a slugging Nurse. My teammates ran Unbreakable, that was used 4 times in the same span of games. The fact that exponential has so little usage makes it objectively worse. You could turn Dead Hard into a Boon, make it available for all survivors in that small area, and it would be worse than Head-On.
    • 5. Oh, it is. Walking replenishes exhaustion, running does not. You would want to stand still and walk in chase as much as you can so you can use an exhaustion perk twice. The only time you run is to maximize distance. If you've already reached maximum distance in a loop, you might aswell walk away untill the killer spots you walking away. If they dont spot you walking away, they would have to search you again, giving you valuable time to recover.
    • 6. I just repeated the fact that SC is objectively better.
    • 7. seeing a burning totem makes survivors want to check, if it's thrill, they often want it gone in case it's protecting another hex, if they see no other hex and there is still 1 unknown perk, they would have to consider NOED, and to counter NOED as of today, is to cleanse all totems or hope you get lucky after the final gen. But with your own logic of extra BP: Thrill also does this. Let alone that Thrill also gives you info on how many totems are still standing, even after its destroyed. So its still good info on how determined survivors are on getting rid of totems.
    • 8. You literally get a notification of where the survivor is who broke the totem. And since you were talking about combining BK and CoH: HG and Retribution is a killer combo. HG and Infectious Fright is too. HG and Undying. HG and Bitter Murmur. HG and BBQ. HG and Discordance, HG and Lethal Pursuer is quite good too.
    • 9. You misinterpreted my statement, oblivious means they do not hear you coming. They could have started blessing a totem. If you also have Undying, you can see them working on a dull totem and approach them without them knowing you're coming. 14 seconds means 64.4 meters of distance. Which on most maps is practically covering the entire map.
    • 10. BF would be far too powerful to not be a hex. And yeah, it can be gone the first 60 seconds of the map, but it could also last the entire game. High risk, high reward. Let alone that survivors wouldnt cleanse a hex if the effect wasnt powerful in the first place.
    • 11. Great, that's 0 gen progression for 14 seconds. Excluding the time it takes for survivors to find all those totems in the first place. You're assuming all totems are found already and the survivors are ready to cleanse them at the same time. Thats a lot of time not working on gens. 2 survivors on 1 gen for 14 seconds would be 30% of the gen done. Thats more time saved than Pop, with 0 requirements. Sure, Pop can be repeated, but hooking survivors while gens are still kickable becomes less and less common in higher MMR. So in this scenario, Undying alone does more than Pop.
    • 12. So? High risk, high reward. That is the essence of Hexes. The fact that people would spend time cleansing any totem at all means that people were not working on gens. Thats beneficial.
    • 13. Yeah, but so is Dark Theory, Shadowstep or Vigil, or Streetwise, or Buckle Up, or Open Handed, or Soul Guard(its power relies on hexes standing), Built To Last, Breakout, BT(you have to unhook people for it to work, you cant always unhook people), flip-flop, any means neccesary(most pallets get broken ASAP), Ace in the Hole, Lucky Break(60 seconds of being injured happens very early in game, removing the perk forever), DS(only useful if you're being tunneled, if you're not being tunneled and still have DS after 20 seconds, you've wasted time), Distortion(4 reads and its gone), Poised. Not talking about the impracticality of perks that basically make them useless. For every Exponential that has seen at least a single use, I have seen 3 ruins carry a killer to victory.

    And yes, killers should be comfortable running less perks. You should start tracking how often perks you bring do not have any value at all. Scourge hooks? with bad RNG, you never get to use it. Pop? If gens are finished or have 0 progression, its literally useless. BBQ? Survivors working on gens can literally have their aura's hidden from you. Corrupt Intervention? Survivors have a chance of not even spawning near those gens and finishing 3 gens before even realizing you brought Corrupt. Killers mainly win games through using their abilities and addons. If having to chose between 0 addons and 0 perks, a lot of killers would prefer 0 perks. Perks are there to either give a shortcut or stall the game. Stalling the game doesnt matter if you cannot kill a player before the gate is powered. Shortcuts only work if you're already in a position where you can win without the shortcut, the shortcut just makes that win easier to access. Perks are there to amplify your gameplay, they are not, and should not, be neccesary for your victories. Why do you think Ruin is picked 50% of the games in highest MMR where Pop is only used 25% of the games? Because Ruin guarantees value. Either you get to bully survivors off gens and gain a ton of pressure, or survivors waste time cleansing a totem. Survivors are forced to cleanse Ruin to progress consistently. Pop has 0 guarantee to be used. You can go for a 5 gen chase with survivors constantly tanking hits and healing up for their teammates to tank another hit, then down a survivor. What value does Pop have here?

    For survivors, if they run DS, Unbreakable and Self-Care, but do not get tunneled, slugged or are always healed by teammates, thats survivors practically only using 1 perk for 10+ games in a row, untill they do get slugged, or untill they do get tunneled, or untill they are not being healed by teammates. Thats 3 perk slots NOT BEING USED for 10 games.

    You have to be comfortable with running 0 perks on both sides, because you are not guaranteed any value. The only perks in the game that have guaranteed value are hex perks. Sure, some perks are quite powerful and relatively easy to trigger, but even though Iron Grasp would guarantee a lot of hooks, people still rather run Ruin. Because that 14 second cleanse at the start of the game can be the difference between 2 gens and 1 hook and 3 gens and 0 hooks.

  • DangerScouseDangerScouse Member Posts: 945

    Solo survivor is easy mode. You don't need decent teammates to loop the killer with endless pallets and windows.... and of course the 'ol 3rd Health State that is Dead Hard.

    Sure if "nobody" does gens that's annoying, but even solo potatoes know how to gen rush, and they complete so quickly, it's hardly ever an issue.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 12,661

    Look, i see you put a lot of work into this. But the perks don´t work like you think they work. Starting with SC stacking with CoH. I stronly recommend you try this out. No, it doesn´t take 64 second to heal with SC inside the CoH radius. The stacking means that the heal is much, much shorter than using each of them alone. SC also has a longer healing period than CoH, despite the "50% healing reduction". Here is a video that shows them side by side.

    Oh and i won´t bother commenting on the rest of what you wrote, because according to you i´m a lyer. Which isn´t really a good way to start a discussion.

    Anyway, have fun!

  • The_KrapperThe_Krapper Member Posts: 2,372

    These people talking about boon spawns have me dead, you do realize it's hidden because the survivor put it there right? Not because it spawns like a hex, and totems in general have always been in obvious places that's been an issue from day one lol the old crotus prenn asylum comes to mind immediately where it literally spawned just out in the open with no walls, rocks or anything around it was like a light tower in the middle of nowhere, and if I'm being honest even to this day ALL totem spawns are still easy to find so the boon would be just as easy to find as a hex, the issue is nobody wants to waste time to break the boon unless they have to because gens are most likely already done where the boon is placed so what reason is there to go hunting where the gens are done?

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