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https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/194208

Since you ASKED for it! Making Survivors MORE than just SKINS

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Comments

  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300

    @weirdkid5 said:
    These are all pretty good, aside from Feng. Her's should be something like vault 5% faster when uninjured or something like that.

    That request has come up 2 times I think now. Added it to her passive.

  • DexyIVDexyIV Member Posts: 498

    I would like to see survivors be more than skins, but at the same time killers would likely need a buff in response to these innate passives considering the synergy and stackable effects some of them have.

    Side notes though, Quentin's is 12m or so off of Plunderer's, maybe a bit too powerful. I love Adam's because it would actually make Autodidact somewhat useful. Always loved Adam's perks for some reason. As a Jake main I like the passive you gave to him as well, but how would it stack with Saboteur?
    I'd assume it's multiplicative, so 0.50 * 1.20 = 0.6 * 1.15 = 69%, effectively 19% increased sabotage speed without a toolbox if playing Jake with Saboteur.
    Either way, I enjoy the idea. Always interesting to see stuff like this.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300

    @DexyIV

    The reason why I don't see Quentin's chest aura reading is because chests are inferior to blood-web items. I didn't mention it here but the way I see things structured is as if the code gives you +20m aura-reading on chests and turns things off when it's 0. Meaning if you'd run plunderers on top, you'd have them as addition, not 1 overriding the other. Maybe I can slide that in somewhere.

    Regarding Jake: So you have a base 20% sabotage speed of what is declared as the "standard sabotaging speed". Anything higher than that overrides the 20%. The sabotage boost mentioned right after multiplies with your current sabotage speed, not the standard sabotaging speed;
    (With saboteur; Overrides the 20% and; base-Sabotage-Speed * 0.5 * 1.15 = 57.5% sabotaging speed of the base-speed.

    I hope that explains it (:

  • DexyIVDexyIV Member Posts: 498

    @AlwaysInAGoodShape

    Makes sense. Would definitely motivate me to sabo crap for fun again even if it is just a 7.5% increase XD

  • BigBadPiggyBigBadPiggy Member Posts: 678

    I've made a post VERY similar to this one.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300

    @DexyIV

    I have some suggestions regarding over-all balance and certain tools that allow us to easily shift the bar of balance;
    Possible plan laid out in both;

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/34870/solution-to-the-death-efficiency-problem-solving-the-games-biggest-issue/p1
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/43554/the-future-of-dbd/p1

    As for this post, it's only relevant that the buffs are balanced among each other (and the rest mentioned in the End-Note). We assume something like this not to be put into the game without any opposite-faction response, even if in this case the changes are minimal.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300

    @BigBadPiggy said:
    I've made a post VERY similar to this one.

    Link?

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 7,289
    weirdkid5 said:
    These are all pretty good, aside from Feng. Her's should be something like vault 5% faster when uninjured or something like that.
    Agreed, it makes sense in her perks! :)
  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300
    edited January 2019

    @BigBadPiggy said:
    AlwaysInAGoodShape said:

    @BigBadPiggy said:

    I've made a post VERY similar to this one.

    Link?

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/36249/make-survivors-have-roles-to-play#latest

    By the amount of attention this got, i think we're not the only ones with the idea.

    Some believing this change is meant as a net-buff to survivors because'd we'd believe they are to weak.
    Some others overstating the effects of having 0.15% of a perk for free on your character choice.
    But the majority I think, like us, all asked the question: "What is the inherent difference between survivors", and got an unsatisfying answer.

    Post edited by AlwaysInAGoodShape on
  • Deadly_RozeDeadly_Roze Member Posts: 1
    Great concept also because the killer kind of has this already.
  • TheEndOfSolaceTheEndOfSolace Member Posts: 16
    edited January 2019
    I always thought that it was weird that survivor perks weren't more effective with their survivor aka urban on Nea Bae being 100% and others maybe 90% max and self care 75% on claudette and stuff like that. these changes seem nice some are very minor but a good start for sure!
  • XavierBoah17XavierBoah17 Member Posts: 204
    Man this guy and his ideas are too good to be true. 
  • GhostEuantGhostEuant Member Posts: 243
    I doubt they’d add survivor passives but IF they do, I’d only be down for it if they enable a way to allow you to swap passives between survivors.

    The whole reason they don’t do passives on survivors is they want you to be able to play whatever survivor you want with whatever build. With the suggested racials, I would feel compelled to take Claudette if I want to use a healing build or Meg if I want to be the one chased a lot. People already play Claudette/Meg/Nea/Feng a lot only because they’re harder to see and this could just compound that. Maybe make it so once you prestige that character you unlock their passive bonus to be used by any other survivor? 

    I’m fine with their story being the reason they have their 3 perks and nothing more. 
  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300

    @GhostEuant said:
    I doubt they’d add survivor passives but IF they do, I’d only be down for it if they enable a way to allow you to swap passives between survivors.

    The whole reason they don’t do passives on survivors is they want you to be able to play whatever survivor you want with whatever build. With the suggested racials, I would feel compelled to take Claudette if I want to use a healing build or Meg if I want to be the one chased a lot. People already play Claudette/Meg/Nea/Feng a lot only because they’re harder to see and this could just compound that. Maybe make it so once you prestige that character you unlock their passive bonus to be used by any other survivor? 

    I’m fine with their story being the reason they have their 3 perks and nothing more. 

    That would undermine the idea behind making characters unique. There's a very specific reason why these micro buffs are the way they are;

    They are big enough to give someone a unique character.
    They are small enough to be ignorable.

    Is the claudette really needed when running a healing build? After all, all it will save you ≈ 4.5 seconds after 3 full heals.
    Or are the perks just that more crucial? Say decisive strike, one that can easily buy your team 30+ seconds of time for each survivor alive?
    You can still really play whatever character you want with any build.

  • AwxdrvgynjiopAwxdrvgynjiop Member Posts: 1

    A character's personality is reflected by their personal perks. If our goal is to make them different from each other, why not increase their personal perks? You could use a lot of ideas from the list above (like Meg's SB takes less time or Claudette's Botany heals faster) to enhance the character's personal perks. Only that character could reach this fourth/mastered tier perk, and may add an additional function to the perk. Let me know what you think, would love to hear some feedback ;)

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 2,702
    edited January 2019

    I must say this is the first time I see this suggestion made right. I like how you thought well about the survivors personalities and abilities.
    The only thing I would change is Nea's reduction of fall stuns... this often can open new loop possibilities and that's what makes Balanced Landing so good, giving it to her would give her a huge advantage in chases compared to other survivors. Personally I would change it to reduce the falling sound, which fits with her being sneaky and is more stealth-oriented.
    Also Kate's passive is basically Boil Over tier 2, I think it should be toned down a bit.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300
    edited January 2019

    @White_Owl said:
    I must say this is the first time I see this suggestion made right. I like how you thought well about the survivors personalities and abilities.
    The only thing I would change is Nea's reduction of fall stuns... this often can open new loop possibilities and that's what makes Balanced Landing so good, giving it to her would give her a huge advantage in chases compared to other survivors. Personally I would change it to reduce the falling sound, which fits with her being sneaky and is more stealth-oriented.
    Also Kate's passive is basically Boil Over tier 2, I think it should be toned down a bit.

    Changed the Nea fall-stun-time to partly reducing the noise.

    Regarding Kate: I have a measurement to decide how strong a base-buff should be allowed to be. To take Claudette as an example; her 5% is about 15% of botany knowledge, meaning you'd need 6 full Claudette to get 1 single botany in base-buffs.

    Of course, perks like Boil Over are significantly weaker. To not make the same balancing mistakes, we cannot apply the 15% rule to Boil Over. Instead we need the 15% rule for Kate to be 15% of the power of Botany knowledge. That is why this base-buff in particular is bigger in % of Boil Over, but that's a problem in the perk itself; not in our balance among base-buffs.

  • DS_Gets_FaceCampedDS_Gets_FaceCamped Member Posts: 19

    No.

  • TigerKirby215TigerKirby215 Member Posts: 604

    Every time this is proposed the exact same awnser is provided: if you added this everyone would play Claudette, Meg, Nea, or Kate. (And maybe Jeff) There's no reason to make someone's favorite Survivor pointless after people grinding countless Bloodpoints to level them up and also possibly spent Shards/real money to buy cosmetics for them.

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 2,781

    Similar concept to a thread I started a while ago.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/21841/free-perks-for-everyone

  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300

    Every time this is proposed the exact same awnser is provided: if you added this everyone would play Claudette, Meg, Nea, or Kate. (And maybe Jeff) There's no reason to make someone's favorite Survivor pointless after people grinding countless Bloodpoints to level them up and also possibly spent Shards/real money to buy cosmetics for them.

    Thats only a valid argument for someone that can't measure significance.

    No survivor becomes pointless.
  • GhostEuantGhostEuant Member Posts: 243

    @GhostEuant said:
    I doubt they’d add survivor passives but IF they do, I’d only be down for it if they enable a way to allow you to swap passives between survivors.

    The whole reason they don’t do passives on survivors is they want you to be able to play whatever survivor you want with whatever build. With the suggested racials, I would feel compelled to take Claudette if I want to use a healing build or Meg if I want to be the one chased a lot. People already play Claudette/Meg/Nea/Feng a lot only because they’re harder to see and this could just compound that. Maybe make it so once you prestige that character you unlock their passive bonus to be used by any other survivor? 

    I’m fine with their story being the reason they have their 3 perks and nothing more. 

    That would undermine the idea behind making characters unique. There's a very specific reason why these micro buffs are the way they are;

    They are big enough to give someone a unique character.
    They are small enough to be ignorable.

    Is the claudette really needed when running a healing build? After all, all it will save you ≈ 4.5 seconds after 3 full heals.
    Or are the perks just that more crucial? Say decisive strike, one that can easily buy your team 30+ seconds of time for each survivor alive?
    You can still really play whatever character you want with any build.

    I think you’re underestimating the number of people who will think exactly the way I presented. If people see a positive value, no matter how small, in using a specific character over another, they will feel compelled to use that specific character and feel bad if they don’t. You’re right, the math works out where these are small numbers but the perceived value will always trump reality. 

    In addition, imagine the conversations from the truly competitive group in the community. “Welcome to Dead by Daylight. If you want to heal, play Claudette. If you want to find totems play Tapp. Ew don’t pick Dwight, his bonuses aren’t good enough.” Then the new person either says the same things to others OR quits because they don’t feel they can play who they want. You and I may not think that way but enough people will to cause a problem. 
  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300
    edited January 2019

    @GhostEuant

    Fair point.

    Though do consider this; currently if you meet a truly purely competitive(/high tier tournament) group, they will always play Claudette. You are already compelled to pick 1 character (Claudette) and this time, who you pick cannot variate based on play-style.

    I'd argue that even on this level, it might actually create more diversity than it'd create sameness.

  • scorpioscorpio Member Posts: 277

    This just sounds like free perks.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300

    @scorpio said:
    This just sounds like free perks.

    Must have been an auditory hallucination.

  • lindechenelindechene Member Posts: 69

    Others have said it but it cannot be stressed enough:

    The thread creator has several threads running on this forum that in most cases seem to propose features or elements that would actually hurt the game if they were to be implemented as suggested.

    I have a very difficult time telling if he is serious about this thread or if this is just another troll thread.


    In any case characters should just be for the cosmetics.

    Players should be able to choose any character they identify with in combination with the perks they like.

    Perks should be able to be unlocked without playing a specific character by gaining character independent perk points that can be spent in a more general skill tree.

    There are so many great cosmetics out there. New players should be able to choose the character they think looks cool and not be forced to endure 40 level of Claudette, Meg, Nea, David to unlock those perks that are considered meta.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300
    edited January 2019

    @lindechene

    This thread is not satire.
    This is satire;

    It should be relatively easy to distinguish between the 2.

    In any case characters should just be for the cosmetics.

    Players should be able to choose any character they identify with in combination with the perks they like.

    You can already choose whatever character you want to play with. The buffs are so minor that they generally won't make a difference. If you dare to play with anything but Decisive Strike, Self-Care, Borrowed Time and Unbreakable, then you shouldn't be worried about this post, since picking 1 single slightly less meta perk is already a bigger disadvantage than missing out on getting the optimal buff.
    If you play as competitively where you'd believe they'd start to make a difference, your choice is already stripped away from you anyways; you'll be playing claudette.

    You prove not being able to measure significance.

    New players should be able to choose the character they think looks cool and not be forced to endure 40 level of Claudette, Meg, Nea, David to unlock those perks that are considered meta.

    The level 40 problem is more of a problem with perk tier and teachable distribution than any inherent problems with the blood-web. Killers also have to endure this, and solving that is a thread of its own. (multiple people have already covered bits of it).

    and not be forced to endure 40 level of Claudette, Meg, Nea, David to unlock those perks that are considered meta.

    Upon reading it twice, I'm not even completely sure if it has anything to do with this post.

  • AokiiSenpaiiAokiiSenpaii Member Posts: 90
    edited January 2019

    I have also talked about it in a discussion I opened yesterday. I was also proposing Survivor Based animations. Go check it out if you wanna know more. I dont want to post it all in here again :P

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/44212/chances-on-new-animations-more-unique-survivors#latest

    Post edited by AokiiSenpaii on
  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300
    edited January 2019

    @AokiiSenpaii said:
    I have also talked about it in a discussion I opened yesterday. I was also proposing Survivor Based animations. Go check it out if you wanna know more. I dont want to post it all in here again :P

    Edit it your link. I'll make a section at the bottom of my post, showing all related topics as evidence how prominent the topic of unique survivors really is.

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