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Would Oni be to strong if

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  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,124
    edited June 12

    "But what about casual players? On low ranks, there is already killer domination."

    They learn, improve, and get better at the game like every other game in existence. This game coddles low level players to a ridiculous degree that most games do not. As much as we may or may not want this game to be casual we now have an MMR system. MMR systems do not go in casual games so this is not a casual game. As you balance for high level play all you do is have the low level players losing a few more games until their invisible MMR number lowers until it's at a degree to where they are now winning/losing exactly as much as they were before. They also already have bot matches coming for new player practice.

    "So how you will balance them? Because clearly if we makes all killers S-tier, survivors will be stomped every game. Killers will be god even against god survivors."

    Most killer designs need higher skill caps in order to reach that potential. IE to be hyperbolic for an example, we wouldn't just raise a killers speed by 5% to make them S tier, that isn't requiring any skill, but if you added a Defeaned effect on Deep Wounds now skilled Legions have mind game potential to fake running off with FF but instead doubling back on survivors who thought they were safe while hiding LoS. One of these buffs only gives power to skilled players and one gives it to all. This "buffs" them for high skill players but not as much for low ones who can't utilize that buff.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,124

    No. You can play solo queue without any of that, run perkless and still be the power role against S tier killers if you learn to play well.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoonMikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 3,796
    edited June 12

    Yeahhhhhhh, no.


    I am not against buffing weak killers. But you can not buff them to Nurse level. There is problems;


    1. Nurse and Blight are S-tier killer for a reason. Both killers needs high skills. Casual killers can not use them very well, you need to pratice and learn.
    2. Wraith, Legion, Trapper etc are easy to learn killers. If you bring them to S-tier, people will play easy killers. Easy killers should not have strong powers.
    3. Like i said, killers are already op against low tier survivors. Everyone are not playing this game for long days. People are playing this game after work, school for couple games. You can not expect from casuals to be good players. They have not time to pratice those things. They will just leave game, if game stops being fun. Your suggestion is making game unfun for casual survivors.
    4. Killers have long queues when BHVR releasing new chapters. And imagine if all killers be Nurse level, more people will play killer. Less people will play surv. And plus people will leave game if they can not enjoy with surv. Result = Really long killer queues. You need 4 survivor for match. If you make game pain for survivors, less people will play surv. I'd leave game if all killers became to Nurse level and i am not even surv main.
    5. Tunnel and camp are strong strategies. Even Nurse and Blights are tunnelling when they want. So this strategies would be worse.
    6. Solo survivors have not enough information like SWF teams. You would destroy Solo-q exp, it is already so bad atm.


    We need better balance. But balancing game around Nurse is not healthy for sure.

  • FushionCactusFushionCactus Member Posts: 16

    Oni would be OP if he started with his power. Im an oni main and yeah some games i lose 3 gens by the time i get my power but oni is a comeback king. Oni relys heavily on momentum. Get 1 or 2 downs with ur power, pick up, hook, go get ur power again immediately. Rinse repeat. Honestly devs could change his iri addon to give him his power at the beginning of the game and see how that goes.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 2,649

    Wraith, Legion, Trapper etc are easy to learn killers. If you bring them to S-tier, people will play easy killers. Easy killers should not have strong powers.

    Not really. The people that enjoy blight or nurse will still play blight and nurse. Its more that people that main those killers will be rewarded more for mastering those other killers. It just means that at higher MMR for survivor, you get more killer variety because instead of facing nurse/blight 24/7, you face nurse blight and like... let's say Otz maining trapper if trapper was viable.

    If Oni was made viable for higher MMR, you'd be facing nurse/blight/Oni and well... people would be calling Oni S-tier which he has a lot of potential to be strong killer.

    Like i said, killers are already op against low tier survivors. Everyone are not playing this game for long days. People are playing this game after work, school for couple games. You can not expect from casuals to be good players. They have not time to pratice those things. They will just leave game, if game stops being fun. Your suggestion is making game unfun for casual survivors.

    By that logic, Nurse and Blight are unfun for casual survivors and yet the game functions fine with them being as strong as they are. Casual survivors are suppose to lose to more experienced killer players just like lesser experienced killers are suppose to lose to survivor that loop well and are efficient at the objective if they play nurse/blight badly.

    Killers have long queues when BHVR releasing new chapters. And imagine if all killers be Nurse level, more people will play killer. Less people will play surv. And plus people will leave game if they can not enjoy with surv. Result = Really long killer queues.

    In the very near future, The role that lacks players will be receiving bonus bloodpoints. I highly suspect that Killer-role will constantly have +100% BP for shortage of killers. that's my speculation. If this turns out to be true, than maybe we need more killers and less survivors anyway at that point.

  • pizzaduffyhp90pizzaduffyhp90 Member Posts: 816

    As fun as that would be to instantly start with your power that would be pretty busted the game could end in probably 30 seconds

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,259

    I tend to agree with everything you said here.

    There is even an argument to be made about some killers' powers not being made for high skill ceilings. Like, they would literally have to completely re-design said killer's powers in order for them to to actually be harder for them to be learned.

  • VampwireVampwire Member Posts: 624

    Oni is all about snowball pressure. So giving him a freebie would basically make him way stronger than he already is. Which is pretty damn strong. Whenever you get the first hit you start to build up to your power pretty quick anyways. Oni is pretty much as good as hes going to get for balance in his current state.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,124
    edited June 12

    "Nurse and Blight are S-tier killer for a reason. Both killers needs high skills. Casual killers can not use them very well, you need to pratice and learn."

    That's exactly why they're good design. You said it yourself, the killers win a lot more at lower levels hence why that higher skill cap is a good thing. Don't get me wrong though, just because I'm okay with killers being at S tier doesn't mean I think Nurse is perfect, I'd personally make changes to Nurse.

    "Wraith, Legion, Trapper etc are easy to learn killers. If you bring them to S-tier, people will play easy killers. Easy killers should not have strong powers."

    That's why you design around simple base powers to pick up that have higher nuances to reach their utmost potential. IE easy to pick up, harder to master, the master part being what actually brings them to S tier. Simplifying it down to "easy killers having strong powers" is not what I'm saying, at all.

    "Like i said, killers are already op against low tier survivors. Everyone are not playing this game for long days. People are playing this game after work, school for couple games. You can not expect from casuals to be good players. They have not time to pratice those things. They will just leave game, if game stops being fun. Your suggestion is making game unfun for casual survivors."

    They're not op when it's because of playing bad. "Op" is based on objectivity, IE people not making lots of mistakes. I better statement would be that lower level survivors struggle, that would be a fair statement. However, that's how almost all games work, newer/casual players do really bad because they don't know what they're doing. I feel like the direction you're wanting the game in is the "everybody gets a trophy" type of philosophy that really isn't healthy. I don't walk into a new game or play super casually and expect to win a lot, that wouldn't make any sense to me. I would be bad at the game and would expect to lose quite a lot unless I wanted to put the time in improving, it gives me something to strive for. As I mentioned before they're also bringing bot matches into the game to give a better learning and transition experience. I'd personally also have newer players/lower hour players be put into queues with also newer/lower hour players for a limited time to ease those players in.

    "Killers have long queues when BHVR releasing new chapters. And imagine if all killers be Nurse level, more people will play killer. Less people will play surv. And plus people will leave game if they can not enjoy with surv. Result = Really long killer queues. You need 4 survivor for match. If you make game pain for survivors, less people will play surv. I'd leave game if all killers became to Nurse level and i am not even surv main."

    No. You're ignoring how much higher skill they would require. You're acting like a new "Nurse" comes out and then everyones just playing at a god tier Nurse level suddenly and trashing everyone. That isn't reality. To be an "S tier" killer would mean having perfected their potential, meaning lots of practice and working out their nuances, not simply a killer that moves at 130% movespeed and now gets lots of free easy downs. I went over this before. When I say S tier I don't mean pick up and play S tier, the average player wouldn't be able to play them well enough to be a realistic S tier killer, IE what we currently see with Nurse. Most Nurse players aren't an S tier Nurse.

    "Tunnel and camp are strong strategies. Even Nurse and Blights are tunnelling when they want. So this strategies would be worse."

    This is a mute point and irrelevant. These things are being changed in an upcoming patch and if these killer changes were actually done I'd make changes to the base game to prevent these things as well. We're not working in a vacuum, other changes get made.

    "Solo survivors have not enough information like SWF teams. You would destroy Solo-q exp, it is already so bad atm."

    The average killer doesn't play Nurse or Blight at an S tier level so the average killer would not be utilizing those killers to such an oppressive level like you're imagining. Solo queue is fine btw, I do primarily solo queue and I'm still the power role on survivor by far. The real issues are camping and tunneling that wreck solo queue but as I said before I'd make changes to that as well if most killers were actually strong. Solo queue's also being harmed by the MMR system since it doesn't reward them (ranking up and then improving their teammate quality) properly when they play well since all that matters is if they survived which is less likely with lower quality teammates. This wasn't an issue in the old system.

  • MrCalac123MrCalac123 Member Posts: 1,147

    Oh yeah it would 100% be OP

  • TheArbiterTheArbiter Member Posts: 1,659

    Yes it would be. I will admit if this was a pink addon I think it would be cool to see

  • ProudRinMainProudRinMain Member Posts: 137

    I think they should first make it an iri and give it the downside of not being able to insta down survivors for the first time he uses his power ( would be at the start of the game ) and he’d still be able to pressure tho cause of his speed XD idk what’s up with people saying he’d be “ op “ or whatever

  • ProudRinMainProudRinMain Member Posts: 137

    @Blueberry couldn’t quote for some reason but i totally agree.


    so sad what happened to spirit, i wish she at least got a worthy iri that like for example ( removes the whoosh inside the TR only ) instead of that joke of an iri ( the cup add-on ) like wth?!


    and there would be a downside to balance it out just like MDR

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,124
    edited June 13

    Yeah I used to love Spirit (as and against for that matter) but they completely neutered her.

  • ProudRinMainProudRinMain Member Posts: 137

    Same but i still main her, that’s how much i love her lmao, i lowered my mmr to have fun ( i don’t bully those below me in skill but i just couldn’t take how much survivors get info on me while i’m phasing AND exactly which direction i’m coming from easily whereas i have to go blind AND have to be 4-0 meters to hear their breathing and walking footsteps and they run that busted perk IW with no downside )


    And before anyone says i’m just not good “enough “ i’ve been maining her the day she was released and have seen her all that she went through from bugs to actual nerfs


    current spirit just can’t keep up with high mmr survivors not unless she runs two add-ons every game ( the cheery blossom or the amulet )


    i see comments saying “ Spirit can even go without Add-ons AND perks and do well “


    wait what….? 🤦🏻‍♀️

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,124

    Yeah she's no longer comp or top tier swf viable. You get so much info on her now she's literally pallet loopable. The only thing she has going for her is speed and trying to move faster than they can react which basically leaves her speed add on reliant.

  • ProudRinMainProudRinMain Member Posts: 137

    And also the “ Furin “ add-on surprisingly remove the directional whoosh if the survivors or survivor has the “ oblivious status effect “ which is annoying tbh

    the furin needs to be omnidirectional at least without any condition

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