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Why is Overzealous getting Changed but not Prove Thyself?

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  • Marc_123Marc_123 Member Posts: 2,370
  • ausanimalausanimal Member Posts: 437

    But they do have a point all of the killer perks that take 25% of like pop to other ones like ruin are all getting nerfed or changed, but yet there not touching any survivor perks that speed up getting gens done its kinda saying a lot right there.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,195
    edited June 18

    It's not saying anything, because we know that these perk changes are coming with basekit changes too.

    They could be slowing down all base survivor repair speeds, and so nerfing killer slowdown perks in response, making slowdown perks less essential.

    Or they could be buffing survivor base repair speeds and buffing all of these slowdown perks as well to balance.

  • ohheyitsbobcatohheyitsbobcat Member Posts: 1,277


    While I agree overzealous is useless, I disagree with your assessment of Prove Thyself since again, the time save only comes from negating the efficiency lost. Solo gens and then cooping the last is nearly as fast as Prove Thyself and a bit more consistent since you don't have to worry about 2 people getting knocked off a gen. Prove Thyself also doesn't give 30%, it gives 15% as it doesn't effect the user, only the person next to you.

    Let's compare solo gens to two Prove Thyself group gens with no interaction from the killer at all.

    Solo- Four gens done in 80 seconds with the 5th gen done together in about 47 seconds with two people. 127 seconds total for all gens not counting movement time.

    Two Prove thyself groups- Two gens in 41 seconds, followed by another Two in 41 seconds and the last one in 41 with two people. 123 seconds total for all gens not counting movement time.

    Not including movement time Prove Thyself will only save 4 seconds altogether. With 3 people coop-ing the last gen, the time difference is 7 seconds and four people is around 9 seconds. Again for reference, a single commodious with no add-ons saves a flat 11 seconds.

    I'm not saying Prove Thyself is bad as the extra time you do get can help destroy a 3 gen or slam out the final gen which those few extra seconds saved can be the difference. The perk just isn't as extreme as people think it is.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,864


    it gives 15% as it doesn't effect the user, only the person next to you.

    This is wrong. It does affect both the user and the person repairing the generator with you. Its currently slightly bugged. Its suppose increase repair speed by 15% for both users for total of 30%, but currently it gives only 26% speed bonus.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,234

    Yes, but having PTS remain as is with the pretty sweeping regression nerfs, and the issue becomes that it's now much harder for the killer to pressure the survivors sufficiently to slow down the game.

  • ohheyitsbobcatohheyitsbobcat Member Posts: 1,277

    Okay, I do stand corrected on the user thing. I thought the 15 percent efficiency loss only applied to one survivor but it seems it does apply to both which means Prove Thyself should apply to both as well.

    However, my calculations should still correct based on how the game does percentages. It doesn't add or subtract a flat 15%. It does it based on the number itself. So if a person does 1/c a second on a gen, it will become .85/c a second when with someone else.

    With Prove Thyself it doesn't add the .15/c loss back. It takes 15% of .85 which is around .1275 which we can round to .13 This means when survivors are working together they are only doing .98/c which is why the bar is red instead of gray when working with someone using Prove Thyself.

    Now lets go even further and say it did work by adding a flat 15%. This would then save time only on the final gen, which would be 7, 12 and 16 seconds respectively with two, three and four people.

    As far as I know this should be how the calculations are done. At least this is how they were done.

  • HannaciaHannacia Member Posts: 653

    I'm not sure why survivors even have perks that make the gens faster. Prove thyself + toolboxes are a big issue right now.

    Not even gen defense skills can help with gens popping less than 5 minutes sometimes and there is no way i can get 12 hooks in that time.

    This event made this obviously clear even more, because survivors literally gen rushed to get the doors open to get their masks as fast as possible. I was lucky enough to get few hooks in the game.

    I personally think gen speedup perks are bad for the game as it is now.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,195

    Once again... these perk changes are coming with base game changes. The reason why all killer regression perks are seing a change is likely because base repair or regression is getting changed too.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,195

    As a killer main, Prove Thyself is perfectly fine.

    It is not really a repair speed increase, it's a "I don't have to go to another gen" bonus. All it does is (almost) negate the penalty for stacking survivors, so they can work on a gen together.

    As a killer that's what you want. Gen rushing happens much more effectively when survivors split up on gens, you want them all grouped together, so you can pressure them all at once. It's neutral at best and actually works in your favour if you run Discordance.

    It also doesn't stack with itself, so multiple survivors running PT means they've wasted perk slots.

  • ZachcjjjZachcjjj Member Posts: 452

    they're obviously buffing it just like they said not every perk on there is getting nerfed

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,864

    I did not want to go into detail for how it works, but thankfully you went through details to explain it. I would say for the user reading a tooltip, they would expect the perk null repair penalty speed. 15%-15% is suppose to be 0. how it works in back end for programmer should not concern the user/player, though you could argue the tooltip is wrong as it inaccurate displays information for the user.

  • Thanatos38Thanatos38 Member Posts: 37

    I used to use Prove Thyself all the time but the past couple of months it seems kind of pointless to use. However, during this Sweatfest Event, I'm using it more just to have a chance at some bloodpoints.

  • Phantom_Phantom_ Member Posts: 418

    Why is this entire forum filled with posts on changing survivor perks because they're "too" OP even though they're working as they're supposed to?

    With DS, CoH, DH, IW, and now even Prove Thyself that gets picked once in a blue moon seems to be an issue. Maybe just replace all survivors with perkless bots, maybe then all the killer mains will be happy sheesh.

  • jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 3,686

    I'm sure you already know this, but it's because what those perks are supposed to do ended up being overpowered.

    DS was overpowered. It got fixed, now it's balanced.

    CoH was overpowered. It got changed, now it's... still really strong, but not quite as OP.

    DH, IW, and (arguably, I'm not convinced myself) PT have yet to be changed, so they're still being discussed.

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