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I think a lot of the changes are good for solos

TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 1,123
edited June 23 in General Discussions

For the solo queuers as a whole I think the changes help.

Many times I see a 3 or 4K when doing solo queue it's because of NOED and altruistic survivors hook bombing instead of looking for the totem or a facecamper and survivors do rescues without BT instead of gens. With NOED, it's now incentives and much easier to take out the totem first and then do the rescue.

With the basekit BT, for 5 seconds the survivor has an Endurance effect and, very importantly will be at 4.5 m/second so almost as fast as the Killer and this can go up to 15 seconds at that speed with the actual BT perk. Plus, if the Killer hits the just unhooked survivor this gives the post hit speed boost on top of that.

Camping was not directly addressed but camping only works well if the Killer can rehook the camped survivor or is Bubba, infinite Myers, etc. If people hook trade then the gens will be done before the Killer gets a kill and it'll be a 4E.

Speaking realistically I escape as solo queue between 50 to 60% of the time but many times that I don't it's because my teammates handed the win over. Either they were too busy pallet stunning and teabagging the killer and not doing gens (while ignoring that pallets are finite), I was left to one hook or die on second stage even though the Killer was far away from me, hook bombing a facecamped survivor instead of doing gens or someone DCing immediately on first down or suiciding on first hook. That's the fault of the survivors doing it; not the Killer.

Gen repair time is going up by 10 seconds but gen regression perks got nerfed. I consider Ruin and Pop to have gotten shot down in flames by the nerf cannon and there are more ways to get a buff to repair speed now.

Self care got hugely hit as well but Botany got an amazing buff and, paired together, are close to the same. CoH and Medkits weren't touched and, if anything, got even better if stacked with Botany.

Off the record is really good now as well. Sure, it goes away if you do anything productive but if the Killer is trying to tunnel you chasing you for 30 seconds, finally catching up, and then watching you race away with a speed boost and Deep Wounds instead of a health level will probably discourage that in the future.

My solo games are mainly the Killer gets 2 to 3 hooks or a 3 to 4K because the survivors hand game to the Killer with a much smaller mid result. Based on what I see in my games I'm obviously not at high MMR as solo, probably mid, but only very rarely do I see a Killer that's good enough at chasing, splitting pressure and dropping chase when needed to do well that way but those games, win or lose, are the most enjoyable since I get to play.

Overall, I like the proposed changes. I may like them less or more after they come out depending on what practical over theory is like (and QoL for solos won't go up really high until we get the info changes on the HUD telling us what our team is doing) but I think the quality of games for solos as a whole is going to go up at least a little. I definitely don't think it'll be a disaster.


  • CybilCybil Member Posts: 930

    I agree that many of these changes are good for solo queue. TBH I think the game is going to be a lot more enjoyable for both sides.

  • jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 4,077


    I think a lot of the "this update kills solos" uproar comes from people assuming that specific perks are necessary to stand a chance in solo queue, and not perk types. Solo gets a buff in the form of not having to worry about their teammates farming or simply not having BT, they get more viable stealth and chase options, they get a neat new form of information for when the killer is coming at them (info that's much less useful in a SWF)... gens taking longer is gonna hurt, but clearly it needed to due to how fast gens were going.

    Tunnelling got addressed very effectively, which helps solos since it's harder to coordinate a defence against that right now. Camping not so much, but hopefully that comes soon.

  • jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 4,077

    Hi! So:

    Stealth: Off the Record and Lucky Break are also being changed in this very patch and are shaping up to be very strong, Shadow Step is pretty decent but has downsides, Bite the Bullet provides a particular type of stealth, and probably a few more that I'm forgetting.

    Chase: Literally every exhaustion perk that isn't Dead Hard, though Dead Hard is looking to still be pretty decent, arguably Dark Sense, and all the tools that they already had for chase that were overshadowed by either Dead Hard or meta perks they felt were necessary to run that no longer are.

    Tunnelling got addressed about as well as one can, pretty obviously. If the killer tries to hit you after you're unhooked, you get a speed boost, and that duration can be extended massively with one of a surprising number of sources of Endurance coming up.

  • sulaimansulaiman Member Posts: 2,680

    Ok, what stealth options do you talk about? (unless you mean something like hidding from the killer whenever you hear a slight heartbeat.

    Because i like stealth, and usually if i get in a chase, i try to lose the killer instead of just extending the chase. however, that got harder with each map rework, because in a lot of places, there are either no los-breaker at all, or there is simply nothing where you could have gone. In everyone else, iron will was crucial, because you could try to turn a corner, and then double back next to the killer. But now, he will still hear so, so that is not an option anymore, so i am really interested in these viable stealth options.

    I had the discussion with the haddonfield-rework, where people said it was super for stealth (and it is, if you are not in a chase. if you are, there are just 2 buildings to go and hope you get the mindgame-advantage there)

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 1,123

    No, I'm not. Equip Off the Record and DS if you're that worried about. Now you get a haste boost for at least 5 seconds, an extra health state from Off the Record for 45 seconds, a post hit speed boost if I'm hit in that 45 seconds and then a DS stun after for up to 60 seconds.

    If that's not enough for you to counter tunneling, I'm sorry, but the devs aren't going to make you invulnerable.

  • MarigoriaMarigoria Member Posts: 5,932
  • jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 4,077

    ...No aura and no grunts of pain isn't stealth? What do you mean?

    Lucky Break is also very very good if you know what you're doing with it, it just requires more thought than simply being silent. Bite the Bullet is good with all self healing, not just Self-Care, Dark Sense is an info perk that only activates when the killer is likely to be on you and aura reading in chase is very powerful.

    Great, keep running Lithe. Most survivors ran Dead Hard, though, so they have more viable exhaustion perks now.

    What more do you want from tunnelling? Like, literally- if Endurance and Haste basekit plus a ton of options for giving you more of both aren't good enough anti-tunnel, I genuinely want to know what you think would be good enough.

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 1,123

    So this is more of a you personally don't like the changes instead of how the changes will affect solos as a whole?

    On another note, my teammates hook trade. Possibly, your MMR and region doesn't but mine does. Hook trading just got incentived though. Survivors screwing up if they don't doesn't mean they should get rewarded either.

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 1,123
    edited June 23

    I think it's fairer to say a lot of DH users and solos who don't want to consider new options dislike the changes.

    For DH, as with NOED, if you need DH instead of Lithe as an example or NOED instead of Devour Hope to be at your MMR you are only at that MMR since your perks are carrying you.

    If it's just you don't like change that's understandable but that doesn't mean the update isn't good overall.

  • GamallGamall Member Posts: 196
  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 1,123

    Feel free to provide arguments and logical statements.

  • ZeidoktorZeidoktor Member Posts: 1,385

    Haven't read the post in full yet, but want to note the haste is 7%, which puts you at 4.28 m/s, not 4.5. Or, in other words, you're 107% vs 110 or 115.

  • RisingTronRisingTron Member Posts: 482

    Already got ppl complaining about Off the Record being OP when it's literally "Borrowed Time but when ur teammate doesn't have Borrowed Time." As far as I can tell, that's the only decent solo queue perk after the update since DS got butchered. (Less stun? Really BHVR?)

    Not to mention this update is a major buff to Blight, Nurse, Legions, and Plagues. 4 of the worst killers in solo queue imo. (The slower gen speeds + Thana buffs are gonna be actual hell on earth against Legions and Plagues. And the base killer updates are gonna be hell against Plague and Blight. You're telling me I'm gonna get LESS distance when I get hit by a them? Yay! And of course those are 2 killers that already ate through DS before. So now it's gonna be even easier for them)

    The base BT doesn't actually address anything. It's basically BHVR saying "Hey, we know you guys are getting tunneled a lot so here's how we're gonna fix it...by not actually fixing it at all good luck!" 5 seconds is actually nothing.

    Idk as a solo survivor, I am not looking forward to playing DBD after this mid-chapter. But if they were trying to convince ppl to switch to killer ig they succeeded. Can't wait to stomp solos ig.

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 1,123

    How do you think Plague and Blight are going to be even worse?

    I disagree with your take on the gen speeds and Thano simply because a gen with the new Thana will take 110.25 seconds as opposed to the 96 seconds (assuming full Thana stacks) it too before. I can take roughly 5.5 seconds off of the repair speed as well with the new options for 5% repair speed increase. Also, Pop and Ruin will not be getting anywhere as much regression and, without the scream, Pain Resonance won't activate DMS.

    In my opinion, that's fine. Gens were popping too quickly before.

    I also disagree that the new 5 second BT is nothing. It's enough time to put some distance between you and the Killer

    If people are really concerned about tunneling still, stack Off the Record and DS. That provides a 5 second haste minimum, 45 seconds of Endurance, a post hit speed boost after being hit, and a 3 second DS stun for up to one minute. That's a lot. The only reason not to do it is you don't want to or aren't concerned about tunneling.

    I don't think DS needed a change but I think it'll be less necessary now and, with the new combo, it's not necessary to let unhooked people body block the Killer for up to 45 seconds and then still harass the Killer so the Killer can eat a 5 second stun. That's not fun for the Killer. Maybe with a 3 second stun it'll happen less or maybe the change to DS was not necessary.

    The less distance part isn't that big of a deal since it's literally two tenths of a second. If you want distance, equip Overcome.

    Tunneling and camping are a lot less viable, gen regression perks have been nerfed, and now there are options for survivors to take instead of the same small group of perks. That sounds good to me.

    Do I want sick heal speeds? Botany, Desperate and possibly CoH or Autodidact. Have a tunneling killer throw the game if they target me? Off the Record, DS and Overcome. Be the most annoying person ever to a slugger especially if they have a hex? Tenacity, Unbreakable and Soul Guard. Help the unhooked? BT, Babysitter and We'll Make It. I see options with room left over for an exhaustion perk.

    Of course, until we see how it plays out practically, we won't know but I don't see a big problem at all.

  • RisingTronRisingTron Member Posts: 482

    Plague is going to be a pain because of Thana.

    Blight is going to be a pain because you get even less distance when you're hit. When getting distance is already nearly impossible against Blight and Nurse.

    But yeah Sprint Burst and Overcome are definitely gonna be getting used a lot more.

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 1,123

    I do agree that Plague will be a pain because of Thana but Plague and Legion are already pains with Thana. Thana and Dying Light combined on either is even worse and, if they do Plaything and Pentimento for a currently 50% slowdown, is sleepy time. It's up to the person's tolerance but I view it kind of like Impossible Skill Check Doctor; it's there to annoy the survivors. I just feel the 2.5% difference on Thana is less annoying than either of those combos but that's an issue that the 2.5% increase only marginally makes worse and not from the update per se.

    I agree completely that it's nearly impossible to get distance on a Blight or Nurse. My opinion is that the two tenths of a second won't make that big of a difference overall; I'll just get hit two tenths of a second faster. Now, with a BT unhook or a Off the Record unhook, I'll at least get more time than two tenths of a second to do something (15 second with BT 3 as opposed to 12 seconds currently).

    I defintely agree Sprint Burst and Overcome are going to get used tons more. I like that; it's not cheesy and uncounterable like current DH and I find Killers having a hit and run playstyle, which should be more incentivized now, more enjoyable to play against (as opposed to now where it's chase until down because the Killer is assuming DH and doesn't want to give even more opportunities for it to be used).

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