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Survivor Isn't Dead Nor Has It Ever Been.

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  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,092

    Solo q is dead, but that's simply because of players, not the perks, not the basekit of survivors.

    BHVR could give invincibility to every survivors and yet soloq matches gonna end up with 4k for some reason.

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 908

    I 100% would agree with the visual heartbeat from mobile being an option for people. For Spine Chill, it will be in the PTB and accessibility concerns can also be mentioned there. Personally, I think the only changes Spine Chill needed was that it didn't light up if the Killer was Undetectable and removing the vault speed (which the devs did do).

    I also wrote this post because I remember in another post someone suggested VHS to you. As a forewarning, VHS has tracking entirely based on sound, no aura reading outside of a mechanic called the Rift that's hard for Teens to get and nothing similar to Spine Chill. DbD, in my opinion, is friendlier to the hearing impaired. While, if you do want to try the game you definitely should as it can be fun and is a different playstyle than DbD, I thought I should mention it in the hopes that knowing this going in would save you frustration if you do try.

  • IcaursIcaurs Member Posts: 478

    Yes maps are too small. Based off of Nurse, spirit, blight and hillbily, maps are way too small. The problem isn't map size its killer power disparity. The weaker killers struggle because game needs to be balanced around nurse blight and spirit because survivors need to rely on teammates while the killer only has to rely on themselves. No killer should have the ability to move faster t hen 115, because basing maps off the assumption that all killers are either 110 or 115 is the only way to make proper balancing. You mention garden of joy and Eyrie of crows, but against oni, hillbily, blight, nurse, its a perfectly balanced map, but against deathslinger its not. They need to massively nerf most killer powers and addons to create a rough baseline power and balance off that. On top of this most maps are neither killer sided nor survivor sided its RNG sided. The exact same map came can swing heavily on the side of killer or survivor based on luck and if you don't understand that then please don't just repeat what you see other people say on the forums.

    Ok gen speeds. Listen to this very carefully because you are clearly not paying attention.

    Doing generators is not FUN. It sucks. The developers did the worst thing possible and made the worst aspect of DBD (gen repair) and made it longer. That is awful and boring. Not to mention extremely lazy. Looping is what made DBD fun, its what made it popular in the first place. Coutnering looping as killer use to be hard and required skill, now its way more on the side of killer the then at any point in DBD, and yet both killers and survivors are enjoying the game less. They killed the actual draw of the game. Its the same thing that happened with stealth.

    Lastly camping. Yes there are tones of way to fix camping. One way would be to pause the hook timer if the killer is within 16 metes of the hook. What's that survivors will loop the killer near the hook to pause the timer. Well if camping is a legit camping. Why shouldn't looping the killer near the hook be a legitimate strategy? Bare minimum make it so both the unhooked and the unhooker get basekit get original bt once per match. But I imagine you will say that's unfair, yet say camping it perfectly fine. There are plenty of things that could have been tried, but they didn't want to risk upsetting killers. So instead, they do this fake "massive game change" which was really just as nerf to survivors, a buff to killers, a buff to camping, and the brand new tool for survivors to stop camping is so little that even some well known killers in the community, Otz ect have come out with just... this changes nothing. I mean this doesn't fix leatherface at all and mot basement camping changes nothing. 5 seconds will not get you too a pallet on most maps.

    So yes... this change is terrible

  • pizzaduffyhp90pizzaduffyhp90 Member Posts: 695

    So what would you want for those killers even with the mobility on the big maps they can still have problems except for nurse cause it's nurse. Blight still slides on like 75% of walls, Oni needs to build his power up and if a survivor is hugging around a loop or a rock you'll have a harder time to hit them with his power, and same with Billy you need to curve around loops to catch them.

    When you say pause the timer for camping sure you can finish the gens and leave them but, you know those altruistic survivors will want to save them but, let's say you have Myers, Trapper, Trickster, Bubba, HillBilly, Doctor, or Oni they can abuse that easily with there power so in fairness you pause the timer yes but, any killer that can trap the hook or get an insta down there good luck trying to get that.

    Yes gens aren't fun to stay on I get that but, a change is better than no change.

  • UnknownKillerUnknownKiller Member Posts: 2,008

    So take good things from another or same game its bad?

  • Iron_CutlassIron_Cutlass Member Posts: 324

    So you base map sizes off of high mobility killers? So only 4 killers out of the entire killer roster. The issue is map design though. Billy is horrible on the new maps since they aren't designed for him, curving is damn-near impossible in most tilesets, awful collision and pointless vanity objects added that actively hinder their ability. Something that Blight might not have an issue with, but Billy has an issue with. So basically only applicable for 3 killers, not 4, in that regard.

  • The_BiggCheezeThe_BiggCheeze Member Posts: 406

    Yeah because DH was soooooo skillful. "OH NO, WHAT WILL I DO!?" "I know! *presses one button*" "I'm saved!!!"

  • The_KrapperThe_Krapper Member Posts: 2,386

    Survivor isn't dead but prolonging gen times on top of the slowdowns available makes survivor a snooze fest because you're pretty much gonna be forced to just genrush every game, you're gonna be seeing a lot more gen builds from survivors to counteract the changes being made, Do I think it's fair? Sure it's fair because of survivors basically spawning in on separate gens but I think people are more upset that a secondary objective wasn't added to counter gen speeds and instead they're forced to hold m1 longer and just sit there, the game is just getting stale because it's repetitive and nothing really new has been added to the way the core of the game itself works, if they left gens alone on time and added a smaller secondary objective in order to have the gates powered at the end I think alot of people would be happier because they're actually doing something different instead of sitting there longer and you feel like you're playing a real game instead of a repair simulator.

  • IcaursIcaurs Member Posts: 478

    Because its Nurse is not an answer. The existence of killer power, addons ect that push the killers far beyond their proper strength is the reason this game is so massively unbalanced. Survivors need a way to win without relying on 4 sweat teammates because its just not realistic without constant SWF. If the killer addons were overall nerfed then I would be more willing to agree that killers needed a massive quality of life improvement such as the one that is coming with this patch.

    As your point about camping. So if we cannot fix 100% of camping its not worth trying. I really hope you never work on any video game ever.

    As for gens... change for the sake of change is good? You do understand there are legitimate reasons why the game was made the way it was. You don't just change something and say "See we tired." And when people say you just made it worse, then go "well change is good." They are literally making DBD more boring for survivors. Not even harder. MORE BORRING. What happens when killers complain that 90 seconds is too short. So they up it to 100. Or 110 or 120. Even if balance wise let's 110 was perfect balance for both sides. As a survivor I will not sit on a gen 110 seconds 5 times a match, not because I might lose but because that sounds like a bad game.

    Yes. If we are going to base DBD killers off of SWF and not solo Q then we need to base maps off of Nurse, not clown. Alternatively I am more then happy to base the game off of clown if it meant that killers were based off of 4 solo survivors with massively varying skill levels as this would be fair way to balance the game for both sides, but I imagine killers would struggle at the high end because most killers would need to be massively nerfed, majority of addons either completely reworked or just removed. I imagine a large portion of killers due to their reliance on the game being based off them being way more powerful then the need to be would continue to complain despite this being objectively the best way to balance the game. Killers need to pick a baseline and commit, instead of picking and choosing. It is the peak of entitlement.

  • pizzaduffyhp90pizzaduffyhp90 Member Posts: 695

    The only thing though is that some addons don't push a killer past it's strength like Demogorgan for example his addons are good but, he still doesn't feel like he's got more strength with them even with his Black Heart addon while it helps with the recovery speed depending on the map doesn't help much as in most cases there's another loop in range for them to make.

    Survivors do have many ways to win without relying on sweaty teammates I play solo all the time as Survivor and I get a fair share of good Survivors and bad ones and even with some bad ones I can still win in most cases and not because the killer player did badly they were just good at doing gens.

    I'm not talking like a game dev because I'm not developing this game I still stand on the camping thing you can never truly get rid of camping in multiplayer games don't matter what penalty you put in they'll still do. Do you know any multiplayer game that has 100% removed camping? Fps games still have it, Fighting games have it, even other horror games have it F13 as an example Counselors just hiding and camping in lockers, tents, the exit for cops or under beds after awhile Jason can sense where you're hiding if you're under something or the range of the sense will be increased if you're just hiding in a corner or exit and players still do it.

    So you'd rather finish the game in 3 to 4 mins or maybe bleed to death in a corner for 4 mins so the killer can't hook you and they just leave you there? That doesn't really sound like a more fun thing to do than what's being changed.

  • Iron_CutlassIron_Cutlass Member Posts: 324

    The issue with things being based around SoloQ for a basis of judgement is DbD's game design is based around SWFs, a majority of perks as survivor enforce teamwork and cooperation, both of which dont really exist in SoloQ. I mean, why else do you think most meta perks have just been second chance perks? Because it ensures your survival alone, not the teams survival, and for a good reason, you cant be a team player if there is literally no way to communicate with teams. Now look at SWFs themselves, higher survival rates, they get a lot more variety in perks they can utilize to it's fullest, the game is literally built around.

    Dont get me wrong, I wish this would change, I would be fine with a voice chat system, or something to display information to teammates to help them make plays. Something to give them a hand since Ive played SoloQ, I play both sides pretty evenly in fact, and it can be painful to deal with teammates that dont know what to do.

    I also have literally no issue with Nurse, Blight (mainly his addons, basekit is fine imo), and Spirit (mainly her addons, basekit is fine imo) getting changes.

    The issue with the new maps is that they arent designed at all with any killers in mind, they are designed to look nice and nothing else. Their map layouts and designs in of themselves is horrible for killers because of this. Let's just take a few looks at some maps to give you a better idea.

    Garden of Joy is the most recent example. Main Building has an infinite loop in which you gain enough distance from each window to break chase for another window vault, the doorway around far away from the window to mindgame and get a hit, and the fall from the window is low enough to not stagger the survivor's fall... why is this in the game? Because it looks nice, that's it. What about the bushes on the outside? Hillbilly cannot physically chainsaw survivors sitting still on certain parts of the bushes because of their awful collision, why is this in the game? Because it also looks nice. See where Im going? No...

    Or how about this, Eyrie of Crows. Eyrie of Crows has a bunch of pallet loops in the graveyard area, which would be fine but every single pallet is wide enough to be extremely safe to loop around, and around each loop are vines sticking out. Those vines make the area look really nice, it really fits into the map's appearance, but there is one issue, the map actively interferes with Hillbilly's power. With their collision being so bad that you can hit them without visually being near them. It makes curving physically impossible in those loops, and they are super common to come across.

    Again, Im stating that the maps arent horrible designs because they are bad for M1 killers or good for survivors specifically, the maps are horrible designs because they arent designed with ANYONE in mind. BHVR focuses on the appearances of maps, that they complete undermine any form of balance. Their design focus isnt on survivors. Their design focus isnt on killer powers either. They are just checking off a list of cool visuals to add to make stuff more appealing as advertising material.

    Also to "killers need to stop picking and choosing a baseline and commit instead of picking and choosing, it is entitlement" in response to what I said, my focus was just on how they dont design maps around anything, so I was just saying how the map is horrible for Billy because of it, I think you are definitely stretching with that...

    But then again, I guess Im an "entitled killer main" despite me not really maining either side, but any criticism towards the game while keeping the entire game's balance in mind makes me a "main" of a certain side because people cant complain without starting a "us VS them" scenario automatically. Bring up an issue survivor related, "survivor main trash, just go back to relying on your easy game to hold your hand". Bring up valid criticism over the state of killer, "entitled killer main garbage, you just want to make the game easier for yourself and no one else". IM JUST TIRED OF THIS. WHY TO PEOPLE CONTINUE TO DO THIS STUFF IN 2022?

  • pizzaduffyhp90pizzaduffyhp90 Member Posts: 695

    Those vines on Eyrie I was able to dodge a whole corrupt plague puke with them. Only once though than she got me XD

  • IcaursIcaurs Member Posts: 478

    The fact you can't play a killer and notice the power difference between adorns and no adorns, objectively proves you are bad at the game. Or alternatively you do understand that even minor addons massively effect killer powers and are deliberately pretending that it doesn't for your point.

    "Survivors have many ways to win without relying on sweaty teammates." WHAT GAME OF DBD ARE YOU PLAYING AND HOW DO I GET IT? You need to post the file you're using because you would make millions with this imaginary version of dbd you have created. Constant survivors and killers with top addons and perks all the time and if you say you aren't encountering it. Then either you MMR is so low that you are legitimately playing a different game. Or you are saying that you are encountering it but it dons' affect you.. guess you too good. If so you and every other imaginary DBD player who is just so good that they constant win their solo Q team matches with little too no effort need to start you twitch streams. Because you will put, the best of the best too shame.

    Here is the biggest issue

    1. yes you can fix camping. By making massive game altering changes. But they don't want to risk anything that might actually change it it up, became that may upset the killer community... for some reason??? So instead they do these completely minor changes that fix nothing and has been a problem since 2016 and has not been addressed in 6 years. And the big change they add for survivors, the thing to get you excited for survivor is... 5 seconds of BT... Not even enough time to get you to a pallet on most maps (not even acknowledging basement). This will not change camping at all as half the killers that removing from the hook (You know any killer who can insta down) or fix the real issue, that we could already get them off without BT, the problem is you are just hooked in their place.
    2. THEY BUFFED IT. They buffed camping, and I have no words that can explain the legitimate brain power it must have taken for the devs to think it was a good idea to do this. They gave killers 10 seconds per generator. Not much if you are playing the game properly. But when camping, with 120 seconds... yeah.. that's massive. Then, throw on 2 stacks of STBS basekit. I guess there were a couple of times where survivors were able to unhook their teammate and use the BT teammate to take the it so they can both escape... had to stop that... reasons. Then they nerfed D strike. 3 seconds won't get you out of range of certain killers. Killers who choose to just eat the d strike because they plan on camping form the start just got buffed. Camping with deadlock/ corupt are barely affected. This isn't even an attempt to fix camping. If you think otherwise then you have to be crazy. Its such a clear afterthought that like they went "Ok so we just buffed every single killer in the game... and nerfed some of the strongest survivor perks in the game. That should stop the killers leaving... oh right half our player base is survivors. Throw on 5 seconds of BT and tell them to shut up." Its not even an attempt.
  • IcaursIcaurs Member Posts: 478

    The fact you can't play a killer and notice the power difference between adorns and no adorns, objectively proves you are bad at the game. Or alternatively you do understand that even minor addons massively effect killer powers and are deliberately pretending that it doesn't for your point.

    "Survivors have many ways to win without relying on sweaty teammates." WHAT GAME OF DBD ARE YOU PLAYING AND HOW DO I GET IT? You need to post the file you're using because you would make millions with this imaginary version of dbd you have created. Constant survivors and killers with top addons and perks all the time and if you say you aren't encountering it. Then either you MMR is so low that you are legitimately playing a different game. Or you are saying that you are encountering it but it dons' affect you.. guess you too good. If so you and every other imaginary DBD player who is just so good that they constant win their solo Q team matches with little too no effort need to start you twitch streams. Because you will put, the best of the best too shame.

    Here is the biggest issue

    1. yes you can fix camping. By making massive game altering changes. But they don't want to risk anything that might actually change it it up, became that may upset the killer community... for some reason??? So instead they do these completely minor changes that fix nothing and has been a problem since 2016 and has not been addressed in 6 years. And the big change they add for survivors, the thing to get you excited for survivor is... 5 seconds of BT... Not even enough time to get you to a pallet on most maps (not even acknowledging basement). This will not change camping at all as half the killers that removing from the hook (You know any killer who can insta down) or fix the real issue, that we could already get them off without BT, the problem is you are just hooked in their place.
    2. THEY BUFFED IT. They buffed camping, and I have no words that can explain the legitimate brain power it must have taken for the devs to think it was a good idea to do this. They gave killers 10 seconds per generator. Not much if you are playing the game properly. But when camping, with 120 seconds... yeah.. that's massive. Then, throw on 2 stacks of STBS basekit. I guess there were a couple of times where survivors were able to unhook their teammate and use the BT teammate to take the it so they can both escape... had to stop that... reasons. Then they nerfed D strike. 3 seconds won't get you out of range of certain killers. Killers who choose to just eat the d strike because they plan on camping form the start just got buffed. Camping with deadlock/ corupt are barely affected. This isn't even an attempt to fix camping. If you think otherwise then you have to be crazy. Its such a clear afterthought that like they went "Ok so we just buffed every single killer in the game... and nerfed some of the strongest survivor perks in the game. That should stop the killers leaving... oh right half our player base is survivors. Throw on 5 seconds of BT and tell them to shut up." Its not even an attempt.
  • IcaursIcaurs Member Posts: 478

    If you are stating that that even the most killer sided maps are based off of appearance, rather the strength of survivor or killer then this overall change to the game which is based entirely off of killer win rates is completely unjustified. All they have done is widened the gap between killers at the top, killers at the bottom and solo Q while at the same making sure camping is the most viable strategy for killers.

    As I have stated this many times, a baseline killer power would fix so much of DBD. Because power disparity of killers is what has ruined DBD. The killers at the top, and the killers with certain addons are so much stronger then majority of base killers with no addons that the game needs to balanced off their level to give survivors a chance. Unfortunately this won't happen, because they would need to bring down the strength of so many killer addons and this massive nerf that killer 100% needs would result in massive quitting. So instead they rely on perks and addons to fill the power gap. So instead of trying to do something drastic to prevent this they have just buffed all the killers in the game, which is especially true for killers at the top.

    WHAT COMPALINTS? What more does killers need?

    The game is already so on the side of the killer that there is nothing left to take. Its gone. All of it. "Gen speeds" Yes. Survivors have gen speeds. The only reason why gen speeds have remained at 80 seconds for long is because killers said that there is nothing wrong with camping tunnelling . Thus gen speeds have to be at 80 seconds, to give survivors a chance to escape. Now they made that harder. There is quite literally nothing left for you to take from survivors. It's all gone. So what do survivors do? They sit on gens because that's all they have. They had boons... for like 4 months. Before killers said that was unfair, now killers just need to run a perk and can counter all boons. But hey it was a neat 4 moths. The survivor experience is bad.. and this patch made it worse. Maybe you're right, and survivor win rates will not change. But honestly I care more about how a match goes, then the end result. Eventualy this game will be nothing but sweaty SWF.. and nothing else.

  • pizzaduffyhp90pizzaduffyhp90 Member Posts: 695

    I know some addons make the killers power better I'm not ignoring that I just said Demogorgan as an example cause he's fairly balanced and his addons aren't that crazy and don't give him to much. I know that Blight, Nurse, Leatherface, Oni, and a few other killer powers that can be way better with addons. My point is that even though a killers power has addons that can make it better Leatherface as an example both chili addons might make his chainsaw duration pretty long however, unless you're in a dead zone and you're roughly 10 feet ahead of him he's probably gonna catch you. Near loops, lockers, or pallets however, you can make it unless he's right on top of you than good luck with that. Even than with all that said that'll still come down to the 2 players does this Survivor player have an idea on where they're going and does Leatherface know what to do and how he can catch up or mindgame them.

    Yes I do get Survivors in my solo games that have all meta and other times I don't we can still win even when the killer has the best addons though obviously we do loose a good amount of time I've had many killers just loose because they couldn't catch anyone even when they don't have dead hard or something like that and even if they camp sometimes we can get them out sometimes we can't it's just how it is team is either really good with or without meta perks or they're not good with or without meta perks.

    I never said I was a great player yes I've gotten to iri 1 on both sides and Survivor has been way easier than killer. Yes mmr makes a difference and I wish it was no longer a thing and I can never tell what mmr I'm in until I start playing a game. We have 2 different mind sets for this game and if we keep discussing this are we ever gonna agree with each other probably not. I don't have many problems in my solo games and don't care what the out come is I just play to enjoy rather than try to win also try to do the same with killer as well. The basekit BT might be alright we don't know until tomorrow we'll find out.

  • DraconDirncDraconDirnc Member Posts: 115

    I will summarize the easiest way I can. I do not care what perks survivors bring. They paid for the game just like me it is completely rude to expect them not to use what they can. Same for killers they paid for the game and can play however they want. I hope this clears up your questions on my own motives in my words. Furthermore it might be more beneficial to not be so accusatory when responding. Though I respect the way of true discourse.

  • INoLuvINoLuv Member Posts: 318

    Devs did a good nerf to survivors and not needed nerfs to perks like Pain Resonance, Tinkerer, BBQ-WGLF and Spine Chill, but killers need more buffs individually, to add good addons to their basekit and some QoL changes for killers like Pyramid head, who did not needed nerf, and Trickster

  • Sadako_Best_GirlSadako_Best_Girl Member Posts: 366

    Jesus christ this thread is full of people that take this way too seriously.

  • MommyHunktressMommyHunktress Member Posts: 484

    bro. dead hard is not skillful. its easy to use and is free chase wins. if i can loop the crap out of a killer without dead hard how is it fair for me to run the perk and make it even worse and usable more than once?! also bt is basekit so no more farming, ds still works as anti tunnel. flashlight and sabo work just fine

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 6,578

    Amusing thread, much cringe.

  • KweenPleaseKweenPlease Member Posts: 306

    PERSONALLY, I look forward to the update as a survivor main. I am ready for a NEW META.

    That said . . . I see why people are upset. I don't use Deadhard, I don't use DS. ( DS doesn't stop tunneling it only prolongs it. If they're tunneling at 4-5 gens . . .I'm ready to be out. I'll put up chase but only to not be rude to the people who want to be there. )

    I think the new META Will be more balanced. BUT it's hard to see that when your entire playstyle circles around these perks that for MOST have been a NECESSITY because of how SOME killers ( don't @ me anyone reading this. If you're not one of those killers don't take it personally but also DS and Borrowed can't activate unless you tunnel so if you're mad at those perks you're just mad someone had to waste a perk slot so you couldn't be as underhanded as you wanted.)

    But yeah I am excited for this META. But I see why survivors are upset because LOOK at what it looks like FOR US.

    Longer Gens , Deadhard NERF , DS NERF . . .

    We've got ANOTHER Anti-loop killer who can TELEPORT and has an OP game mechanic. ( Dredge. No other killer has a power like Nightfall where it effects EVERY survivor on the field without having to be earned and CAN'T be deactivated. Pinhead at least has the box. ) Dredge is basically Sadako with anti-loop and his tv's / lockers can't be turned off.

    and THEN we have the Legion Buff . . . and then the buff to hemmorage and anti-heal perks IN ADDITION to the NERF of healing perks.

    Survivors got like . . . around 10 NERFs ONTOP of OP killers ONTOP of Killer buffs ONTOP of killer PERK buffs.

  • BrimpBrimp Member Posts: 1,533

    I don't think survivor has ever had a high skill ceiling. There's still multiple maps where they can just play for you against 90% of killers. Games literally don't last long enough for you to preserve resources. Also 5 seconds of bt is plenty enough to make it to a window unless a hook is in an entire deadzone where even 12 second bt wouldn't help you. And for maps being "too small" was never a problem cause they either had tiles that chained into each other over and over or a busted main building cough cough dead dawg.

  • BeatricksBeatricks Member Posts: 189

    I have never, in my two years of playing this game, had this incredibly long wait times for killer even during the best of hours. The playebase shrink is more palpable than ever.

  • CluelessWandererCluelessWanderer Member Posts: 825

    This weekend I had some time to play DBD. I play Solo Q, and I have never seen such relentless camping and tunneling. It was almost every match I loaded into. First downed survivor regardless of how many gens were up, facecamping. People kept d/c'ing or killing themselves on the hook. And due to how MMR works, that means I would get lower quality team mates (since there's no escape with this crap).

    It was just a miserable experience. the only reason why I persisted was because I just want to finish the Rift I paid for (never again will I buy it lol). Camping/Tunneling just decimates Solo Q. It just does. I'm so disappointed that BHVR nerfed Decisive. Sometimes it was the only reason I actually got an escape here and there (and my escape rate this weekend was less than 10%). I started having to run Deliverence, whiich I usually don't, and paired it with DS just to have a shot at playing the match and god help me, twice it got me out the Exit gates. I run these perks because i HAVE to. Not because I want to. I'd love to fool around

    Now? Well, that option is gone. DS is useless. I'm honestly not looking forward to this BS massive nerf. It's all for Killers so they have an easier time against SWF (who are a at massive advantage).

    Maybe that's what BHVR wants. That we all play SWF. Because they just made Solo go from miserable to unbearable. It just sucks because no one I know plays DBD. But I think SWF are the only survivors having fun (and a scant few on this forum who claim they win every match as Solo and its easy ....lol).

    I'm just appalled that BHVR has left Solo in an even worse state.

    ..and we all know OTR wont go live. It will be rendered useless. Just give it time lol.

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