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have entity block windows to end camping

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  • xfireturtlexxfireturtlex Member Posts: 205
    edited June 26

    Looping is kinda the main part of the game. If youre losing most of the loops as killer, youre doin somethin wrong. Im not sayin that to be mean.. trying to help. I play mostly m1 killers like freddy, trapper, pinhead, n pig with few problems winning loops at above average mmr....but ive also been playing since console launch.

    OhTofu (on YT) did a whole series waaaay back where ppl would send gameplay n hed point out what they did wrong n how to play better. The game has changed a lot since then, but the fundamentals still apply. You could also watch old Monto videos. He was pretty good at explaining why he was doing somethin as he was playing. Check that stuff out n you will find it much easier to win loops. Seriously.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,615

    Looping does require skill, the difference between a 20 second chase and a 5 gen chase is literally based on mindgaming skill. Slower killers cannot get looped indefinitely, plenty of resources and/or actions the killer can do to prevent that from happening. Either 1 of the following 2 scenario's are happening if the killer is being looped indefinitely:

    1. the survivor is 100x more skilled in mindgaming and you've fallen for it every single time that it mattered
    2. the killer is switching targets too often, and refuses to dedicate to a chase with anyone

    Both instances are the killer's fault.

    As for mindgaming a killer, sure, mindgame a killer for 15 seconds around without any pallets or windows, literally hold shift+w and run against a wall, oh wait? You get hit in 10 seconds, oh, whats this? the killer gets their attack refreshed faster, the survivor gets less distance and now the killer can shave off 5 additional seconds off a chase since there are no windows and pallets, and just gains free 5% after 15 seconds. So you'd be downed within 30 seconds without any loops. And that is pure m1 killers, excluding abilities.

    Killer abilities alone means that loops should exist. Otherwise the maximum chasetime is 40 seconds. Even with mindgames, because while a good mindgame can buy 2 seconds of time, that 5% bonus buys the killer much more time per chase. So if you want to remove loops, all killer abilities might aswell be removed, this would also solve killers who can facecamp very easily. Since there are no more abilities, might aswell make everyone 115%. Since they are 115%, they would all have a 32 meter terror radius, and since they all have no abilities to hide the TR, they wouldnt need lullaby's either. But that would mean all killers are the exact same character, just with a different skin.

    Removing the ability of looping would literally reduce the killer gameplay to Spasmodic Breath Nurse gameplay, permanently. So what's your choice? Keep loops or keep killer abilities, you cant have both.

  • AvociumAvocium Member Posts: 33

    I get if you disagree with me but now you're just being ridiculous

  • Babadook83Babadook83 Member Posts: 165

    a solution to camping would be to make the killer incapacitated when he's withing a certain area of the hook of a hanging survivor. it would makes graps not possible anymore and camping would be highly discouraged. what do you think?

  • StibbityStabbityStibbityStabbity Member Posts: 1,643

    Only as long as it applies literally right after they hook someone. They are WAY took close to the hook at that point. Also, no cooldown on the incapacitation.

    Killer will still be OP, but maybe, just MAYBE, Survivor will finally have a chance in high MMR.

    Now we just need a way to balance Rock Paper Scissors. Rock is overpicked because it dominates the meta. Scissors needs a buff, and Paper needs to be outright removed.

  • SimfelizSimfeliz Member Posts: 2,131

    Not ridiculous, but yeah, maybe nitpicking a bit much.

  • GoshJoshGoshJosh Member Posts: 4,502

    “Looped indefinitely”? Are you still somehow on a build of DbD from 2017?

    Yeah, this is certainly a case of git gud.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,615

    I played every single killer, not a single killer can be looped indefinitely. If you've been looped indefinitely, you've been playing against survivors who are at least 3x as good as you are.

    "they can stun with flashlight and grenade upon pickup"

    So, every survivor gains either a flashlight or a flash grenade basekit, no more durability, got it.

    "there are places where they can basically disappear into bushes"

    Ah, but there is a thing called sound. They might visually disappear, but you can perfectly hear which direction they are from your POV. If they went ahead of you into a bush, you can hear footsteps on your left or right, and bam, problem solved.

    "with 3 gens left, a 20 second chase is all you need", no, you dont, because gens will take 90 seconds, that means you need a 90 second chase to pop. Otherwise you can hook them, so 1 would need to go for the unhook, 1 would be on the gen, and 1 would be in chase. Ruin alone would regress gens fast enough, Pop, Call of Brine, Overcharge and Pain Resonance would slow the game more than enough to down a survivor within the next 60 seconds, meaning out of those 3 gens, maybe 1 has popped. And repeat.

    Since there are no loops, 20 seconds chase means you can down and hook a survivor within 40 seconds of finding them. So you can chase 1 survivor off a gen, use Overcharge+pop, go to the next gen, use Overcharge again, and now at least 1 generator will be regressing at 400%. Then chase that survivor, hook them again within 40 seconds, and only 1 gen has popped, go to the one gen you kicked first before and now you've gained 2 hooks for the price of only 1 gen, and the rest being practically 0% progression.

    That means on paper, you would easily have 10 hooks on 5 gens, only 2 survivors surviving, both on dead hook, so you can slug for a 4k easily. This is already quite bad. But it gets worse, with that optimal survivor strategy, you can kill 1 survivor in about 5 hooks(they would HAVE to work on gens, heal teammates or unhook them), so no risk of DS, or they basically tell you that you've gained a ton of time. Since the first survivor would die at 2.5 gens being done, now you'd have 1 survivor on hook, 1 in chase and 1 in need of unhooking+healing. Since there are no loops, you can now guarantee to kill your second survivor, assuming you didnt do so before(which you could have done). Leaving only 1 survivor that can do chase, and 1 that can do gens. Now maybe the 3rd gen pops, you have 1 survivor on hook, and 1 that cannot be on gens, they are either trying to unhook, or in chase.

    So now, to make it fair for survivors, 2 generators are being removed from the game because there are no more windows and pallets.

  • AvociumAvocium Member Posts: 33

    on most maps you can easily loop most killers around killer shack for 1+ minute drop pallet, move to next loop, juke killer once move to next loop etc. etc etc.

    in the right set up you can loop killer for long enough for the rest of your team to unlock every generator.

    Should the killer keep chasing? Of course not. Thats my point. A good killer knows when hes at a disadvantage and will immediately change who hes chasing. To do this right now is extremely easy and you're either lying or just bad if you claim you can't do this against most killers. It doesn't mean that the killer automatically loses, it just means that if you don't give up chase then you're probably gonna lose - that is bad game design imo.

  • GoshJoshGoshJosh Member Posts: 4,502

    No, it is perfect game design. It means killers can’t just mindlessly go after one person until they down them and still win the game (at least sometimes). It’s what sets apart good killers from bad ones.

  • AvociumAvocium Member Posts: 33

    dude, you can still easily mindgame and draw out a chase by 15+ seconds without looping. And the only thing that would change by making it slightly harder to loop is survivors would actually have to ... you know... *hide* more instead of being able to run up and faceroll killers with 4 swf.

  • ClumsyTrapperClumsyTrapper Member Posts: 543

    Windows already block themselves base kit after 3 vaults, nothing will end camping even if the devs hit camping hard with a base game punishment for it like gens get done Uber fast while someone is being camped killers will still do it for the bm

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 4,881

    You can check my Twitter for unlimited Spirit supplies

  • TheLastHookTheLastHook Member Posts: 329

    "Maybe because tunneling is unhealthy for the game while looping isn't?"


    hahahhahahahahahahahaha

  • DY86DY86 Member Posts: 428

    If ur bad at chases there’s perks for that

  • DY86DY86 Member Posts: 428

    What? Bro there’s no infinite loops no more. I think the only one that comes close to that is that one in backwater swamp.

    also, hate to break it to you but nurse with or without noed will not make up for lack of experience and skill. Just fyi

  • RumaRuma Member Posts: 2,072
  • sonata93sonata93 Member Posts: 198

    You're essentially saying we take away the one thing survivors have in their favor? Killers are faster than survivors, not to mention many of them have range attacks or instant-down powers so removing looping would essentially constantly give killers free downs. That makes no sense whatsoever.

  • JarkyJarky Member Posts: 323

    Doing this wouldn't prevent camping, let alone end it - if someone wants to camp they will do so.

    If you find that some windows in this game are so strong that they can't be mindgamed and have to just be brute forced, then I'd argue your actual feedback should be for reducing the strength of those windows via map design rather than implementing this base mechanic that will make very strong windows weaker and weaker windows incredibly weak. I also don't personally want the devs to implement a new mechanic that encourages survivors to just pre throw a pallet and hold W to another loop as I find playing tiles/loops far more interesting than that.

    To reduce camping, BHVR would need to implement base game mechanic changes to camping that make camping an incredibly detrimental thing to do that clearly communicates to the killer that doing this IS sacrificing further kills to just get one. The problem with it currently is it can actually be effective because the team-based side don't want to just see their team-mate die, so they approach the hook and try to rescue them which means they sacrifice their objective time to attempt to counter it, as it can often take MULTIPLE team-mates to rescue the camped survivor. The most efficient counter to it is slamming generators out, which isn't an enjoyable or engaging thing to do when your team-mate is hanging on a hook. This is made much more effective against Solo Qs.

    I don't know what the answer to it is unfortunately (though I'd argue adding Kindred base kit would at least help towards it from a Solo Q perspective), but I do know that changing chase mechanics isn't the answer. There are people out there that camp for a multitude of reasons, from someone clicking a flashlight at them, to a survivor being decent in a chase, to the simplest form of "I just find camping funny." and the solution you've proposed does very little to prevent that.

  • FlameGNGFlameGNG Member Posts: 624

    But BT doesnt save you from hook camping does it? It saves you from getting inta downed it doenst even save you from tunneling rofl

  • Seth__Seth__ Member Posts: 1,487

    If it was only about looping though, it's just fading to no interaction lately.

    I love to mindgame, I must say.

  • sulaimansulaiman Member Posts: 2,521
    edited June 27

    Stealth is heavily nerfed by the map reworks, you want to nerf looping more than already planed, and pallets are only good once, in the beginning of the match. without looping or any way to conserve them, they are gone fast and then there is no protection anymore.

    Since solo survivors can not coordinate well enough in most cases, how do you expect them to be able to win? (if you agree with me that the possibility should exist in the first place, maybe you are not).

    i would be very interested in your thoughts on this, and this has to include killers like blight which you cant just escape with holding shift + w.

    (and just to make it clear, i am a solo survivor main that does play both sides, and i dislike looping in both roles. To me, its the most boring aspect of the game. as survivor, i prever stealth, because making the killer lose you in a chase is much more satisfying for me, however with map reworks there are very few options left to do that, and with the iron will nerf it becomes harder again. so i see that looping is needed, since there is nearly nothing left for solo survivors).

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 730

    There's an exploit where as a survivor you can turn off bloodlust. I reported it previously and it never got fixed.

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 923

    If someone is at a strong tile or looping extremely well you could, well, always drop chase and go for another target while waiting until the good looper is in a dead zone to catch them.

    Call me crazy but I don't really see the point of giving survivors time to finish all the gens and bug out because I decided for some reason that I need to catch a good looper at the strongest tile imaginable.

  • AvociumAvocium Member Posts: 33

    A huge part of the balancing issue is that there are two groups of people that play this game: you have small parties or solo players and 4 man groups. The difference of capability between these two is so massive that the devs cant balance around them both. If they make a buff for solo players it will usually translate to a massive buff for a 4swf which already holds a massive advantage over most killers. The answer to this can only be to increase the communication available for solo/small groups, voice chat should be the first thing they implement

    To be honest my original post was only made as a response to the bt problem i foresee in the future. As a whole i dont think looping is so bad that it needs to be artificially removed and id rather it not be. Gameplay is best when you are not forced to play in a specific way, but i do think the upcoming changes will make this game even more frustrating for killers and something will have to be done so they stand a chance against 4swf

    A better, more natural, solution to this problem would be for the devs to recognize looping areas in all of the maps and alter them to make it a bit harder than it currently is to draw out a chase, remove pallets in some areas and add them in others. I would also like for the contents of maps to be more randomized than they are.

    The space between hooks on some maps is also easily abused by survivors and needs to be fixed.

    And these are just a few problems. Balancing this game for every killer is probably impossible, but more than half the killer roster can easily be looped and abused by 4swf. These are usually the lesser played killers and would need to be reworked to compensate, but then their kill % will increase for solo queues so again - before any other changes the moat important thing should be adding communication methods for solo queue

  • sulaimansulaiman Member Posts: 2,521
    edited June 27

    I actually disagee about the communication for solo, because it would only solve one of the problems solo queue has compared to swf. People not playing in a team is another one, as well as some people having their own agendas, be it challenges, bp - and thus, hook - farming, or just want to screw people over.

    I think seperating solo queue and swf queue would be the right way to go, while balancing both for the task at hand. Meaning killers can get nerfed if they so to the solo queue, but buffed if they choose to face swf-teams (compared to the now-standard). That would make fairer games all along.

    Sure, balancing maps would be great, but i doubt you can, especially if you want a)better placement of things like pallets, but b) more random maps...

    So, but we don´t have different queues for solos, and we dont have balanced maps, so your main take is screw the solos because swf is too strong, do i get that right?

  • FlameGNGFlameGNG Member Posts: 624

    tunneling is unhealthy i mean sure its a strategy but you have perks that make it so you dont have to tunnel to be viable... infact you have perks that discourage tunneling and camping on both sides... How is looping unhealthy? like thats what your suppose to do as a survivor but sure you hate dbd i guess probably wants the game to die out(its a joke dont get mad)... So in your perfect world a good survivors holds W on a flat and long line while the killer does the same ;)

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 7,740

    To truely stop camping make it so the Entity blocks unhooking when the killer is more than 32 meters from the hook. That way the killer is incentivise leaving the hook.

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