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Final PTB Thoughts - Constructive Criticism Edition

jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 3,710

I've already talked at length about what I like in this update (most of it!), so since I'm now redownloading the Live client, I figured I'd toss my hat into the ring of things I'd like to see changed before this patch hits live. It's not much, but there are a few problems in my mind...

Revert DS Stun Reduction: Changing this perk to no longer work in the endgame is enough. Obviously, meta perks becoming useless is not only an acceptable outcome but in a lot of cases the preferred outcome, but I think DS deserves a lighter touch due to its status as one of the few anti-tunnelling tools. Even with more of those tools at our disposal in the new patch, I think DS should still be a hefty stun to help deter tunnelling killers.

Remove or Reduce Calm Spirit Debuff: I get why, it can be a game-swinging action to cleanse a totem and therefore doing it near the killer is a potentially huge buff, but 30% is WAY too high, especially considering that most cleanses aren't going to be that high-impact. 10% or 15% would be fine if the debuff has to be there, but honestly I think it could just go entirely.

Remove Prestige Cost: This is a really, really bad idea. If there must be a cost associated with prestiging, which I don't personally agree with, having that cost be higher than you can earn by maxing all BP categories in a single match is absolutely too high. More of a symbolic cost would be much more preferable, and having it just be a free node is the ideal outcome.

Changes to Endurance at Full Health: Either being fully healthy should deactivate Endurance (not being tapped, but actually being Healthy again), or being hit should proc Endurance even if the hit wouldn't have downed you. Being able to bodyblock and tank at full health with three health states is not great, and after this patch it'll be even more possible. I don't personally think any other issues with Endurance require urgent changes, I think they can hit live and things can be assessed once the dust has settled, but this issue I think should be addressed straight away.

Bubba's Chainsaw Should Stop When Hitting Endurance: Not a complaint but I just wanted to toss that idea out there, facecamping on all other killers took a hit due to it being now impossible to hard-tunnel off hook, but Bubba needs his own changes to curtail his ability to facecamp. Having his chainsaw sweep come to a dead stop (not a tantrum) when hitting Endurance will go a long way to curbing him. This does tie back in to this update a few ways, since Endurance is now guaranteed and doing all generators to get out and only give him one kill got harder, so I think it's worth mentioning.

And that's it! Overall I think this patch is great, and I'm excited to see it hit live-- these are just my few concerns regarding it!


  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,713
    edited July 4

    Having endurance as whole deactivate when being fully healed or proccing even when healthy would completely butcher any tiny bit of use that Mettle of Man still has. Off the Record is the one problematic perk that needs this change. It should deactivate when being fully healed.

    Overcharge, Eruption, Thana, and Gift of Pain will also probably need to be toned down before going live. Especially Overcharge, no idea why they would make the one regression perk that hurts newer survivors more the probably stronger slowdown perk in the game.

    I do like your idea for leatherface though.

  • jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 3,710

    I'm willing to let those perks hit live and see where they're at, in my opinion they're only borderline right now-- Overcharge and Thana might need decreasing, but I doubt anyone is gonna run a perk as finnicky as Eruption and GoP encourages good + healthy gameplay so as long as it isn't completely mind-numbingly boring to face I'm fine with it being strong.

    Mettle of Man already uses Endurance differently so I'm sure it could be made to ignore this requirement too. Still, this change applying to Off the Record specifically would achieve the same effect so I'm fine with that.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,713

    Gift of Pain I could still see being ok, but again, I feel like buffing it to 12% would already be enough since the percentage values will already be more meaningful because of the gen time increase.

    Regarding Overcharge, Eruption and Thana, I am positive it's too much though, and I really hope they tone those perks down before they hit live, especially Overcharge, because that perk in particular will be hell for newer survivor players. I would also hope for an action speed buff/debuff stacking cap, because stacking slowdown perks like Thana, Gift of Pain and Pentimento will be so insufferable, and perhaps almost impossible to beat for solo survivors.

    I just don't understand why the meta slowdown perks are being nerfed, with the intent of making killers not have to run as many slowdown perks, hence the gen time increase and kick regression buff, yet then they buff perks like Overcharge to the level of the current meta slowdown perks, for whatever reason. I wish they would have buffed more non-slowdown perks of killers anyways.

    And I do think Eruption will be too much. 25 seconds of incapacitated effect? The bigger problem with Eruption however is that it can be more punishing for solo survivors, because swf survivors, at least in some scenarios, can tell their team mates that they are about to go down, so they let go of the gen(s). That's why I want them to reduce the incapacitated effect duration if anything. I wouldn't mind if they further buffed the regression beyond 12%, maybe 15%? If it would turn out to weak in that case. I just wished they would have simply buffed the regression and kept the incapacitated duration the same, or reduce it even.

    I just don't see the meta being anything other than 4 slowdown perks with these buffs, despite the intention to go away from that, and that's pretty disappointing, and could easily lead to a fair amount of survivor players not playing the game anymore, because on top of slowdown perks still being so good, the base gen time and kick regression have now also been buffed. It's just too much in my opinion. This and of course the lack of actual, proper tunneling and camping nerfs at baseline, meanwhile killers getting a whole lot of baseline buffs, will most likely make the survivor/killer ratio go up quite a bit for the killer's side, with a lot of survivors leaving, and result in long killer queue times. And in the end no side will be particularly happy.

  • DeltaravagerDeltaravager Member Posts: 4
    edited July 5

    I agree with all of your points.

    I'm particularly really bothered by Jolt as well. Eruption has better regression, triggers on any down and has an insanely long incapacitated effect.

    Meanwhile, Jolt is going to see absolutely no use on any killer with a secondary attack.

    Nurse is going to be able to run Starstruck and Jolt and get 24% of regression in 30 seconds but Huntress can pretty much never get use out of Jolt.

    This was the only time in the next 3 months for Jolt's stupid basic attack requirement to be removed but now I'll have to wait until October at the earliest, but likely even longer.

  • ElcopolloElcopollo Member Posts: 711

    I don't think the thing with Jolt is that much of a problem, though. Not all perks have to be universally super-viable on all killers. Like Starstruck is superpowerful on Nurse, but very inconsistent hit-or-miss on Clown. Or Tinkerer, which gives info and immense pressure potential for Blight and powered-up Oni, but is incredibly situational on Pig and Hag, who will still get info, but if gen is far away enough - they effectively lost it.

    It also might be a programming issue or smth like that. If survivor goes down from a hatchet across the map - where does the effect take place: around 32m of survivor or around 32m of you, the killer? There's isn't another perk just quite like Jolt/Surge in the game, after all, I think. Eruption and Oppression, which give passive regression on distant gens, require you kicking generator first. And Jolt isn't TR-based.

    Besides, Huntress can get use out of Jolt. It really depends on your playstyle. It's not like the game makes you play "hatchets only".

  • XordXord Member Posts: 270

    I mean, we're past the point of saying jolt is stronger on some killers.

    We're talking on a perk that DOES NOT activate on certain killers, OR requires you to play sub optimally in order to proc a perk.

    That's bad design.

    As to how would the perk proc on a secondary attack is really not a problem. The killer, or the survivor, can be one or the other, doesn't matter, as long as it does something, I'd say it'd make sense that it works regarding to the survivor downed.

  • ElcopolloElcopollo Member Posts: 711

    Um, that's not true. There isn't a single killer in this game this perk doesn't activate on. Everyone, without exception, has a basic attack.

  • rebel581rebel581 Member Posts: 174

    I think Mettle of Man is treated specially and isn't really considered "Endurance". It's "if you are injured and this is active you ignore the hit". You don't enter into Deep Wound.

    But if I'm wrong about this then I'd be fine if it was just that OTR's endurance effect ends when fully healed. I think the rest of the perk should still be active when fully healed though. The hiding scratch marks and old iron will parts but mostly just the hiding scratch marks.

  • XordXord Member Posts: 270
  • RpTheHotrodRpTheHotrod Member Posts: 363

    Specific to long-term endurance only (IE OTR), the killer should have some sort of way to know they are not to be touched to avoid the obvious flaw of design where instead of people using OTR to avoid being focused on by the killer and instead get away and "reset", people instead use it to try to act as a decoy to push killers into chasing them through loops, gyms and killer shack all while being in absolutely no danger. It's just too strong to pull killer into a long chase with ZERO risk to the survivor. If it's indeed designed to get killers to not focus on those recently hooked, then killers seeing that they have long-term protection would certainly accomplish that - they aren't going to chase someone around for 30+ seconds if they know once they finally catch up that they'd be immune anyway.

  • ZeidoktorZeidoktor Member Posts: 1,281
    edited July 5

    Since Mettle of Man activates differently from other Endurance perks, I'd personally be fine with it being an exception to any "lost on being healed" rule.

    The point being made is that every killer can proc it, because every killer has a basic attack. That means it's wrong to say Jolt is "a perk that DOES NOT activate on certain killers" because that's objectively false. The it "requires you to play sub optimally in order to proc a perk" is probably more accurate, since killers that do have a secondary attack tend to down more frequently using it. Even then, though, there are times where it's better to M1 than use a chainsaw, hatchet, or rush.

  • RpTheHotrodRpTheHotrod Member Posts: 363

    oh, and the above comment above would also address the issue where The Ghost Face would waste a lot of extra time setting up stalks where the payoff would evaporate if the survivor was "storing" their long term endurance.

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