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Now do you see devs?

SpaceCoconutSpaceCoconut Member Posts: 1,962

Do you finally see what your game currently is?

We, the players, have spent years playing your game. Testing it, and telling you what needs to change, and you ignore the core problems while distracting everyone with cosmetics and changes that don't affect the core gameplay problems you created.

Do you understand why the Nurse was the most played killer in that sad excuse for a tournament? Because looping is a core problem that she completely ignores.

Do you understand why the matches were so quick? Because the generators are not enough to facilitate clashes between the players. Survivors need an additional task, or the killer needs a core mechanic that can create an additional task for them.

Everything else is a symptom of these two problems. Fix them. Find a way to make chases more than "ring around the rosy" and slow down the matches so killers have time to play and survivors aren't just diddling with generators for the entire match. These changes might even make SWF groups less powerful than they so obviously are.

We want to play DbD, we want to enjoy playing it, we want you to listen to us. Fixing these two things will make DbD so much more fun and challenging to play.

We'd love to play it competitively in tournaments, but balance it first. Make it fun first. Fix the core gameplay issues first.

I implore you. Find a way to change this frustrating, boring, and stagnant gameplay, or watch as your long-time players continue to leave for other games.

I don't speak for everybody blah blah, this is my opinion blah blah, I'm just tired of the nonsense blah blah

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Comments

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 13,214

    @The_Manlet said:
    I think it's way too late to fix anything. The problem is obvious - survivors can loop the killer around for too long, and good survivors are hitting great skillchecks almost constantly so they repair the generators really fast too. You could make killers more deadly in a chase, but that just makes them destroy low rank players, and just makes the strong killers even stronger and the weak killers acceptable at high ranks.

    If they hadn't gone out of their way to dis-incentivize stealth with the addition of the Doctor, Freddy and various anti-stealth perks then it would be feasible to make the survivors less able to loop killers around for days. But that grave has been dug.

    You can stealth the doctor. You only scream when you reach a higher lvl of madness or when you are at madness 3. So it´s not impossible to stealth him.
    Same goes for Freddy. You can stealth him before he found you. After that, it´s pretty useless, but then again, stealthing should happen before the killer (any killer) finds you.

  • deathdoer1deathdoer1 Member Posts: 86

    Increase gen completion time to 120 seconds, increase opening exit game times, and possibly require 1 additional generator to be completed. Wouldn't fix pallet looping and what are basically the core on how people play survivor but would help lesson the damage they do.

  • NoodleNoodle Member Posts: 103

    What struck me the most is even though the nurse has the potential to be an absolute beast. Even the best killers on nurse can struggle against a well coordinated survivor team. Seeing a perkless nurse lose to a team of perkless survivors is a bit sad to me. Everyone cries she's so OP and needs to be deleted or nerfed into the ground yet now we see what a full SWF team can do even without perks.

  • KurisKuris Member Posts: 191

    @Noodle said:
    What struck me the most is even though the nurse has the potential to be an absolute beast. Even the best killers on nurse can struggle against a well coordinated survivor team. Seeing a perkless nurse lose to a team of perkless survivors is a bit sad to me. Everyone cries she's so OP and needs to be deleted or nerfed into the ground yet now we see what a full SWF team can do even without perks.

    Perkless SWF Teams have been beating high ranked perked killers for a long time

  • KhroalthemadbomberKhroalthemadbomber Member Posts: 1,073
    edited June 2018

    Honestly what could've made the tournament better would have been the addition of allowing certain perks and add-ons.

    For killers: No NOED, No Mori. Everything else fair game.

    For Survivors: No BNP, No Keys, No DS, Everything else good to go.

    Obviously this isn't a perfect idea. Mostly because I've just woken up and the coffee hasn't fully entered my own personal blood web yet (yay for bad dad joke DbD puns), but already I think that an inserting of this in the rules could've added a bit more flavor to the tournament.

    -edit-

    Had an added thought as well. No offerings potentially either side just to keep the map random.

  • EpicFailTryHardEpicFailTryHard Member Posts: 1,316
    Kuris said:

    @Noodle said:
    What struck me the most is even though the nurse has the potential to be an absolute beast. Even the best killers on nurse can struggle against a well coordinated survivor team. Seeing a perkless nurse lose to a team of perkless survivors is a bit sad to me. Everyone cries she's so OP and needs to be deleted or nerfed into the ground yet now we see what a full SWF team can do even without perks.

    Perkless SWF Teams have been beating high ranked perked killers for a long time



    swf entails about 10 perks altogether.
  • SorenSoren Member Posts: 369

    Yup, this tournament is kinda what we already told before: in a competitive mood, survivors have the upper hand, and only Nurse has a great base kit (especially since she can counter pallet looping, which is the most efficient survivor's strategy right now, and that you can achieve it with no perk). Hag's base kit will be excellent after update but a lot of killers will still stay in an awful position without addons or perks. It's getting really boring to see (mostly) only Nurse when it's about being competitive...

  • The_ManletThe_Manlet Member Posts: 474

    @Tsulan said:

    @The_Manlet said:
    I think it's way too late to fix anything. The problem is obvious - survivors can loop the killer around for too long, and good survivors are hitting great skillchecks almost constantly so they repair the generators really fast too. You could make killers more deadly in a chase, but that just makes them destroy low rank players, and just makes the strong killers even stronger and the weak killers acceptable at high ranks.

    If they hadn't gone out of their way to dis-incentivize stealth with the addition of the Doctor, Freddy and various anti-stealth perks then it would be feasible to make the survivors less able to loop killers around for days. But that grave has been dug.

    You can stealth the doctor. You only scream when you reach a higher lvl of madness or when you are at madness 3. So it´s not impossible to stealth him.
    Same goes for Freddy. You can stealth him before he found you. After that, it´s pretty useless, but then again, stealthing should happen before the killer (any killer) finds you.

    Expecting the player to completely stealth the doctor and never get into a chase with him is just madness. You have to do unhooks. You have to do generators where stealth really isn't possible.

  • deadwolfwalkingdeadwolfwalking Member Posts: 624

    i think its time to bury DBD and begin working on DBD 2.... i think you've learned from your mistakes. time to make a better game.... or don't....

  • deadwolfwalkingdeadwolfwalking Member Posts: 624

    @SaltyKiller

    yeah. i'm really jazzed about Hide Or Die.... but if its as unbalanced as DBD, i'll never buy another exclusively online game....

  • The_ManletThe_Manlet Member Posts: 474

    Hide or Die is a completely non-competitive game where the killer role changes between players in the middle of a match. It's not going to have the longevity or competitive community that DbD has. Nor will Last Year. These games may be successful, but they aren't going to have tens of thousands of people playing at any time.

  • CorianderCoriander Member Posts: 1,078

    DBD is pretty unique and a great concept, I think we're all hoping it gets ironed out to the game we all want it to be (more or less) so there's a general consensus of balance vs. fun. They still have lots planned for us down the line and I wan't wait to see what's in store.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,139

    Hide or Die is a completely non-competitive game where the killer role changes between players in the middle of a match. It's not going to have the longevity or competitive community that DbD has. Nor will Last Year. These games may be successful, but they aren't going to have tens of thousands of people playing at any time.

    DbD only has that many people because of hive mentality. Not much better
  • The_ManletThe_Manlet Member Posts: 474

    @SaltyKiller said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    The_Manlet said:

    Hide or Die is a completely non-competitive game where the killer role changes between players in the middle of a match. It's not going to have the longevity or competitive community that DbD has. Nor will Last Year. These games may be successful, but they aren't going to have tens of thousands of people playing at any time.

    DbD only has that many people because of hive mentality. Not much better

    Well, I'd say DbD is successful because Friday the 13th The Game was a massive dumpster fire and the public is hungry for an online slasher game. I'm sure Behavior loves the fact that Friday the 13th brought more people on board their game and it failed the way it did.

    If you look at Steam Charts, DbD's number kind of settled out at around 20K. Then Friday the 13th comes out, people play it, get frustrated with how non-functional it is, and they check out DbD. It also helped that Leatherface came out and brought on board more horror fans.

    DbD was successful for a full year before F13 arrived and quickly became irrelevant. I don't doubt it boosted DbD further, however.

  • SnakeSound222SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 4,467

    @Tsulan said:
    You can stealth the doctor. You only scream when you reach a higher lvl of madness or when you are at madness 3. So it´s not impossible to stealth him.
    Same goes for Freddy. You can stealth him before he found you. After that, it´s pretty useless, but then again, stealthing should happen before the killer (any killer) finds you.

    But that's too much work! Just please nerf them instead, BHVR. If you don't then I'll spam your review section with negative reviews until you do!

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 13,214

    @The_Manlet said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @The_Manlet said:
    I think it's way too late to fix anything. The problem is obvious - survivors can loop the killer around for too long, and good survivors are hitting great skillchecks almost constantly so they repair the generators really fast too. You could make killers more deadly in a chase, but that just makes them destroy low rank players, and just makes the strong killers even stronger and the weak killers acceptable at high ranks.

    If they hadn't gone out of their way to dis-incentivize stealth with the addition of the Doctor, Freddy and various anti-stealth perks then it would be feasible to make the survivors less able to loop killers around for days. But that grave has been dug.

    You can stealth the doctor. You only scream when you reach a higher lvl of madness or when you are at madness 3. So it´s not impossible to stealth him.
    Same goes for Freddy. You can stealth him before he found you. After that, it´s pretty useless, but then again, stealthing should happen before the killer (any killer) finds you.

    Expecting the player to completely stealth the doctor and never get into a chase with him is just madness. You have to do unhooks. You have to do generators where stealth really isn't possible.

    Isn´t the whole doctor concept about madness?
    Never had issues with the doctor. He´s annoying at most.
    You can pinpoint where he is, when someone screams and you can SEE his terror radius long before you hear the heartbeat. Once you see the terror radius, just move and hide.
    Even if you can´t stealth against a 3 gen doctor, it´s still possible to finish 1 of them.

  • The_ManletThe_Manlet Member Posts: 474

    @Tsulan said:

    @The_Manlet said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @The_Manlet said:
    I think it's way too late to fix anything. The problem is obvious - survivors can loop the killer around for too long, and good survivors are hitting great skillchecks almost constantly so they repair the generators really fast too. You could make killers more deadly in a chase, but that just makes them destroy low rank players, and just makes the strong killers even stronger and the weak killers acceptable at high ranks.

    If they hadn't gone out of their way to dis-incentivize stealth with the addition of the Doctor, Freddy and various anti-stealth perks then it would be feasible to make the survivors less able to loop killers around for days. But that grave has been dug.

    You can stealth the doctor. You only scream when you reach a higher lvl of madness or when you are at madness 3. So it´s not impossible to stealth him.
    Same goes for Freddy. You can stealth him before he found you. After that, it´s pretty useless, but then again, stealthing should happen before the killer (any killer) finds you.

    Expecting the player to completely stealth the doctor and never get into a chase with him is just madness. You have to do unhooks. You have to do generators where stealth really isn't possible.

    Isn´t the whole doctor concept about madness?
    Never had issues with the doctor. He´s annoying at most.
    You can pinpoint where he is, when someone screams and you can SEE his terror radius long before you hear the heartbeat. Once you see the terror radius, just move and hide.
    Even if you can´t stealth against a 3 gen doctor, it´s still possible to finish 1 of them.

    Move and hide where? He's going to be in anti-stealth mode with a massive terror radius. You probably don't have time to get away even with Urban Evasion.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 13,214

    @The_Manlet said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @The_Manlet said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @The_Manlet said:
    I think it's way too late to fix anything. The problem is obvious - survivors can loop the killer around for too long, and good survivors are hitting great skillchecks almost constantly so they repair the generators really fast too. You could make killers more deadly in a chase, but that just makes them destroy low rank players, and just makes the strong killers even stronger and the weak killers acceptable at high ranks.

    If they hadn't gone out of their way to dis-incentivize stealth with the addition of the Doctor, Freddy and various anti-stealth perks then it would be feasible to make the survivors less able to loop killers around for days. But that grave has been dug.

    You can stealth the doctor. You only scream when you reach a higher lvl of madness or when you are at madness 3. So it´s not impossible to stealth him.
    Same goes for Freddy. You can stealth him before he found you. After that, it´s pretty useless, but then again, stealthing should happen before the killer (any killer) finds you.

    Expecting the player to completely stealth the doctor and never get into a chase with him is just madness. You have to do unhooks. You have to do generators where stealth really isn't possible.

    Isn´t the whole doctor concept about madness?
    Never had issues with the doctor. He´s annoying at most.
    You can pinpoint where he is, when someone screams and you can SEE his terror radius long before you hear the heartbeat. Once you see the terror radius, just move and hide.
    Even if you can´t stealth against a 3 gen doctor, it´s still possible to finish 1 of them.

    Move and hide where? He's going to be in anti-stealth mode with a massive terror radius. You probably don't have time to get away even with Urban Evasion.

    So you get instanly from Madness 2 to 3 when you step on the terror radius of the killer.
    Sure mate, whatever you say.

  • FreudentraumaFreudentrauma Member Posts: 1,050
    edited June 2018

    I personally belong to the group, that would really love to see a DbD 2 one day, that will be designed with several game issues (camping, tunneling, loops, gens) in mind. But we won't see that for a couple of years for now.

    Personally I'm not a huge fan of too much stealth in this game. Nothing is more frustrating/boring as a killer than having to look for survivors while time is running out. There are always gens to be worked on. On the other hand, I understand the frustration that comes with loops and extending chases. I think the main issue is, that the effort to loop and extend chases is just much more rewarding than breaking LoS and sneak away from a killer.
    Would be interesting if chases would be short, but either end with an escape or succesfull down. But I have no idea, how the game needs to be for this to happen. I think we have to accept the game basics, how they are now. Nothing much will change about it, besides certain tweaks.

    @SaltyKiller said:
    If anything, they might make a Switch port to grab a few extra Sheckles.

    I doubt they have the ressources to do so. Switch is significally weaker than the other consoles, which requires extra work to make it run on it. If you look on other Switch ports, then they hired extra teams for it. I think they will stay focused on current versions and cosmetics

  • SomeissuesSomeissues Member Posts: 1,551

    From the Tourney we can see Killers relying on addons are weak by default

    Main picks on the Tourney are Nurse and Billy and Huntress. Nurse and Huntress is the only one solid at high ranks dealing with loops. Billy with huge map control but still doesn't do as well as Nurse and Huntress since he can be looped

    2:29:27

    The dude always plays Trapper and this clearly shows that killers that rely on Addons do not do well at all. He was a Rank 1 killer with legacy and still get rekt. Nurse Huntress and Billy by default without addon can still do well, however, killers that rely on add-ons by default are just bad

    This also shows that without Ruined gens gets done ridiculously quick and that as a Killer you must CAMP and must TUNNEL. if you don't you simply LOSE against high-rank survivors, this is the truth

    The devs should do a tourney on addons + perks next, (No Mori ofc), to see the real high level gameplay of DBD so they can look into it.

    If you are going to balance the game around Rank 20s, like you did with Nerfing Freddy when the majority of us told you not to. Give the killers the ability to Derank back to Rank 20 so we don't have to suffer, we shouldn't be forced to play at higher ranks where the game heavily favors higher-ranked survivors

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,200

    @Khroalthemadbomber said:
    Honestly what could've made the tournament better would have been the addition of allowing certain perks and add-ons.

    For killers: No NOED, No Mori. Everything else fair game.

    For Survivors: No BNP, No Keys, No DS, Everything else good to go.

    Obviously this isn't a perfect idea. Mostly because I've just woken up and the coffee hasn't fully entered my own personal blood web yet (yay for bad dad joke DbD puns), but already I think that an inserting of this in the rules could've added a bit more flavor to the tournament.

    -edit-

    Had an added thought as well. No offerings potentially either side just to keep the map random.

    Changing the no-perk/addons rules to those you suggested would acctually give survivors an additional advantage and we have seen how much advantage they already have

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