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https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/194208

So many anti-SWF posts

135

Comments

  • HoodiedHoodied Member Posts: 9,878

    @JohnTed said:

    @Unnamed_Freak said:

    @JohnTed said:
    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

    Ruin overpowered? Sir, how long do you play this game?

    2 years.
    It depends on LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am always unlucky. I just tried 1 time to demolish totem at start. Most of the time, we demolished the totem at the end of the game.

    Ruin is not op, to be honest, its pretty weak and perks like discordance and thanatophobia out rank it, cause they cannot to taken down by a totem destroyed in the first 2 seconds of the match, not luck, also ruin is countered by stake-out and gen tapping, its not worth bringing, and console players can hit great skill checks easily, believe me, being rank 3 survivor on xbox, I hit greats commonly

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,139

    @JohnTed said:
    2 years, actually 110 hours in total.

    Then it's no surprise that you think Ruin is OP.

    I'll never stop saying this: Only bad Survivors are affected by Ruin.

  • Dwight_FairfieldDwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 3,371
    KingB said:
    The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key. 
    Yes its worked wonders for all the whining about DS.
  • HoodiedHoodied Member Posts: 9,878

    @Dwight_Fairfield said:
    KingB said:

    The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key. 

    Yes its worked wonders for all the whining about DS.

    yeah nothing changed

  • lindechenelindechene Member Posts: 69
    edited February 2019

    tldr Version:

    A difficult choice needs to be made.

    Continue to support SWF game modes but then introduce respawns or other game mechanics so everyone can play for the whole round. = No permanent deaths.

    or

    Come to the conclusion that this specific horror 4vs1 genre relies on the basic idea that a survivor can die. Therefore it would be best to just support queues for solo players for new game modes.


    There can not be enough threads about SWF.

    For me the most important points are:

    1) Everyone could play solo

    All individual SWF players would have the ability to queue up as solo players.
    If SWF would not be supported for some new game modes "reasonable" people interested enough in the core mechanics of the game would simply go back to queuing up solo.
    Some may leave to play something else with their friends but certainly not everyone.


    2) If solo players and killers continue to be driven away the queue times will become longer

    The ability to play with your friends in a 4vs1 game depends that there is still one person playing solo.
    4 SWF - 1 solo Killer
    2 SWF - 2 SWF - 1 solo Killer
    3 SWF - 1 solo Killer - 1 solo Survivor
    2 SWF - 1 solo Killer - 2 solo Survivor


    **3) SWF fosters toxicity when one friend dies first and has to watch for the rest of the game

    Solo players can simply queue up again. SWF players dying are forced to watch and wait for the rest of the match.
    Combining 4vs 1 and SWF could work in a less frustrating way when everyone would be able to continue playing until the end of the round. As long as the objective of Killers remains to kill Survivors and they have no way to respawn this frustration of having to watch your teammates finish the game without you cannot be solved.


    4) Without SWF different game modes could be introduced that shift the available objective when the first survivor dies

    Progress made on generators would carry over to the next phase and less parts would required to be gathered by the three remaining survivors. etc.
    Solo survivors would appreciate longer matches where they get a new chance to escape when the first survivor dies.
    SWF players do not want that because then they would even have to wait longer until the next game starts.


    5) Balancing around solo players

    It can not be helped that some random people will find ways to invite other survivors into audio chats from the lobby. But just because some people will find ways to trick the system the solution is not to simply create the whole game around those.

    The game could be balanced for random solo survivors teamed up in order to survive the challenges ahead.


    6) There are enough other games out there who are intended to be played with your friends.

    People who want to play with friends have a huge selection of games to choose from.
    People who want to queue up as solo players with random strangers have not much choice.
    The survival horror based core mechanics of DbD could work best without voice communication.


    It probably would not work to remove SWF from the current existing "generator repair" game mode available now.
    What could work is to insist on solo queues for new game modes in the future.


  • PinkErickaPinkEricka Member Posts: 1,042

    @PinkEricka said:
    @Nickenzie Two separate party queues was already discussed a long time ago though. It would cause long wait times for SWF because no killers would want to go against them. They’ll look out for people loading in together and just dodge, same as always.

    SWF isn’t that hard to beat. I’ve seen plenty of [BAD WORD] SWF teams plenty of times. I’ve yet to see this full blown out death squad that’s here to embarrass the killer.

    Really? Because I'm only on my third week of playing killer and I've seen them multiple times. The new death squad is a squad with like 4 toolboxes and prove thyself.

    On topic: I used to really like SWF, but then my friends moved onto better games and I switched to playing killer and realized how [BAD WORD] up SWF is.

    @mintchapstick If you see 4 toolboxes, just dodge or bring FD. lol.
  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,206

    @JohnTed said:

    @Unnamed_Freak said:

    @JohnTed said:
    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

    Ruin overpowered? Sir, how long do you play this game?

    2 years.
    It depends on LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am always unlucky. I just tried 1 time to demolish totem at start. Most of the time, we demolished the totem at the end of the game.

    Ruin doesnt depend on luck at all.
    Its literally a git gud issue until you hit the skillchecks

  • GorgoniaGorgonia Member Posts: 1,111
    Master said:

    @JohnTed said:

    @Unnamed_Freak said:

    @JohnTed said:
    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

    Ruin overpowered? Sir, how long do you play this game?

    2 years.
    It depends on LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am always unlucky. I just tried 1 time to demolish totem at start. Most of the time, we demolished the totem at the end of the game.

    Ruin doesnt depend on luck at all.
    Its literally a git gud issue until you hit the skillchecks

    It can be hard on PS4 but you will get there with practice
  • LCGasterLCGaster Member Posts: 3,154

    Killer main right here. I don't have any problem with SWF, except the toxicity

  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,320

    @lindechene said:
    Come to the conclusion that this specific horror 4vs1 genre relies on the basic idea that a survivor can die. Therefore it would be best to just support queues for solo players for new game modes.

    A game that gets voted "Best Played With Friends".. after 2 years of release.... Shouldn't be making game modes that support playing with Friends?... but should take another route to make queues only for solo players?

    The Devs have not yet, after 2 years, released any game mode into the game.

    @lindechene said:
    1) Everyone could play solo

    All individual SWF players would have the ability to queue up as solo players.
    If SWF would not be supported for some new game modes "reasonable" people interested enough in the core mechanics of the game would simply go back to queuing up solo.
    Some may leave to play something else with their friends but certainly not everyone.

    Do you have any idea the amount of the community that play SWF? I don't know.. but the last time they released that stat is was about half. Which has probably increased since then.

    Skipping point 2.. nothing to be said there.

    @lindechene said:
    **3) SWF fosters toxicity when one friend dies first and has to watch for the rest of the game

    Solo players can simply queue up again. SWF players dying are forced to watch and wait for the rest of the match.
    Combining 4vs 1 and SWF could work in a less frustrating way when everyone would be able to continue playing until the end of the round. As long as the objective of Killers remains to kill Survivors and they have no way to respawn this frustration of having to watch your teammates finish the game without you cannot be solved.

    Too bad for the SWF player. Who cares if the SWF player who was killed has to wait. That is the price you pay when playing SWF. Don't play SWF if that is an issue. Sometimes the rest of your SWF party will just bail out of the match. The SWF player can queue up as solo and play another match while they wait, or get a sandwich.

    @lindechene said:
    4) Without SWF different game modes could be introduced that shift the available objective when the first survivor dies

    Progress made on generators would carry over to the next phase and less parts would required to be gathered by the three remaining survivors. etc.
    Solo survivors would appreciate longer matches where they get a new chance to escape when the first survivor dies.
    SWF players do not want that because then they would even have to wait longer until the next game starts.

    Would be nice to get some game modes... but after 2 years, I doubt the Devs are going to do any of this. However when Dedicated Servers come in... Maybe... But I'm not holding my breath. However solo queues won't work, unless the Devs make it so players can't see who is in their lobbies. To prevent players from dodging lobbies until they get their friends.

    @lindechene said:
    5) Balancing around solo players

    It can not be helped that some random people will find ways to invite other survivors into audio chats from the lobby. But just because some people will find ways to trick the system the solution is not to simply create the whole game around those.

    The game could be balanced for random solo survivors teamed up in order to survive the challenges ahead.

    So balance around solo players because?... They can't communicate in the lobby chat or add other players during the match in Steam and give out discord information for VOIP.

    So balance around solo?... When you admit that people will find ways to circumvent the rules so they can be on VOIP.

    So why not balance around players who are on VOIP?... Then buff solo players?

    @lindechene said:
    6) There are enough other games out there who are intended to be played with your friends.

    People who want to play with friends have a huge selection of games to choose from.
    People who want to queue up as solo players with random strangers have not much choice.
    The survival horror based core mechanics of DbD could work best without voice communication.

    So bascially.. if you want to play with your friends... Then just play another game?... So push back on more then half the DBD community and stop them from playing with their friends? So kill the game basically?

    One from BHVR who shall remain nameless told people to play another game when they were feeling burned out on DBD... Look what happened there... Now you want the Devs to officially tell everyone, if you want to play with a friend... Go play another game. Yeah... OK.

    @lindechene said:
    It probably would not work to remove SWF from the current existing "generator repair" game mode available now.
    What could work is to insist on solo queues for new game modes in the future.

    Getting rid of SWF won't work. Having solo queue game modes would be ok, if they prevented players from seeing who was in your lobby to prevent survivors from lobby dodging.

    However when the game gets voted.. Best Played With Friends... I don't think the Devs will be taking the approach of excluding friends from DBD. In fact... I could see them embracing it more fully. If you playerbase says they enjoy playing with their friends... Then why would you kick them in the teeth and not make heir game revolve around it.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 7,059
    edited February 2019

    @Nickenzie said:
    DelsKibara said:

    @Delfador said:

    There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

    I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

    I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

    SWF Changes:

    Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

    Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.

    Can the killer choose whether they go into the SWF or Solo que's and are they both ranked?

  • Rebel_RavenRebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,654
    edited February 2019

    @SenzuDuck said:
    Don't worry about it - all the decent killers who don't care are playing the game.

    It's only the bad ones on the forum complaining about it honestly.

    That is something I noticed as well in the Steam forums actually.
    People who often cry about SWF being a problem often don't have the Rank 10 Killer or Survivor Achievements.
    Like, we get that you are frustrated, but why are you complaining about a feature in the game when you haven't even played enough to get the Rank 10 achievements on both sides?

    If I had to guess, it's because people use SWF as a way to depip without having to actually depip like a killer has to.
    They aim for people who haven't even reached rank 10 for easier games. Easy games even easier. 
    This makes them way more common than in the people beyond 10.
    This makes it more difficult for people to get BP to get the arsenal people take for granted when facing SWF.
    I mean even good, or great killers struggle without the right perks against SWF. What happens when someone is just average without the right perks?

    And because SWF can abuse matchmaking to get easier games, people woefully under prepared continually have to vs people with stacked loadouts,  the advantage of voice comms (aka numerous free perks), coordinated maneuvers, and so forth.

    Iirc, currently 70 percent of lobbies have at the minimum, 2 man SWF.
    The game is not balanced for SWF, but SWF is extremely common. 

    I think frustration might be an understatement. 
  • MhhBurgersMhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,776

    @Kamikaze_Rose said:
    We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.  :|

    I will stop complaining about SWF once we get a 2 killer mode, which will probably be never since BHVR doesn't seem to be able to code something that a mobile game did.

  • lindechenelindechene Member Posts: 69

    Do you have any idea the amount of the community that play SWF? I don't know.. but the last time they released that stat is was about half. Which has probably increased since then.

    It does not matter how big the part of the community is that is currently playing SWF.
    ALL of them can queue up solo.


    However solo queues won't work, unless the Devs make it so players can't see who is in their lobbies. To prevent players from dodging lobbies until they get their friends.

    This whole practice of dodging loobies to "find" your friends only worked when DbD was released because in the beginning the player base was very small.

    With dedicated servers there could be a simple solution to that as well:

    Every time people dodge a lobby their priority in matchmaking gets lowered and a penalty queue time is added.


    So bascially.. if you want to play with your friends... Then just play another game?... So push back on more then half the DBD community and stop them from playing with their friends? So kill the game basically?

    Again, every single one of the SWF players can continue to play the game solo.

    My impression is:

    For new solo survivors it is not fun to play this game because they are outmatched not only in skill but also in perks, addons offerings. Instead of feeling part of a team they are just there to fill the empty slot so SWF teams can then farm them or leave them on the hook to die while they finish their generators.

    For new killers it is not fun to play this game because voice communications give away the killer location at any time and defeat the whole threat of not knowing where the killer is.

    If more and more solo killers and survivors leave then surely this game will be dead.

    IF the veterans want this game to survive then they should finally acknowledge that without solo players this game can not work.

  • mintchapstickmintchapstick Member Posts: 592

    @PinkEricka said:
    @mintchapstick If you see 4 toolboxes, just dodge or bring FD. lol.

    I've only been playing killer for a couple of weeks,. I don't have FD & I try not to dodge lobbies because of the long wait for survivors, but.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 7,289
    RWoodrow said:
    Nickenzie said:

    @Delfador said:
    There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

    I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

    I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

    SWF Changes:

    Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

    Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
    @Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?
    Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

    First: 15 seconds
    Second: 30 seconds
    Third: 1 minute
    Fourth: 5 minutes
    Fifth: 10 minutes
    Etc etc etc...
  • NathanExplosionNathanExplosion Member Posts: 337
    edited February 2019

    @Nickenzie said:

    Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

    First: 15 seconds
    Second: 30 seconds
    Third: 1 minute
    Fourth: 5 minutes
    Fifth: 10 minutes
    Etc etc etc...

    You know what ?

    I actually think it could be good to add this into the game.

    Really, with this at least, the last few peoples willing to play killer would finally stop playing, and the Devs will maybe finally do something.

  • fcc2014fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,348

    @mintchapstick said:

    @PinkEricka said:
    @mintchapstick If you see 4 toolboxes, just dodge or bring FD. lol.

    I've only been playing killer for a couple of weeks,. I don't have FD & I try not to dodge lobbies because of the long wait for survivors, but.

    You by not dodging are getting experience by playing all types. It sucks at first but you will get better because of it. You become more efficient as a killer.

  • M_A_R_K_23M_A_R_K_23 Member Posts: 1

    At this point I've given up complaning about SWF if it's a 2-3 man, I'll just play normally, if it's a 4 man I'll whip out the trusty ol' Insidious LF with IG and Agitation. If you can't beat the toxcicity... join it.


    Just play more aware of team plays like body blocking, pallet stuns FL saves ect. No need to play basment bubba just because of swf. You'll never get better at your normal playstyle doing that. Also how is playing in a SWF group toxic? I understand players in swf can be or do toxic things but so can solos.

  • KingBKingB Member Posts: 747
    @fcc2014 I never said delete swf. I'm saying it's broken in its current state and killers stand little chance against co-coordinated swf groups. How about if players also git gud and stop relying on crutch perks and voice comms? 
  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300
    edited February 2019

    @Gorgonia said:
    It is not actually cheating. You are not abusing a forbidden feature or an exploit.

    If we legalise everything, we no longer have to worry about criminals breaking the law (;

    Edit: In games like Town of Salem, they actually ban for using 3rd party software, and yes, they have a friend inviting system there too! The question is; would that be the right approach for DBD?

  • fcc2014fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,348

    @KingB said:
    @fcc2014 I never said delete swf. I'm saying it's broken in its current state and killers stand little chance against co-coordinated swf groups. How about if players also git gud and stop relying on crutch perks and voice comms? 

    those "crutch perks' and voice comms have been around for 2 years as have swf. Pretty sure they are not going anywhere. Adapt or Die. Play more killer and more variety of lobbies. Coordinated swf groups are fewer and far between than people want to admit.

  • GorgoniaGorgonia Member Posts: 1,111

    @Gorgonia said:
    It is not actually cheating. You are not abusing a forbidden feature or an exploit.

    If we legalise everything, we no longer have to worry about criminals breaking the law (;

    Edit: In games like Town of Salem, they actually ban for using 3rd party software, and yes, they have a friend inviting system there too! The question is; would that be the right approach for DBD?

    You can make voice chats on your phone now
  • KingBKingB Member Posts: 747
    @fcc2014 That doesn't mean it's any less broken. They aren't and shouldn't be removed entirely. They should either be nerfed or killers should be given compensation to compete. If devs allow the imbalance to remain for so long wouldnt logic dictate people would want to avoid it eventually? Instead of worrying about lobby dodging we should worry about why people dodge the lobbies in the first place. 
  • fcc2014fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,348

    @KingB said:
    @fcc2014 That doesn't mean it's any less broken. They aren't and shouldn't be removed entirely. They should either be nerfed or killers should be given compensation to compete. If devs allow the imbalance to remain for so long wouldnt logic dictate people would want to avoid it eventually? Instead of worrying about lobby dodging we should worry about why people dodge the lobbies in the first place. 

    Solo players need to be buffed to swf as far as have access to the same amount of info and Killers need to be adjusted accordingly through Buff to perks, addons, offerings and even potentially additional perk slots or maybe have built in perks like NOED, Blood Warden, Monstrous Shrine. Players Lobby dodge for ridiculous reasons. When the game came out on PS4 in the first month I was P3 and could never wear it for months because i got dodged. I wasn't in swf. i just solo qued sometimes the first or second in and i got dodged. People dodge flashlights, toolboxes, medkits etc. Survivors dc when the killer burns a secret offering.

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 5,875

    @AlphaJackson said:
    At this point I've given up complaning about SWF if it's a 2-3 man, I'll just play normally, if it's a 4 man I'll whip out the trusty ol' Insidious LF with IG and Agitation. If you can't beat the toxcicity... join it.

    What if it's not a toxic SWF but they just look toxic.

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