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Give an honest answer BHVR, why do we need to pay a prestige tax at all?

TruEternityTruEternity Member Posts: 320

So BHVR devs, straight answer, why do we even need to pay bloodpoints to prestige? Even if it's 1 bp why even do that? There is already enough to grind for in the game, you do not need to keep an arbitrary bloodpoint tax.


  • SekiSekiSekiSeki Member Posts: 514

    They already addressed this elsewhere, in another thread. I don't remember the exact answer but something along the lines of it being the numbers they aimed for. Honestly don't have an issue with it, the game needs some grind to it.

    I'll look and see if I can find the post.

  • jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 4,201

    I'm not an employee of BHVR, but I think I understand the thought process. I think it goes like this:

    Right now, you have to spend BP to unlock teachables, then go continue to spend BP until those teachables show up again and then spend BP to actually obtain those teachables. Repeat the second two steps for every single character that you want those perks on. This way, though, you pay upfront to completely eliminate those second two steps for one perk tier of all three teachables.

    The total sum of BP spent isn't really why the grind is so annoying, it's that you have to cycle through RNG to actually see those perks show up again on every character you have. This way, the RNG is either dramatically reduced (if you only prestige once) or completely removed (if you prestige three times).

    Now, personally, I'm still not a huge fan of this tax, but I do see how it'd make sense. It's rebalancing where you spend BP to make it much, much less frustrating. Since they lowered it to something you can feasibly earn in a single match, I think it's mostly fine.

  • MooksMooks Member Posts: 11,436

    Just because you find it dumb or don’t agree with it doesn’t make it a half answer.

  • SekiSekiSekiSeki Member Posts: 514

    Yeah it really sounds like you are haha.

    Bruh, the grind is so much less now, I don't get your argument.

  • MooksMooks Member Posts: 11,436

    well. What other logical answer would you even accept at this point? You made it pretty clear that you don’t agree with it (and neither do I)

    but that doesn’t make the answer any less true from their perspective.

  • TruEternityTruEternity Member Posts: 320

    I didn't say it wasn't true, it's a half truth. I want to know why adding a terrible feeling bp tax was the best way to go. I want an actual in depth answer, not just "muh economy". I know I likely will just get the same half answer, if I even get one at all, but I figured it was worth a shot since I hate the tax so much.

  • TragicSolitudeTragicSolitude Member Posts: 6,048

    The answer is because they're not trying to reduce the overall grind. They've reduced the required grind, the grind for perks, and they've reduced the RNG element of unlocking perks.

    While reducing the required grind, they've upped the voluntary grind by showing prestige and capping it at a near-unreachable P100. They don't want people to easily reach that number and max out. The Bloodweb level resets at 1 every time you prestige, so less BP is required than if they were always at level 50, so they had to increase the amount of BP spent somehow. In that regard, a 20k BP tax isn't so bad. Certainly better than 50k. Do we want any tax? Of course not. It sucks that we're paying BP and getting nothing in return for it.

  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,397

    because "economy", even though it's broken already.

  • Hex_LlamaHex_Llama Member Posts: 1,553

    Yeah, I don't like the idea of having to grind for nothing. At least when you spend your points on perks or add-ons, you're getting something in exchange that you might actually want. In this case, you're being forced to spend points to do something mandatory that you have no choice about and that makes your blood web worse for the next few turns. So it just feels like losing points you earned for no reason.

  • SekiSekiSekiSeki Member Posts: 514
    edited July 13

    That's a good way to put it.

    Edited: We are getting the bragging right of an extra prestige that people seem to love so much. That is where your 20k is going. I really don't have a problem with it.

  • MrPeanutbutterMrPeanutbutter Member Posts: 1,098

    They wanted to make us feel like they were reducing the grind, then they did things to make it worse again like removing BP bonus for BBQ/WGLF and adding this prestige “tax”

  • CybilCybil Member Posts: 1,125

    When it was 50k I was worried.

    20k is nothing imo.

  • TruEternityTruEternity Member Posts: 320
    edited July 13

    Maybe they wanted it at 20k all along and they put it high so when they “fixed” it people would accept it. I don’t, it ridiculous and needs to go, there should be no required BP to prestige.

    Also 20k is an average survivor game.

  • CybilCybil Member Posts: 1,125

    "20k is an average survivor game"

    You mean I'm supposed to be getting more than 9k every match?

  • TruEternityTruEternity Member Posts: 320

    If people/you brought BP offerings, you should get 15-20k by the time you’re camped and tunneled.

  • PizzamanPizzaman Member Posts: 481
    edited July 13

    20k is at least 1 game. 1 game that you have to play, just to earn the blood points in order to pay the prestige-tax/penalty. That's not even considering earning the blood points to progress through the blood web.

    The 50k were unnecessary, and the 20k are still unnecessary. Prestige is not optional anymore, so there shouldn't be a prestige-tax/penalty. BHVR introduced the prestige tiers to get people to prestige their favorite characters. Why are people that prestige a char penalized for doing so? You have to prestige to open a new blood web, and as such, you're also forced to pay the prestige tax. That penalty is forced on you. Imagine that.

    What a weird idea that penalty is. Reducing the grind by doing some things + introducing an arbitrary tax/penalty that requires grind. This just feels so out of place. I can't even comprehend the thought process behind it.

    Those 20k will do nothing but anger people and are an inconvenience (something you don't want to have in a game, like: unstable lobbies, not being able to access the ingame shop and/or rift while being in a lobby, etc.). They should remove inconveniences from the game, not deliberately add them.

  • CybilCybil Member Posts: 1,125

    I understand the frustration. I also prefer a system without the bp tax. It's just that I find 20k to be very manageable.

    If we're going to live forever still had its stacks I'd say that getting 20k would be comparable to a tome challenge. Without those stacks it's just a slight hindrance.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 3,185
    edited July 13

    like others have said, getting nothing for it is the big issue. if it was still 50k but i got one of each addon as killer it wouldn't matter at all. If you got one of each item and one addon per item as survivor it also wouldn't matter. the 20k is being used to just straight up lock you out from any further progression until the tax is paid, and you don't get a tax return in exchange. Those BP just vanish into the wind, and you are hardstuck until you pay it. You could argue that previously you would be stuck preventing progression if you refused to finish a bloodweb, but even worthless offerings or expired event nodes that no longer work are still more than literal nothing.

    Also don't forget, no more BBQ or WGLF bonuses, which would help tremendously with that specific tax. the cap might have gone from 32k to 40k, but it actually went from 64k with a 1-2x multiplier to 40k with no multiplier.

  • TragicSolitudeTragicSolitude Member Posts: 6,048
    edited July 13

    like others have said, getting nothing for it is the big issue.

    Exactly, the devs attempted to "negotiate" with the ridiculous starting value of 50k, so 20k looks great in comparison, but players still get nothing in return for those Bloodpoints.

    A real negotiation that might actually make people happy would be:

    1. For the first 9 prestige levels, leave it as is with the 20k "tax," since the player is indeed unlocking something.
    2. From prestige 10 on, remove the tax, start the Bloodweb at level 10 instead of level 1 so that players get a bunch of level 50 Bloodwebs before the next prestige. That surely increases the amount spent per prestige level by more than 20k, and let's be honest most of what players get will still be worthless junk they'll never use, but at least they'll be getting something in return for the Bloodpoints.
  • APoipleTurtleAPoipleTurtle Member Posts: 1,275

    Alternatively, they could just remove the tax entirely and increase the size of low-level post-prestige bloodwebs (costing slightly more to complete while offering more stuff).

    IMO that'd be a lot more satisfying, especially with their planned tweaks to node rarity at earlier levels.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 3,185
    edited July 13

    The more I think about it, I think part of the reason why the BP for nothing thing feels so bad is because of the way that each web requires players to buy things they don't want to get to things they do want, or even just to complete the web. After spending 50 webs buying dozens upon dozens of things you see nearly zero value in, you're required to get actual zero value from a cost that is over 600% the cost of the least expensive node. How about this: have players sacrifice 3 items/addons/offerings of their own choice to the entity to move on to the next web instead? maybe even make it so it starts at 1 and goes up with each prestige?

    I don't care who you are and how versatile your builds are, everyone will have 3 things from among 50 webs they will not feel the need to hold on to, especially regarding offerings. Still requires a sacrifice of some kind to continue (and is even thematic!) but feels more like a refund for wasted BP than being forced to waste even more BP in a manner thats... even more wasteful.

  • SmarulKusiaSmarulKusia Member Posts: 753

    They said due to the grind reduction, this is 'their way' of micro managing BP and progression basically

    It was a corporate response w ######### reasoning really.

  • TruEternityTruEternity Member Posts: 320

    I’m glad to see I’m not the only one bothered by their non answer and extremely poor logic behind the change.

    Its extremely frustrating to be told that they want to reduce the grind yet add a feature that just feels like a scam. There are so many other things they could have done, yet they chose a tax that contributes nothing to your progression besides a roadblock is unbelievably player unfriendly. Then the only answer that we’re given is it’s to balance out the BP economy, which is a simple and unsatisfying answer. Why is it need to balance it out? We already lost the BP boosts from bbq and wglf, yet we need more progression slowing mechanics? I don’t care if they reduced it to 20k, there shouldn’t be a charge for prestige at all.

  • BwstedBwsted Member Posts: 3,059

    "Because we just put it there without having a single good reason for it and now we can't just backtrack and save face. So, pay up and shut up."

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