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If you want camping to stop then killers need basekit rewards

EntitySpawnEntitySpawn Member Posts: 3,711
edited July 13 in Feedback and Suggestions

I see so many complaints about tunneling and camping (which is a massively over used term and people scream it even when it's not actually happening)

But you cant expect killers to play in a way that isn't rewarding and all round harder way especially when people are actually playing the game efficiently.

Things like a baby corrupt and a baby Scourage pain so it helps killers at the start and rewards them per hook along side punishments to camping etc. Who go down better

Also maybe if you didnt t-bag or click at the exit because the killer tried to play more fair and didnt get a kill... you're just making them want kills more than hooks and your "fun"

Until the SBMM is changed or killers are rewarded for hooks these playstyles wont go anywhere.

Side note to hookers: if you still try for hooks, well done you! While I dont see you at high mmr I'm glad you still exist ! but dont hinder your fun before ours. You're allowed try to win even through camping (just dont be toxic about it and you'll get a gg regardless from me)

Post edited by Rizzo on

Comments

  • deKlaw_04deKlaw_04 Member Posts: 3,660

    They can make gens take 5 minutes and there will still be camping and tunneling

  • EntitySpawnEntitySpawn Member Posts: 3,711

    Because you're going wrong about it just like the devs, you're providing a buff which helps camping as well meanwhile if you gave base changes that awarded hooks and multiple of them going for many hooks would be more rewarding and enticing.

    I dont play killer anymore because I have to play these tactics or I lose and i dont play to lose and be taunted about it...

    But yes there will always be some players that play like it, theres millions of players but if you punish camping as well as rewarding those who dont youd get it far far less

  • TiufalTiufal Member Posts: 1,252

    Thats exactly the wrong way of development. You have to shut down the possibilties to camp and tunnel as it is now, cause this is just too simple to do and just frustrating for the other side. Afterwards you can try balancing out each side, but as long as you hae this flaws, its never gonna be better as people are just able to do it.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,457
    edited July 13

    Maybe if camping and tunnelling were a form of cheating, sure, but they're not, they're in the game by design. You cannot dictate how others want to play the game. The killer is simply defending their objectives, it just happens that defending them in this way isn't very enjoyable for the other side.

    You know something that's not fun for the killer? Flashlight saves. Why should the killer be cheated out of their hook when they've picked up the survivor. Maybe this possibility needs to be shut down, and flashlights can only be used to blind and not stun?

    By all means introduce measures that make not camping and tunnelling more effective strategies, but the option should always be there.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 5,144

    Killers are getting a bunch of baseline buffs already with this upcoming patch. And they surely will be more impactful than the nerfs to certain killer meta perks.

    But that alone won't do the trick. You also have to nerf camping and tunneling, preferably to the ground. If killers will need further buffs to compensate for this, then the devs should do that as well. But camping and tunneling will also need to be nerfed a lot, so they aren't nearly as effective strategies as they currently are.

  • KsekwlothreftisKsekwlothreftis Member Posts: 63

    Bro stop cyrcle jerking these so called killer basekit buffs. They are useless. Its 0.3 , 0.26 and 0.2 seconds off. The survivors have plenty of time to go to another god loop after they were hit or the killer broke the one of many god pallets in every map. Nobody considered brutal strength or stbfl as meta or strong but we can all agree how popular and useful bt was. This update isnt killer sided. U are just salty u lost all your ridiculously op perks. Well so did the killers but the amount of complaints from the survivors is much bigger.

    On another note, if u want to nerf tunnelling and camping to the ground dont expect any killer that isnt new or "playing for fun" to continue playing a game they cannot realistically win if the opposite side is on the same level with them

  • akaTheBARONakaTheBARON Member Posts: 268
    edited July 14

    Camping/tunneling are the lowest common denominator of "strategies" ... and unless the game puts in measures that simply make it not worth it, killers who do those things now, will continue to do so regardless of how the game is made easier. Period.

    Give them basekit rewards, they will continue to do so. And... once these rewards are no longer new, they will take getting them for granted, and just find other reasons as to why "this is why killers camp/tunnel" and do just that.

    Its people wanting easy kills for the most part, not wanting to learn to loop. Sure, some maps are just ass for some killers being way too big. But tunneling/camping at its core is just people wanting to play the game on easy when looping is too hard. Or they dedicated way too much time on their first chase because their ego made them just HAVE to catch that survivor, and when they did 2-3 were "genrushed" (killers fault when that happens) and now they feel behind. Or they just want to be toxic but I mean... what can you do XD

    PS, yes I play killer.

  • AdjathaAdjatha Member Posts: 1,625

    Removing the tokens from BBQ was the single worst idea they had in this perk overhaul. There is now zero reason why you won't just get the same guy multi-hooked every time.

    If you don't like tunneling, be sure you register your complaints with the Devs. BBQ tokens gotta be basekit (or at least come back to the perk).

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 929

    "Camping/tunneling are the lowest common denominator of "strategies"

    So why do survivors do it? Why do they camp generators and tunnel them out of the game? Oh right - they do it the same reason killers do. Removing a survivor/generator is a discreet part of your objective that cannot be undone. One real quick way to make killers not camp is to allow them to regress completed generators.


    You literally have no idea what you are talking about as the very best DBD streamers slug/tunnel and camp to secure kills to clinch a game.


    You're incredibly brave for saying this. You're right by the way - killers need base kit rewards for hooking. You know what's funny? You dont get we're gonna live forever, or borrowed time if you slug. Since Pop and Scourge hook pain res are dead - the next patch might go back to a slug meta.


    I still say killers should get something like this for basekit : if you are 16m away from a hooked survivor then the generator with the most progress remains blocked to survivors until that survivor dies or is rescued as long as you are 16m away from the hook.

  • akaTheBARONakaTheBARON Member Posts: 268

    Well if streamers do it, it must be the way to do it right? Also, tunneling/camping IS the easiest strategy, thats why new/bad killers do it. So what if "pros" on stream do it too? They don't just do it at 5 gens. I never said there isn't a time for it. Gens are flying by and you have to put some pressure, tunnel someone out. EGC, camping is the smart play. But the "pros' don't just do it at 5 gens. If the streamers you watch just camp/tunnel right out of the gate, and you're considering them the best DBD streamers then that tells me you simply camp/tunnel as your go-to and don't watch streamers who can actually play the game very well.

    And regressing finished gens? So survivors can get back hook states too then or? Nah LOL You just want easy 4Ks, there is no shortage of killers like that. A gen is done, its done. A survivor is dead, they're dead.

    I've never been like 'well they successfully finished that gen but it's bull I can't kick it and make it regress."

    Also "camping" generators is simply DOING generators. Maybe its both of us don't know what we're talking about though XD

    You give killers all the base kit rewards you want, they'll never be happy and will still tunnel/camp cuz its just easier. Same for survivors. They cry about the game being unfair just as much. You can give them all the base kit BT or whatever else. They will still call anything and everything tunneling.

    Tell you what, I'll write BHVR an email, and ask them if they can make the game 4 v 2, that way killers can double up making the game twice as easy. Maybe that will be a big enough "reward" for killers to not ever camp/tunnel?

  • OnyxOnyx Member Posts: 214

    You know what you still get to do after being flashlight saved? Play the freaking match and get into chases and earn points. You know what you can do as survivor after they are camped and tunneled out of the game? Nothing. No more participating in the match, no more BP, nothing. It's why using BP offerings as survivor is not worth it really, it's basically a gamble.

  • FeryGENFeryGEN Member Posts: 445

    Toxicity means that the survivor wants to die as soon as possible, everyone knows that if you are toxic, then the survivor should be grateful for the camp and the fact that you paid attention to him and tunnel him. I have spoken

  • TheUnknownTheUnknown Member Posts: 16

    Brother, I love how people tend to see camping only as that one Bubba that just stands below your feet just waiting to trigger a chainsaw and they still have the nerve to say if you put somebody on a hook you're supposed to forget they are even there.

    There's a video from Lilith Omen who is a Blight main, where he gets 50 wins in a row with Blight and you can see his play style in almost every map, he puts somebody on a hook, run to hit another guy yet he usually comes back to check if someone is saving the hooked person. This is considered "proxy camping" or something from the survivor rule book which everybody show set fire to and throw it in the trash.

    Hell, even the devs said themselves "camping is a valid strategy for the killer to secure a kill" and it absolutely is, if you stay there all game you will lose, if you keep returning to the hook to get hits on people who attempt to save the hooked survivor, you're just applying even more pressure.

    My point in all of this is: people tend to yell camp even when you're not in fact camping, as a killer you need to capitalize on every single opportunity or you will lose anyway, it isn't a big deal to for example force a survivor to enter hook phase 2 because nobody could save them in time. People tend to forget that you need to ######### up twice to go down, twice more for the second hook stage, twice more to be dead without even counting a godly timed Dead Hard's (specially now with 0.5 secs you will need godly instincts to activate it at the right time but if you do there's nothing the killer can do about it) and other perks, protection hits, instaheals, endurance medkits and more. The killers capitalize where they can.

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 929
    edited July 16

    "if streamers do it, it must be the way to do it right?"

    This is an illogical statement and I'm not going to address that further. The point is that the very best streamers with tons of game knowledge know how to apply the most pressure when they really want to - and that is through camping/slugging/tunneling. You want to imply that streamers are bad at the game. I am referring to some of the very best most skilled killer streamers with hour counts in the 5k-9k range. None of them are Bad. All of them recognize the power of camping when they need it to win.

    You call it low skill when in reality it is the best way to punish the survivors to get off generators. That might sound counter intuitive; If you get off gens early and make a focused 2-3 man unhook then you will safely get that unhook. If you wait until there are 15 seconds left for stage two the killer will wait for that to "punish" the gen rush.


    Survivors who cry about camping either do not understand the game well enough to understand why this happens or just get mad that they rush their objective without expecting the killer to do the same.


    "You give killers all the base kit rewards you want, they'll never be happy and will still tunnel/camp cuz its just easier"


    I can't speak for everyone but what I want is a fair game. Most of the maps are unfair. Most of the pallets are unfair. Playing vs SWF is unfair. Most people I know don't play killer because they can't handle mid tier survivors much less high tier.


    Camping happens most often when a killer feels "behind". Chases are too long or gens are too fast at high MMR. It's not fun to watch streamers play killer or play killer yourself when there are two or three hooks when the gens are all finished. The game needs a fundamental timing rework to balance the efficiency of high level play.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • TheUnknownTheUnknown Member Posts: 16

    Tunneling/camping IS the easiest strategy, thats why new/bad killers do it.

    So... You're calling "strategy" sitting in a spot and just waiting to kill 1 out of 4 survivors? New players do it because new survivors are clueless enough to go attempt a save with the killer 3 feet away.

    You give killers all the base kit rewards you want, they'll never be happy and will still tunnel/camp cuz its just easier.

    Is it though? Is waiting for a guy to die through all hook phases while simply not playing the game easier to get you a win? Hell, I guess I've been playing this game wrong struggling for a 3k when I could just put a guy on hook and wait right next to him for me to win the game.

    You say there's no shortage of killers whining about not getting 4K's every game while BHVR LITERALLY SAID killers have been getting way fewer kills than intended, so that probably means something right? There's also no shortage of those survivors that got off the hook 2 seconds ago, touched a generator in front of the killer, got downed and hooked again just to whine about being tunneled/camped at the endgame chat.

    The same way you find toxic killers that want 4k every game you find entitled survivors with god complex that think they should escape every game.

  • akaTheBARONakaTheBARON Member Posts: 268

    do you not know putting quotes around strategy like "strategy" means I'm not validating it as an actual strategy right? Its a strategy, that involves very little strategy. And just because BHVR said kill rates are lower than they like doesn't mean people aren't getting easy 4K with facecamping.

    Killers actually going out of their way to actually play the game are the reason for these numbers "lower than they'd like" and the issues they're facing should be addressed. But they didn't say "camping and tunneling results in fewer kills than they'd like"

    And sure, I never said survivors don't have their share of crybabies. I play both sides so I always comment as someone who plays the game in general. I have a perspective for both.

  • TheUnknownTheUnknown Member Posts: 16
    edited July 16

    And you do understand the lack of simple logic in the statement "easy 4k face camping" right? If you facecamp you lost the game, unless the survivors themselves want to throw the game at your feet.

    Lmfao even with NOED+Blood Warden combo, getting 4k simply by standing still camping is just NEVER happening unless you're a Bubba with everybody simply standing still grouped together for you to chainsaw through.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • akaTheBARONakaTheBARON Member Posts: 268
    edited July 16

    Sure, face campers never get 4Ks. Cuz solo queue isn't a thing. You never get face camped and get teammates that just crouch near the hook wasting time instead of gen rushing like they should.

    And who stands still with NOED? Yeah, go ahead and bring in as many other perks to this conversation to make your argument relevant.

    Oh, P.S. Bubba is one of the main killers used for it, but go ahead and think that's rare. And whether they get 4K's or not, they still do it to try to get a 4k, bc standing there is easier than actually chasing survivors.

    You on the one hand say facecamping is an automatic L for killers, then you got the other in here saying the top dbd streamers use it as their tactic to get wins. You camping "experts" are all over the place.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • AkumakajiAkumakaji Member Posts: 2,849

    Really, the change to BBQ is a really sad one. While I understand that they want to step away from BP rewards, they should have thrown something else in to sweeten the deal, like a +4% base speed bonus for 10s after hooking as long as you move away from the hook, encouraging you to chase after some distant survivor you just saw.

    Also, nothing chases you away from the hook as something juicy like Devour Hope. Good Devour games are rare and far between, but they are pretty exciting, at least for the killer. Sadly the state of Hexes right now makes it very unreliable and not exactly viable to play. BUT some base-buffs build around the Devour mechanic could absolutely work. Of course I am not talking about exposed status effect or something like that, but some base buffs for a killer who actively walks away and is 24m away when the unhooking takes place, without shooting the killer in the foot.

    Maybe this could be a random blessing of The Entity, chosen from a small pool of buffs or survivor debuffs that shouldn't be super impactful, but at least more fun then camping 2min. Maybe block the gens that are getting worked at for 5s and so also giving the killer a objective, or hindering the survivors not involved with the unhooking for 20s or giving the killer a Bloodhound effect. Something like that that encourages the killer to roam around and still keeps the ball in the field.

  • ViamontViamont Member Posts: 298

    Genrushing = tunneling.

    Simple as that, and i know a lot of survivors ate going to come out of the Woods trying to defend genrush, but st it's core it's exactly the same thing as tunneling, efectively push your objective yo complete it on the smallest amount of time needed. With that said survivors have no right to complain about tunneling until genrushing it's adreased AND punished. It's funny survivors are perfectly fine with being allowed to rush 2/3 gens in less than 5 minutes, but hell forbide the killer to be just as eficient on the game.

    Tunneling spoils ma fun You horrible killer.

    Just as much as it ruins a killers fun to get genrushed like crazy, now being forced to be as efective and posible and play perfecto games or be completly abuses on end chat because lol "gg baby killer, uninstall, You suck etc etc".

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 929
    edited July 16

    "You on the one hand say facecamping is an automatic L for killers, then you got the other in here saying the top dbd streamers use it as their tactic to get wins. You camping "experts" are all over the place."


    Let's define our terms. First I said camping which is completely different than face camping. When someone says Face camping I assume we are talking about a LF who literally stands within 2m of the hook and never moves. It would also refer to the end game where the killer literally has no reason to leave a hooked survivor.


    I would define camping as a situation where a killer defends a hook without really leaving to pursue a chase. Usually this is done when a survivor is about to die or about to have a change in hook state. Noteably the killer was usually not there the entire hook state. Camping could also be a situation where a killer stands in a dead zone in front of a hook as some sort of "goalie" where the survivors have to rush into danger to save.


    Literally anyone who knows who he is will say that Otz is a respected and talented member of the DBD community. He is the first to admit that he will camp/slug/tunnel to win if he thinks it is necessary. You can find that he does all of those things in his win streaks. He will also use those tactics in random matches where he wants to apply pressure.


    But he does not face camp - except in the case of securing one last kill when there is no chance to get another. Since you seem to be confused about the topic I will mention face camping again. Generally speaking it is a guaranteed loss to down one person and stand in front of them until they die - but there are exceptions.


    Every now and then when using corrupt you down someone very quickly while corrupt is still active. If you down them near workable generators then you can camp them and apply pressure to those generators. Until corrupt changes the other gens will still be blocked. It is possible for example that you might have an entire minute where only 2 generators can be safely touched. That survivor on the hook will likely hit stage two and the survivors will be very behind. Just so we are perfectly clear : this is a rare event and will no longer be possible next patch.

    Until the perk gets changed however it prevents a very powerful situation where corrupt can create a very powerful face camping opportunity. If the survivors rush to complete those two generators they will very likely get the hooked survivor killed as the killer would almost certainly tunnel them out of the game.

  • Nathan13Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,272

    Please have you not seen all these “nerf Nurse” threads??

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 929

    "It's funny survivors are perfectly fine with being allowed to rush 2/3 gens in less than 5 minutes, but hell forbide the killer to be just as eficient on the game."


    When survivors play at peak efficiency they force the killer to do the same. If I lose three generators that means I need to counter with three hook states lost by a single survivor.

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