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Circle of Healing rework

KiokuKioku Member Posts: 66

Hi. I don't like circle of healing. I think it majorly outclasses every other boon in every way. I'm going to quickly outline parts of circle of healing that I don't like, and why I would want them changed.

  1. Other boons encourage you to place totems near the action to get the benefits, whereas Circle of Healing doesn't.
  2. Circle of Healing turns very close, balanced games into massively survivor favored as giving people a reliable way to self heal at will is very powerful. I'm using the devs own words here.
  3. Going into a boon totem and not seeing circle of healing is an immediate disappointment. When people think boons, they think CoH, which causes unnecessary flack being given to other boon perks.
  4. Placing totems far away from the killer's points of interest removes any risk involved in bringing the perk, as the killer will almost never be given the chance to snuff it depending on where it's placed.
  5. Circle of healing when combined with med-kits leads to unprecedented healing speeds, and only requires one person and one perk slot to give that benefit to everybody on the team

Now, I'm gonna suggest a rebalance that addresses all of these points (or at least tries to)

This is an idea that was inspired by the new hemorrhage status effect, which causes healing progress to regress when not healing. This basically flips that on its head, allowing injured survivors to heal even when they aren't healing. With this, it would take 50 seconds of continuous time spent in a totem to fully heal up. It also seems thematically more appropriate, as now it seems survivors are able to heal magically instead of just being like "Nice magic, now I feel like I can heal faster."

This makes it so placing it away from the killer's point of interest is less powerful and encourages people to place it near active gens, where the killer can actually take the time to interact with it if they feel like it. Being able to heal passively while doing gens is extremely strong, but it does take a long time and if the killer is running anything that applies hemorrhage you will have to watch your heal progress slowly and pathetically drain if you end up being chased away from it. It's still a very powerful effect, but I think most people would find this more fair.

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Comments

  • KiokuKioku Member Posts: 66

    If someone is being chased inside a small totem range for 50 seconds, id be impressed. But definitely agree that anything is better than dropping chase and having homie heal in 8 seconds.

  • PatchNoirPatchNoir Member Posts: 553

    i dont wanna be "that kinda of people" on the forum saying that the x person is bad at killer. But if an injured person manage to run an 50 seconds chase while on boon area i would be pretty surprised.

    we could pause the healing effect while in chase, but i have an much better solution to boon COH (the other boons are not that opressive to get a nerf with COH), just remove the Multifloor effect, a big problem with boons that the devs already TRIED to adress was the area, the thing is that the main problem isnt the distance in a normal way but the distance in a multifloor map that makes travel times for killers to snuff the boon too long (Macmillian,Jigsaw,Midwitch).

    I would gladly revert to old COH distance but make the boon the totem floor only, because if the killer interrupts a heal he will know the general area of the boon or have a bit of space to snuff it

  • KiokuKioku Member Posts: 66

    100% agree, that would be ideal for fixing boons in general. I think if this version of CoH paused in chase that would remove one of the few practical applications this version would have, as it wouldn't be reliable to try and have the totem in a spot far away from a 3 gen or something. You would definitely want to move this version around a lot to make sure that it would always stay handy, rather than leaving it somewhere safe like upstairs in the ironworks.

  • AGMAGM Member Posts: 597

    It's a neat idea, but personally I'd prefer to see how the current CoH fares after these upcoming base game changes before asking for it to be changed.

  • KiokuKioku Member Posts: 66

    Won't be much different, it's not like they added any crazy anti-healing mechanics into the game yet.

  • Dream_WhisperDream_Whisper Member Posts: 280

    Funny how, I was agaisnt CoH in general and how I do not think Boon in general is never the issue.

    COH on it own, makes typical Solo Que Survivors stronger but much more oppressive and stronger in SWFs; all for the sake of being able to Self Care on steroids; as there is no healing speed bonus reduction like typical Self Care and you can stack Other healing perks like Botany knowledge and medkit items to boost Healing speeds up to 8 or less seconds. Keep in mind, One Person can just equipped this one perk, and completely carry the team with it alone.

    My original proposal to nerf COH, would have been to make it completely removed it healing bonus with medkits and healing Perk and the ability to self care; and make it more as Empathy type of Perk, that reveals any injured Survivors in the Boon Radius to everyone on the map; which incentives teammates coming to over to group up and heal. They revert the healing speed back to 100%; considering the bonus stacking is gone and the ability to self care is entirely removed.

    But... I like your suggestion as well, built in Health Regeneration for like a good duration of time, as well as the ability to ignore Mangled and/ or Hemorrage status is also good Perk too.

    Yeah, my problem with CoH; when I play killer alot; is that Survivors can take alot of hits, heal up so quickly and can still be productive in doing gens without even cooperation with healing each other; especially with a Med-kit in hand. It completely hurts any mediocre to weak killers that relies on a Hit/Run type of playstyle; and incentives more camping/tunnelling, as it is the most effective way to kill Survivors sadly.

    (I am not a fan of playing it; but I force to play this scummy; because how broken this perk is; and how imbalance maps are which makes switching targets and engaging multiple Survivors not worth the reward.)

  • DeathstrokeDeathstroke Member Posts: 1,376

    That should only done COH other boons are pretty weak already so they need it.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 2,195

    the perk would be too ineffective at healing and at the same time, too effective at healing when near a generator.

    your point 1-5 do not change anything in regards to ** your ** problems with the perk

    point 1: The perk still encourages you to place the perk away from killer in this version

    -A change that would encourage survivor to put the perk near killer is by making it only possible to heal in terror radius(a good change that would make the perk entirely garbage because killer would snuff the totem while your healing and the perk would never work against a stealth killer making it impossible to heal yourself).

    point 2: This version of the perk is even better when your winning as survivor because now you can heal and do generator at the same time while making the perk worse than new self-care when you are not willing to stand in a circle doing nothing for 50 seconds.

    point 3: that's because other boon perks are underwhelming. The other perks might see more use if they make a perk like Open-handed that increases radius of boons by like double.

    point 4: The associated risk to placing the perk hasn't changed.

    point 5: Your version of the perk doesn't change your last sentence in regards to needing one person to bring the perk for others to heal. A green med-kit with gel dressing & medical scissors already heals a survivor in 9.69 seconds. They're already healing at fast-speeds without needing the perk.

  • KiokuKioku Member Posts: 66

    You are finding some really roundabout or dismissive ways to get around my points, so I guess I will clarify them in detail for you.

    For Point 1, This version of the perk would be very ineffective when placed far away from the gens or areas where you want to be chased. A 50 second heal would simply not be worth the time, whereas ~21 seconds to heal yourself without a medkit is usually fast enough to be able to heal and get back to work on gens. This is even more problematic when combined with medkits.

    Point 2 is rather subjective, so yes, this perk could be very strong in some matches, but I can almost guarantee it would not be nearly as strong as the current version is especially in swf. The ability to passively heal is great, but due to its slow speed, small AoE and the risk involved in placing it in a better spot, it will not completely destroy killers like twins or wraith anymore.

    Point 3 is something I wasn't aiming to solve with this post, but this version of CoH would be much more in-line with the strength of other boon perks, even just in terms of functionality. A nerf like this would open up room to maybe buff the other less powerful boons.

    Point 4 is basically the same answer as point 1. Placing the boon near gens and areas where you want to be chased increases the risk of it being snuffed by a lot, especially since the likelihood that you go down near it is much higher, and that's the best time to snuff a totem.

    For point 5, this would be way less powerful when combined with medkits. Instead of running into the totem with a medkit and healing in 8 seconds, you would instead want to 99 or heal yourself halfway and run to the boon during a chase to pop an unexpected heal. The new version wouldn't increase your healing speed by much at all. And I dont see how bringing up medkit speeds in general matters in this context? The point is that you can turn any medkit into a green medkit with even more charges, which isn't fun at all to deal with.

    I'm not here to have text wall battles with people though. I think this comment will speak for itself

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 2,195


    the best way to use this version of the perk is for a killer to chase you, injure you and the next time you go to work on generator, you will be healed passively while doing the generator. your healing and doing the generator at the same time therefore your saving 21-22 seconds of healing time and putting those 22 seconds on a generator.

    As I said in my first sentence, the perk is better than current of circle of healing in specific cases but not effective as healing perk in isolated situations.

    The radius of putting boon as far as possible away from the killer hasn't changed. Its still most effective when away from the killer.

    Point 3 is something I wasn't aiming to solve with this post, but this version of CoH would be much more in-line with the strength of other boon perks, even just in terms of functionality. A nerf like this would open up room to maybe buff the other less powerful boons.

    Nothing would change about other boons, Just that this boon would be less effective in certain situations and better in other situations.

    The new version wouldn't increase your healing speed by much at all. And I dont see how bringing up medkit speeds in general matters in this context? The point is that you can turn any medkit into a green medkit with even more charges, which isn't fun at all to deal with.

    I think you are misunderstanding how the perk works. Healing in circle of healing does not give you extra charges of med-kit. It just makes you heal 50% faster. So for example, a green med-kit with 16 charges will heal you at 100% speed. 100% speed is 2x speed, so a 16 second heal will be completed in 8 seconds. You still spend all 16 charges of med-kit.

    In order to save charges with circle of healing, you need heal with manual self-care for half the time, say 50%(10 seconds) than you can use med-kit to heal other 50% which would consume 8 charges of med-kit. in the case of green med-kit, it would take remaining 4 seconds and for other med-kits, it would take 8 seconds as 50% of 16 = 8.

    your version of circle of healing would save you charges because you would be healing passively and you could heal while using med-kit, but its so slow to the point that the perk might as well be doing nothing in comparison to your med-kit(you would save like 1-2 charges).

    -- The perk is mechanically stronger because you can heal and do actions at the same time, but your number are significantly lower. the approximate equal time of current self-healing to match your perk is 5%. Your perk is too strong at doing generators and not practical at healing.

  • IlliterateGenocideIlliterateGenocide Member Posts: 4,492

    it outclasses every other boon because every other boon is just about not worth running

  • akaTheBARONakaTheBARON Member Posts: 268

    I legit don't mind CoH, as is, when I play killer, and don't really want to see it nerfed into self-care territory. I mean, sure the perk USED to be BUSTED. Then it got nerfed but was still busted, just less so. The only nerf I think personally that would be ok would be for it to not add any boost to healing speeds. So if a survivor heals you in the radius, its still just 16 seconds.

    Someone mentioned its multi floor effect being taken away... While I'm not hoping they do that, if they did, I'd be like "ok, fair enough"

    Outside of that, rethinking how the whole perk works, I PERSONALLY don't think its needed. And yes I play survivor too... guilty as charged your honor, but I see it as a huge time waster in some instances in the wrong hands. I RARELY run it. Its borderline useless when survivors don't know a lot of go-to totem spawns. Waste time looking, and when they find one, they REFUSE to play injured, will trek to the other side of the map to get to it, and will rebless it after the killer has already snuffed it out twice without assuming the killer will hear the chime, likely comeback assuming you're just reblessing the same totem and may find you there injured anyways.

    Sure, in the hands of a SWF, they can be annoying but they will always... always have a perk build they can abuse at their disposal, and SWFs that are actually good, aren't as common as people think. Theyre not a myth either I'm not saying they're super rare, but a swf that is a team of very good and very coordinated survivors would likely have rocked you anyway. Same as survivors playing against a good nurse. Not much you can do, they don't even need perks honestly LOL.

    I will say, I like the thought you put into these ideas. Very creative with a lot of thought put in. And I also like how the changes aren't to boons in general. I see people with a problem wiht CoH specifically but have suggestions about how to nerf boons in general, and most outside shadowstep (kind of) and CoH aren't worth running. So nerfing CoH in some of these ways I've seen would just kill ALL boon perks.

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 954

    Boons should have the same limitations as hexes.


    If hexes are removed forever once interacted with then boons should be the same.

    If boons can be relit then so should hexes.


    It is absolutely obscene that the killer does not have a "base kit" ability to break bones. A killer should have the option to tap space to snuff the boon or hold E to beak the bones (1 second interaction).

  • AMOGUSAMOGUS Member Posts: 161

    The way to fix this would be to nerf COH down to the other boon levels, or buff every other boon and then make boons riskier to use. High risk, high reward should be the thing for boons, not just hexes. Would make things more skillful imo

  • akaTheBARONakaTheBARON Member Posts: 268

    spoken like a true killer main.

    You want to destroy a boon permanently... use Shattered Hope XD

  • PyrosorcPyrosorc Member Posts: 199

    No thanks, I'm not dedicating 1/4 of the killer perks in a game to counter 1/16 of the survivor perks in the game. That's called "losing before the game even starts".

  • HuskyTwitterHuskyTwitter Member Posts: 66

    I really hope the devs see this. Seems to fall more in line with the other Boon perks. Great idea!

  • FeryGENFeryGEN Member Posts: 451

    CoH does not pose such a threat as some people think, CoH does not work if you end any chase right away, if you tunnel the survivor who placed CoH, then it does not work either. I always tunnel survivor set perk and everything CoH does "poof". Hey, if this is 1 perk out of 16, then this is a strategy for you, tunnel the survivor, but not the camp, let them save, move to a safe distance, and if you see a survivor who wants to save, pretend that you didn’t notice and leave, then come back and kill.

  • PyrosorcPyrosorc Member Posts: 199

    Yes, we know that CoH is countered by camping and tunnelling - that's why you'll see so much more of that in games where boons get placed. But the devs now supposedly want to reduce that behavior, so balancing CoH would be a great step towards that.

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 954

    There's no need to categorize people. The way your reply is written it is almost a form of hate speech. I want the game to be fun/fair and not favor any side over the other.


    Imagine if the devs made it so that survivors needed a perk to be able to cleanse hexes. Do you think that would be fair? That would make the existence of the perk "Shattered hope" fair but I do not think that would be a just end for the game. I do not think such a system would make anyone happy.


    Anyone who has ever read animal farm can understand the balance of DBD. Some players are more equal than others. The way the developers favor survivor over the killer it is very clear after 6 years of development that survivors are more equal than the killer.


    There is literally no explanation for the game's current mechanisms for hexes/boons considering balance (if we are considering the word - "fair"; other words that explain the situation do come to mind but let us not mention them). The team with the more numerous advantage would make a lot more sense to need a perk to be able to cleanse a hex. As someone previously mentioned the survivors have 16 perks at their disposal and the killer only has 4 perks.


    It is insanity to ask a killer to give up 1/4th of their perks to be able to remove boons when a team of survivors do not need to give up 1/16th of their perks remove hexes permanently.


    It is fair to ask for the following changes:

    1)Killers can break bones by pressing E to interact with a lit boon with no perk required

    2)Killers can instantly relight hexes by interacting with any dull totem or lit boon with no perk required.


    Alternatively we could make the rule:

    3) Boons once snuffed by a killer are removed forever.



    Everyone should come together and decide which is the more fair option to adopt (Rules #1+2 OR Rule #3).

  • akaTheBARONakaTheBARON Member Posts: 268

    Then learn to counter CoH or use it to your advantage. Or just accept (cuz you're going to use the "in the hands of a SWF" card) in the hands of a well organized SWF, you were likely to get rocked anyways. They will always have a perk build to exploit and will be well coordinated.

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 954

    Since you seem to be flummoxed I will repeat myself:


    It is insanity to ask a killer to give up 1/4th of their perks to be able to remove boons when a team of survivors do not need to give up 1/16th of their perks remove hexes permanently.

  • akaTheBARONakaTheBARON Member Posts: 268
    edited July 16

    Hex perks are more powerful, as they should be. Boons are not. If you're getting flustered by CoH, get better. Sorry, the game already gave you a perk that does the exact thing you want. Don't worry, you will learn to get better at countering CoH the more hours you play.

  • foodiefoodie Member Posts: 146

    no touchy my eboony

  • KiokuKioku Member Posts: 66

    Can we keep this thread more civilized or abandon it? I'm not interested in reading text wall arguments. Thanks for the insightful feedback though friends

  • PyrosorcPyrosorc Member Posts: 199

    I was never going to mention SWFs so thanks for the strawman. And I don't need to, I already quit being a killer main and just play survivor now - might try it out with dead hard dying?

    My point is that the survivors get 16 perks and the killer gets 4. A single survivor perk shouldn't be giving fast self healing to the entire team, and a killer perk shouldn't be designed to counter something that should only have a quarter of its value. The very existence of shattered hope does nothing but prove how unbalanced CoH is.

    But hey, I may be a survivor main these days, but you're obviously a toxic one, so, I guess this will go completely over your head! Have a nice day.

  • SquippitSquippit Member Posts: 20

    This is my favorite change for the perk I've seen. If you absolutely NEED the heal and you've got time to burn, you can still vibe in the circle for 50 seconds, or get a small boost while getting healed or selfcaring the proper way. Lots of places where it can cover 2 gens at once. If they tone down Shadowstep a little bit, I would even be fine if they removed the noise from the boon so the killer has to actually realize it's there, and then find/see it.

  • Slingshot47Slingshot47 Member Posts: 119

    Honestly, I'd be fine with the powerful effects of CoH on one condition: boon totems should be destroyed permanently when snuffed. This would keep its very powerful effect while also making it worth the killer's time to seek it out when they recognize it's in play. If boon totems didn't stack, even better. The survivors would more than likely get a good number of heals before the killer suspects that it is in play, similar to how hexes work. This would also prevent blessing from being a hard counter to Pentimento.

  • RemediastRemediast Member Posts: 596

    This is a very different, but great and unique idea for a CoH change. I like that it pairs better with the other boon totem perks as well. Additionally, if you manage to escape the chase, you will be rewarded with your healing bar being already filled up a bit to where another survivor can heal the rest without wasting time. This is a much more rewarding CoH change without necessarily affecting healing speeds. The unique part of this boon that makes it powerful if you escape a chase is that it technically is not affected by mangled, so healing passively and allowing another survivor you find to heal the rest sounds pleasing.

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