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Countermeasure(s) against survivors taking the game hostage by hiding

SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 3,911

When all survivors alive are hiding and refusing to even attempt to repair at all while hatch is not open (thus cannot start EGC), that is against the rules for (1) refusing to participate in normal gameplay and (2) holding the game hostage, which is potentially bannable depending on case-by-case circumstances (eg, new players not knowing better). This is not up for debate.

Anyways, there needs to be better countermeasures in game for this. Even though it is reportable, it doesn’t help the killer player stuck in this game while held hostage by the survivors.

There’s a few different routes BHVR could go or any combination of with this, and probably more I haven’t thought of, and any other suggestions would be appreciated as well:

  1. Killer Instinct reveals survivors non-stop when a condition is met (eg, more than X seconds pass without Y seconds of Conspicuous Actions or being in chase or whatever) UNTIL the condition is met or a chase starts or whatever. For example with placeholder numbers: If more than [60]s passes out of chase where at least [20]s of that is not Conspicuous Actions, until they do a continuous [20]s of Conspicuous Actions or a chase starts, they are permanently revealed by Killer Instinct. The reason it is Killer Instinct is so it bypasses everything on purpose. They refuse to play, so they should not be able to hide by any means whatsoever.
  2. All lockers become blocked off to survivors at some point (eg, past 15m or past X minutes after there being a generator finished or whatever). Would prevent hiding and locker swapping, but has some problematic side-effects possibly.
  3. Game auto-ends and kills all remaining living survivors after X minutes if no generator has been finished since the last by then. Timer starts after each generator pops. Has some overlap situations with slowdown, but let’s be honest. If X is some big value such as 10 minutes, if 10 minutes has gone by without a single generator popping, either the survivors are refusing to play or the killer is locking down generators/survivors so well (whether with perks or not) that it’s taking an eternity and a half to accomplish anything. Might as well end and move next at that point. Something like 10m should be more than enough for a SINGLE generator.

Comments

  • TeabaggingGhostfaceTeabaggingGhostface Member Posts: 2,480

    I had a stealth squad (just hiding, they were allergic to gens) on rpd a while back, it took like 40 minutes to kill them all

  • Marc_123Marc_123 Member Posts: 2,479

    Just play Doctor.

    ..and hope they don´t use Calm Spirit.

  • AetherBytesAetherBytes Member Posts: 2,366

    The issue is there are legitimate causes for this. I had a 20m game once where it was me and another survivor hiding. The killer was too oppressive and we couldn't do gens, so we both had hid, by our own seperate decisions, hoping the other survivor died first so we could have a chance to escape.

  • SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 3,911
    edited August 8

    That’s literally not a legitimate reason, and the picture literally explains so. It doesn’t matter. You are expected to attempt to repair gens. Hiding and doing absolutely nothing to progress is against the rules. You and them both actively decided to refuse to play and thus keep the game hostage. Whether you’d be punished by BHVR? Depends on circumstances. But against rules ≠ will be punished every time or to the same extent.

    Trying to repair and getting chased off is different from what you and them did, which is taking the game hostage because both of you refused to play at all. You and them refusing to play and keeping the game held hostage are literally the exact kinds of problems this post is addressing.

  • GuyInABlackTeeGuyInABlackTee Member Posts: 252

    Why don’t you just find the survivors? It sounds like you contribute to the game not progressing as well.

  • SimfelizSimfeliz Member Posts: 2,530

    I just don’t have the patience for that. If I’m in a situation like that I just sit on the gen and let the killer find me. If the other survivor wants to hide for the hatch that’s up to them.

  • ByeByeQByeByeQ Member Posts: 700

    I hate the boring gameplay that can occurs often when only 2 survivors are left and they have 2 or more gens left to do or the killer has a good 3gen and the survivors try to out-stealth each other to be that last one alive. It's boring, time-consuming and nobody is gaining points when it happens. If the killer doesn't have a way to find the survivors like Doctor, Whispers or Darkness Revealed they may be stuck searching for a long time. Survivors should just get crows after a while of doing nothing to advance the game. This scenario can be so time-consuming that the killer can save time by DCing and waiting out a 5 minute penalty.

    I also hate when the killer slugs for the 4K but at least there is a bleed out timer on that scenario.

  • CluelessWandererCluelessWanderer Member Posts: 940
    edited August 9

    Sir, you can't dictate; "Survivors MUST do gens at all times so I can easily find them. Even at the end game when they have no idea what the other is doing!". They already get crows if they stay on one spot too long, so they are moving around the map.

    I personally hate the sweat Killers that slug the second last survivor and camp the slug for the entire 4 minutes. Can I force them to go away from the slug at that point and check generators? Not really.

    There are info perks for Killers. Like Darkness Revealed. Just open a locker and see survivors auras if they're near a locker (and a lot of times they are).

    Edit: Re-reading, I see what the core issue is. I personally haven't experienced that much (I get bored and want to be found). How common does this occur?

  • SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 3,911
    edited August 9

    Good luck finding survivors intentionally avoiding AFK crows while walking/crouching around/locker-swapping somewhere on the map. It is unfeasible to actually successfully do this in any non-incredibly long span of time without pure luck. Which is literally exactly why it is against rules. One side is refusing to play, and thus keeping the other in hostage. It's not up for debate.

    It's not too common usually, but when it happens, it's an insanely huge waste of time. It can quite literally go 30-40 minutes+, depending on how stubborn the people refusing to play are. Trying to find people hiding intentionally (thus, avoiding running, but avoiding AFK crows by moving around, etc) is absurdly difficult without either lucky perks or lucky guesses, which is precisely why it's against the rules. I really don't care what way BHVR goes about a base kit fix to the killer player stuck in this situation, as long as it can make this kind of situation no longer a problem. I outlined a few examples, but there's probably more I haven't thought of as well.

  • Zolfo16Zolfo16 Member Posts: 467

    Whispers

  • SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 3,911
    edited August 9

    People should not have to run a perk to deal with people holding a game hostage for huge amounts of time by intentionally breaking game rules.

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,106

    I had another idea changing the idle crows a few months ago.

    Currently you get idle crows when standing still, but we all now you can be doing nothing by running in circles etc. So the crows spawn rules could be changed, that they will spawn when a survivor did neither do a channeling action (everything with a progress bar, so repairing, healing, cleansing, saboing ...) nor was chased for some time. So like two minutes without being found or touching anything would give you one crow, another minute a second and so on. And if you accumulated a number of crows, you need to get into a chase or do a channeling action for some time / finish it (for totems / hooks) to get rid of it, so no tapping a totem or gen. Like with one crow, you need to do a gen for 20s, or heal someone, or break a totem / hook.

    But maybe thats all to complicated, and we should aim for a more practical solution, like you solution 3:

    If the game did not proceed for a set amount of time, EGC starts (with closed hatch and built-in NWO with remaining survivor count as stacks).

  • Zolfo16Zolfo16 Member Posts: 467

    Yes. In an ideal world you probably would be right. This is not an ideal world.

  • SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 3,911

    Wow, it’s almost like that’s literally why I’m proposing ideas for a base kit change that needs to exist.

  • TragicSolitudeTragicSolitude Member Posts: 6,026
    edited August 9

    I agree that this is an issue. A timer of some sort needs to be implemented. Matches that are drawn-out for any reason can get very boring, but being held hostage by survivors who are just hiding is especially frustrating.

    There also needs to be a better reward system within matches to encourage survivors to play the game rather than hide. Right now, a big ass chunk of BP is rewarded for escaping. A week ago I had a match where one survivor spent almost the entire time hiding, waiting for everyone else to die, and when they escaped their score went from the lowest with 13k to 27k BP. What the hell?? Why would anyone bother to attempt gens when hiding and getting the hatch is so much more lucrative? The point scoring system rewards (and thus encourages) some of the worst behaviors in the game. When hiding and escaping rewards so much more than taking the risk of doing gens and dying, it's no wonder so many survivors just creep around for most of the match.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,106

    Maybe it's better/easier to base the survivor detection on the killer actions:

    When the killer did not get any scoring events for 2 minutes per alive survivor, the remaining survivors are revealed by killer instinct, until a survivor is found / injured / downed. Does not work with one survivor left (just close the hatch then).

    So with two survs you can stealth for 4 minutes, for three its 6 minutes, and for all four its 8 minutes. Since it gets easier to find someone when more survivors are alive, I think it's justified to have to search longer for the reveal effect. And the 8 minutes are long enough to do all gens and escape, in case a killer is afk and wants to force the reveal for whatever reason.

  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,392

    This is why hatch mechanics is flawed and so detrimental to the game, who the heck implemented a system that encourage people to take the game hostage?

  • Zolfo16Zolfo16 Member Posts: 467

    The point is: in the while Whisper is a solution if you are worried.

  • XStormyXDayzXXStormyXDayzX Member Posts: 598

    Funny, I find face camping to also be 'not engaging in gameplay' yet the whiny killer mains will always retort 'Its a legit tactic! It's not on the list so it's fine! Just play better! Killers get to do what they want to have fun!'

    Stealth is part of the game. Hiding isn't against the rules.

    How about you just get better at finding survivors? After all, if they think hiding is fun, then that's how they enjoy the game.

  • HPhoenixHPhoenix Member Posts: 238

    Agreed

    my idea was

    -Survivors will gain crows and hteir aura will be revealed if they don't repair a generator. The generator must be 25 (or higher) for the crows to disapears.)

  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,392

    face camping is very much in the list, and just hiding without doing any gens are actually against the rules.

    Game is literally not made to be played against permanently hiding survivors, that is also the reason why it can be bannable.

    I suppose you are just mistaking camping/tunneling/slugging and FACEcamping.

  • SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 3,911

    Did you not read the original post? If the hatch does not exist/EGC cannot be started, and all living survivors are hiding and not attempting to do generators, that is against rules. That is different from hiding in other forms.

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