It's not actually that bad from a game balance perspective. Monstrous Shrine only activates while the killer is at least 24 meters away, and for most killers that means they're far enough away that the person on the hook can be safely unhooked without an immediate hit on the rescuer. (Some like Hag can get back quickly enough for an immediate hook trade but they're the exception.) If a killer is doing zone defense near a hook close enough to guarantee hook trades then they're probably already within that 24 meter range most of the time.
My concern about the perk isn't related to game balance, it's that malicious actors could use it to indefinitely stall a person from dying on hook, particularly if the killer is afk or just not good enough to stop it.
Again, you're arguing from a balance perspective of "camping becomes a bad strategy". I agree with you, from a balance standpoint I don't have an issue with the perk. My concern is that there are some players malicious enough to do things like intentionally just throw a game to keep someone else on a hook for 10 or 20 minutes and the only they can get out of the game is disconnecting.
I've been trolled by 3 man swfs as a solo survivor before. This is where my concern lies. If you guys want to keep ignoring an actual concern and just repeat ad nauseum "don't camp" go ahead. I'm really tired of trying to explain the same thing over and over to a bunch of people refusing to even listen.
Well i answered that too actually on another comment.
Perk should not remove skill checks. So if someone want to hostage you on hook, you will have chance to suicide and leave.
Perk is fine by itself. Maybe cooldown should start after effect ends (in this case, make cooldown 20 seconds maybe). But i don't think this perk needs huge changes. Looks fine to me.
Yeah, if they made the change so that someone on a hook could still simply opt to suicide that would be fine with me.
I agree, I don't think the perk needs huge changes, just a tweak to prevent that indefinite involuntary hanging on a hook situation.
I understood your point. @Crowman has same issue i think.
Perk should not remove skill checks, with this way nobody can keep you on hook forever. If they do that, you can suicide and leave.
Right, I was agreeing with you. 😄
I'm not sure which game you're playing, but it isn't current DBD. In order to keep someone indefinitely on a hook like this would take 1 person on hook, two other survivors with reassurance, and a killer who doesn't go back to hook ever. Six meters is so small you can't actually pause a basement hook standing directly above it in the shack.
While I think people can be malicious jerks sometimes, I highly doubt that 2 survivors and the killer will all conspire to allow this to happen.
You have more faith in internet and video game trolls than I do.
I mean I didn't respond "don't camp". I said record, disconnect, then report them to get them a ban. Holding the game hostage in that way is listed as bannable and the disconnect penalty is a minor 5 minutes for the first time and resets each day.
Now there is one concern. We do know that hackers seem to be able to insert themselves into people's lobbies. A streamer could potentially be trolled repeatedly before anyone can respond to a report which would force them to wait. If someone hacks and forces you into their lobby, there's not a whole lot you can do. There should probably be some way to ######### beyond struggle checks.
I'm just concerned that survivors are being given one of the first tools to hard counter facecamping and this concern, which is unlikely to happen and has an easy fix outside extraneous circumstances (repeated harassment from hackers), will get a nerf that actually affects gameplay by limiting the ability to once per hook stage or something like that.
Glad to hear that :)
And if killer see survivors have this perk, they will stop camp or they will sit on hook forever. Because smart teams can make this and they will buy enough time to finish generators. And probably they will buy enough time to save hooked survivor either.
This perk supports healthy gameplay, so i am kinda excited for it. If they fix hostage issue with perk, i think survivors will have good perk after long time.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with the perk encouraging killers to move away from the hook more often. In fact I said elsewhere I wouldn't be against having the hook timer pause or significantly slow as a base kit if the killer is within 24 meters of it and maybe speed up if they're farther away, kind of like how Devour Hope and Make Your Choice and Monstrous Shrine all push killers to be about that distance from hooks to get benefits.
Either way I'm betting this will be a popular survivor perk at least initially solely because it'll be perceived as a way to get face campers away from a hook. Whether it actually works or not we'll see, not everybody who face camps is doing it to win.
Idk if someone's already said this but I dont think its good that a perk is being used to fix an issue like camping. Its like the devs threw up their hands and gave up. Not good game design or good for its health imo.
It's not so unlikely, imo. All you need is a farming match where one survivor does not want to play along. Suddendly that player is the nemesis of both survivors and killers, and they may grief him for not playing along. I've seen a streamer not playing along with the farming, and being constantly downed by the killer and healed up by the survivors, just to punish them. It just needs three jerks, honestly.
Sluzzy, is that you?
Seriously, the numbers need a definite tweaking and in particular the current ability for a SWF to abuse a solo player and keep them alive indefinitely on hook needs to be fixed at the very least.
Don't ever insult me like that ever again.
And yeah they should just add an option to cancel the effect if you're on hook. Other than that, the numbers are fine, just don't camp.
It definitely isn't perfection or peak. It's a perk they put in, but haven't yet actually put in any necessary limitations on.
For one, it should not work more than once on a single hook state.
this hostage example your trying to use to nerf the perk is bad since your only using to try to get a better cooldown which is not needed. all they have to do to fix the hostage situation is make the hooked person have the ability to cancel it. so now what are you gonna try to use to keep your camping habit?
give hooked survivor ability to cancel effect problem solved. next please.
That's a valid concern, but not one to nerf the perk over.
Just allow a survivor on second hook state to suicide even while under the effect of reassurance to fix it.
I agree, they should tweak the ability so the hooked survivor opts into it.
i'd also add just to make it fair that it can't be used during egc and then just leave it with that. thoughts?
What’s the issue with using it during endgame collapse? If survivors are hanging around during endgame collapse too long they die regardless.
i've just been seeing alot of people asking for that to be a thing. personally im fine with it working during egc.
This is assuming that the hostage taking is not intended. This may be intentional (not oversight) to reduce hook suicides. Alot of people are complaining about hook suicides. So BHVR could see this as their 2-in-1 solution for camping and hook suicides.
If the shoe fits, wear it. Describing a completely unbalanced perk as "perfection" and "peak perk design" with the traditional addition of "Survivor good, killer bad" matches that poster's style to a T.
How is it ubalanced? It literally does nothing if the killer doesn't camp
Remember that also this perk's bad design will lead to endgame stalemates. The perk is good, the intent is good, but the design is far from perfect, very approssimative.
BUT it is against camping and everyone hate camping therefore the discussion is full of fanboys that do not allow you to move a criticism otherwise you are a "bad camping killer git gud!"
I also liked this perk, my only criticism is that this perk is from DLC, they could have simply used this function to buff Steve's old perk, which is now a global perk,
Some additional ideas I would make in the perk to avoid some abuse:
-Even when the perk is on, the struggle skillchecks will still appear, to prevent the surv from getting stuck in case other survs use the perk to make the surv stuck in matches
I see this perk as a hope for players to have a chance to play against the strongest campers in the game, especially those who camp unnecessarily.
Now the only thing missing is something anti slug in the game, like an unbrakble base kit when there are 2 survs alive, I find it very boring to have to wait for the killer who wants to do 4 kills (as if that was worth anything) and leave the surv on the ground and go behind the other surv without even knowing where he is, and I have to wait without being able to do anything, not to mention that when there are 2 survs alive the game is lost, because it is very difficult to complete the missing generators,reducing the aura reading of generators and increasing their speed when they have fewer survs in the match could improve this
Lmao how will this perk lead to endgame stalemates?