Aside from Meatplant, the obvious offender, some maps have clusters of pallets which let's survivors waste a lot of time without any effort.
Majority of maps have a perfectly fine amount of pallets. I think around 15 give or take 1 or 2 is a good amount of pallets.
The bigger problem is not the quantity of pallets, but rather the map RNG. Sometimes loops are just so heavily on the side of survivor that done correctly they can connect 2-3 loops and be borderline uncatchable for M1 killers. Other times loops can be so spread out that it becomes extremely easy to just brute force pallets.
The vast majority of DBDs problems can be fixed by removing the RNG aspect of DBD. By making things predetermined they can ensure a fair amount of loops, and gaps between them for killers.
on some maps; gideons, cowshed, new rpd, new rpd 2, yamaoka on bad rng, badham 1, badham 2, badham 3, badham 4, badham 5 (its so great there are 5 of them) there are just a million pallets, or too many for how safe they are
most maps its fine tho
Yea, Badham is the worst map(s) for killers.
I don't think the Pallet amount is the issue. The issue is that too many Pallets are too safe. Maps have too many God Pallets
And then there are maps like shelter woods where if you waste single pallet, someone dies... It's all about luck with maps
Pallet is not enough only when you are for the survivors
Yeah, I said something similar in another thread the other day. Having a lot of pallets isn’t an issue as long as most of the pallets are gameable. I think Dead Dawg Saloon for instance is pretty good in terms of pallets, a lot of them can be gamed out. The problem comes when you have too many pallets that are totally safe, not just the overall number of all pallets.
I don’t think “many” maps have too many safe pallets, honestly a lot of maps are probably fine as is in that regard. The new RPD looks like an example though where they currently have two god pallets in the same main room on the stairs. Even though that’s just two pallets, those two being that close to each other in a central area is problematic, and there are beyond that probably one or two other god pallets elsewhere. I think if they remove even one of those two pallets on those stairs it would possibly be ok in terms of the pallets at that point.
So basically a map having 1-3 god pallets is the right range, beyond that is too much. You could have any number of gameable pallets though since those all can end in the killer’s favor if they outplay the survivor.
Removing the RNG would be terrible though. That keeps the game interesting.
Things would get SO stale if they removed it and every time you got a map you knew the exact layout you were working with.
No one is asking to remove the RNG. Having buildings be turned this way or that way does make things interesting as having a building be in the center vs the corner changes everything. Having the building's best loop face into one direction makes it good and the opposite way can make it completely worthless. A good example here is when the killer shack window faces out from the map it makes it weaker; having the vault face into the map makes it good for the survivor.
What people are asking for is a minimum saturation so you can't have shack window vault go directly to a jungle gym via a window that leads to shack.
Scott Jund made a "dream patch" video some time ago where he asked for survivor resources to not be allowed to be saturated. In short he asked for them to be more spread out and less able to be linked. It's very dumb for a survivor to be able to pull down 3-4 pallets without taking a hit. But due to the oversaturation of resources this happens all the time.
Yes. Way too many.
Rarely, but sometimes I feel there are none. For example around tower on Eyrie of Crows
Because tThere are windows that are safe until you break the walls.
I also hate the perfectly greedable palettes. Some of the irregular round and rather short loops with a palette are basically infinites. I have had survivors loop me there, who could run the loop perfectly, while I didn't gain any distance on them.
Greeding palettes is already feeling like such a timesink, but this few nearly infinite ones are atrocious.
There is also the garden fence with a palette in the middle right in front of the main building in Garden of Joy. If you don't break that one you will never, ever so much as catch up a little bit to the survivors. Haddonfield has a similar structure alongside one of the houses, too.
As long as there isn't a god pallet on both stairs and in the hallways, I think it would be fine. The lobby (or whatever it's called) has always felt very unsafe so I think it's fine to put two god pallets on the stairs as long as those are the only god pallets in the map but I doubt they would put two god pallets on the stairs at the same time. I remember there being multiple strong/god pallets close by in the ptb during a map rework or when getting a new map to show that a pallet can spawn here but they were never there at the same time when playing on the live server.
Most of the problem maps aren't purely a pallet count issue it's more that they're all completely safe and unmindgameable with some being almost chase ending god pallets that are way too close.
Game Example: 2 god pallets by basement, the square tile with a room inside that spawns another god pallet which can chain into basement pallets, the behind stairs god pallet (can also spawn close basement pallets), the 2-3 chase ending god pallets around the center of the map downstairs, the two practically god pallets only a few seconds from the bathroom, super safe dropdown pallet that chains into a decent window or the god pallet that almost always spawns next to that one. There are tons of other pallets too that are rather safe w/ generic pallet/jungle gym structures.
This comes with a few drawbacks. If hexes and totems are predetermined then they can be sought out and cleansed very quickly. Doesn't help the hex issue. Also a little RNG in a game (even balanced competitive ones) isn't a bad thing. It makes things exciting. It'd get boring playing on the same layout in every game.