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If you don't want people to slug for moris then why change moris when literally no one asked

Flawless_Flawless_ Member Posts: 274
edited September 26 in General Discussions

Sorry for the wall of text, it just rubbed me the wrong way that Behaviour tried spinning the Mori rework as something so exciting and new to the game when absolutely nobody asked for that change. Moris in their current form don't affect player fun and did not gave the killer an advantage in the current meta. If anything, Mori'ing someone instead of hooking would prevent a killer from getting value from certain perks. In other words, these are changes that nobody asked for or needed.

I find it a terrible waste of time and worrysome that the devs have spent over 3 months working on this and having to come up with band aids to fix all kinds of problems basekit unbreakable would bring into the game. And for what? Just because someone at bhvr probably decided on a whim that they wanted the last survivor to die by Mori. I'm sorry but how tone-deaf can you be when you have an entire community who actually plays your game telling you there are other, much more urgent issues that need fixes in DbD? How about using those resources to finally optimize the game for console? Solo Q QoL improvements anyone? Exposed nurse? Humongous maps? The list goes on and on, but somehow, we need to rework...moris. Okay...

Yeah people will adapt, others will say it's an overreaction, but I just really don't get why the devs sometimes come up with these weird changes out of nowhere like the Hillbilly rework, or more recently Boil Over. Remember that? And here's the main issue, whether this ends up being problematic or not is pure speculation at this point, but for a game that pushes updates every 3 months I feel like their resources could be spent coming up with changes that benefit players rather than forcing us to play the way they think the game should be played.

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Comments

  • crogers271crogers271 Member Posts: 128

    1: I don't know why they are getting rid of the current Mori system, seems like that could still stay with the new addition.

    2: I think it adds on a good, quicker finish to the game. Lugging the survivors to the hooks when they are all down is a pointless excursion.

  • Flawless_Flawless_ Member Posts: 274

    Sure it ends the game quicker I'm all about that, but it feels extremely forced when the solution makes a bunch of other perks obsolete. Does that mean all the other stuff they said about changing the meta, perk usage, etc was just bs? It's contradictory at best.

  • fakefake Member Posts: 3,223

    BHVR: remove mori from Devour Hope and Rancor to see more mori

  • schmebulockschmebulock Member Posts: 5

    This. Slugging is the problem, not moris!

    I don't understand the thought that Mori = toxic killer. I personally find the game more fun when a killer is mori-ing survivors instead of using the hooks.

    I think a far more reasonable fix for slugging is built-in Unbreakable, where if all 4 people are downed, whoever recovers first can get back up.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 2,705
    edited September 26

    its because mori are connected to slugging. mori skip hook-states just like slugging entire team skips hook-states.

    the thing with slugging is that slugging 4 survivors is difficult because, its suppose to be difficult since the reward is unlimited. for that reason, slugging all 4 survivors is impractical. survivor's base-kit for preventing 4 man slugging is really strong. 30 seconds to recover at 95% and 4 minute timer means that you can be slugged 6-7 times before your remotely close to dying to bleed out. the 45 second changes it from 6-7 times to 4-5 times but 4-5 times among 4 survivors is still a lot of downs. The survivor has to mess up a lot for killer player to be remotely successful at slugging. Not much reason to use anti-slugging perks when the base-kit is already that good.

    In order to make slugging easier as killer, you need eliminate at least 1 survivor to create a 3vs1. that's what twin's strategy is based off. its based off eliminating one survivor and then slugging the rest because its impractical for twins to: down someone 35 meter away, walk to them, hook them and do this x12 times per match. you could have 10 second chases with the killer but if it takes 40 seconds to hook a survivor, its like having 50 second chases. It would take forever for twins to acquire 4k if the twins had to hook everyone 3 times each.

    for that reason, if you make a killer based off slugging, you need have some sort of gradual reward to the system or else the killer will be like 0k or 4k with nothing in between. that is also why slugging with other killers in general is not popular. Its just too high risk with improbable reward.

    Post edited by Devil_hit11 on
  • ShinobuSKShinobuSK Member Posts: 4,711

    And how is it exciting for survivors lol, noone asked for it.

    If you re talking about UB that will be nerfed anyway during PTB so dunno what you on about

  • JagoJago Member Posts: 1,726

    But the Moris offering basically tells you to slug for a 4K.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,172

    Where does it tell that?

    You have to make 1k, 2k or 4k, and the last survivor needs to be killed by the mori animation. You don't have to kill all four through the finishing mori.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 5,245

    Except survivors always remain in the game, at the exit gate, until their team mates are downed. So it's going to be virtually impossible to get a 1K, 2K or 3K finisher mori. It'll only happen with a 4K.

  • jajay119jajay119 Member Posts: 473

    It's not about slugging for Moris. It's about slugging constantly at 5/4 gens, or slugging the third player so you can run off and find the 4th.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 5,245

    And this form of basekit Unbreakable to fix that issue is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

  • Mat_SellaMat_Sella Member Posts: 3,323

    everyone complaining about the new moris...

    its been MONTHS since ive been mori'd. Literally no one uses them, its basically useless and serves no purpose.

    The new mori WILL serve a purpose and will help end matches faster instead of killers sitting and watching someone bleed out for 4 minutes because hooks are down or someone is feeling petty.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 5,245
    edited September 26

    Mori's need a new system that makes then seen more often, without a doubt. But this system is nuts. It removes Mori opportunities, and you will only see Mori's what killers play sweaty and slug for the 4K.

    This would be a far better solution:

    It has the same net result when it comes to seeing Mori's, without the need to delete Mori's from perks, or delete the dying state.

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 7,089
    edited September 26

    They neutered a lot of clutch plays/winnable situations on the survivor side by implementing this mechanic (IE Deliverance plays that win games / soul guard or ub plays while the killer is walking to hook the last guy / etc)....now everyone just dies.

    No one's really talking about it/picking up on it, atm, but tomorrow will be very interesting once the players capable of making such dynamic plays get their hands on the PTB.

    I honestly went from thinking this update was survivor sided to being overwhelmingly killer sided - not even joking.

    Post edited by Raccoon on
  • fulltononfulltonon Member Posts: 4,397

    Current emblem system already telling you to do such, I don't get it.

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 12,683

    I guess they are reworking the Moris to make it able to actually see the animations. Because currently, you almost never see a Mori-Animation, because current Moris are not that strong (which is completely justified, before they were just way too strong). I mean, personally, I dont care about the animation, but BHVR seems to be quite fond of them, so they wanted to implement a system to see the animations more frequently.

    Before you saw them very frequently, but Moris were busted, so it is not like they were really enjoyable to see on the Survivor Side when you are dead after your first hook. And after they required two Hooks, they were used far less.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 5,245
    edited September 26

    Now you will basically only see a Mori when the killer gets a 4K, as any other scenario will likely result in survivors waiting at exit gates until they're either all out or the remaining survivor is hooked. On top of that, you won't see Mori's from Devour Hope, Rancor, or mid-game via an Ebony Mori offering.

    And in order to secure that Mori, the killer will still need to slug for the 4K to prevent the final survivor getting the hatch.

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 12,683

    Would be more often than now. As I said, I dont care about the animations, from my side, they can remove them entirely. I look at them one time when a new Killer comes out, think "Yeah, looks nice" and thats it.

    And that the Killer "needs" to slug for the 4K is the same as now. not really a point.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,172

    Impossible to get 1k, 2k or 3k mori?

    1k - Beat the last survivor in the hatch race or interrupt them at the gate, BAM finisher mori.

    2k - Find the last two, slug one and down the other fast, BAM finisher mori. Or hook one and find & down the last one, BAM finisher mori as well.

    3k - Have one already dead, two hooked, find and down the last, BAM finish mori.

    Finisher mori is not restricted to end game, you know?

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 5,245
    edited September 26

    "1k - Beat the last survivor in the hatch race ..."

    ...that's a 4K, and it relies on the gamble of beating them to the hatch. If you want the Mori, you need to slug.


    "2k - Find the last two, slug one and down the other fast, BAM finisher mori. Or hook one and find & down the last one, BAM finisher mori as well."

    That's a 4K... and exactly what I'm talking about.


    "3k - Have one already dead, two hooked, find and down the last, BAM finish mori."

    Also a 4K, and once again comes at the risk of the hooked survivors killing themselves to get the hatch for the last survivor.


    You've just given several examples of the exact scenario I'm talking about. That doesn't mean it's going to be any easier or common, all of them require doing exactly what survivors hate, tunnelling and slugging.

  • SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 3,911
    edited September 26

    @Seraphor If you think about it, slugging for 4K is pretty much a symptom of the kind of problematic design of hatch itself too. It incentivizes the last two to hide and do nothing, and the killer’s only option to 4K without risk of hatch is to slug one and look for the other. Comparatively, survivors trying to get a 4E attempt are constantly interacting with the killer, healing and taking trades and inching hooks closer to a gate, etc. The design of the hatch itself incentivizes hiding and doing nothing from survivors and slugging from the killer.

    And realistically, if everybody goes down at 5 gens, the game is likely over anyways unless someone has an Unbreakable or whatever. It’d be like if everyone got hooked at 5 gens realistically. So it’s not like the auto-kill mechanic actually changes much in that regard either.

    The only real issue I see is killer bleeding all living survivors to death on purpose (or unintentionally, silent slug bug and people crawling off into god knows where), honestly. And something like that could be solved by something in a non-sledgehammer manner like you said.

  • SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 3,911

    @Seraphor Eg, a way to deal with killer bleeding people to death intentionally or unintentionally could be a 1 minute timer that starts when the last survivor goes down. As long as all survivors in the trial are hooked or downed, the timer ticks.

    If the timer runs out, everyone is sacrificed Endgame Collapse-style. I feel like 1 minute would give sufficient time for people to get back up if they have a way to do so, or try Deliverance/praying for 4%/etc.

    If no one has gotten up after 1 minute of everyone being downed or hooked, it’s pretty safe to assume the game is over anyways and that the killer either can’t find the others or is intentionally bleeding them out anyways.

    And this would also help solve situations where a killer is forced to bleed a survivor purely because no hooks are close enough.

  • JagoJago Member Posts: 1,726

    If you want to do a 4 K you'll probably have to slug. Risking a Hatch escape would mean the offering you've made as a killer is pointless.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 5,245
    edited September 26

    Yep.

    Another similar option could be that the more survivors are downed, the faster the bleedout timer ticks. When all four are downed it's equivalent to 1 minutes instead of 4 minutes.

    Combine this with something like everyone gets a free Unbreakable when their bleedout timer reaches 25% or something. That's 1 free pick up per game.

    All more appealing than forced, unavoidable Mori cutscenes prematurely ending the game.

  • SuzuKRSuzuKR Member Posts: 3,911

    One of the other things I find sucky about the conceptual change is it makes fun player gimmicks like slug races/carrying someone to the hatch/photobombing Moris/etc impossible.

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