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Tunneling

schmebulockschmebulock Member Posts: 5
edited September 29 in Feedback and Suggestions

What if there were less bloodpoints to be earned for consecutive hooking of a certain survivor? Or perhaps more bloodpoints earned for switching up a killer's focus?

Post edited by Rizzo on
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Comments

  • RulebreakerRulebreaker Member Posts: 239

    Because people are optimistic.

  • schmebulockschmebulock Member Posts: 5

    What do you think would be a good incentive? I always default to BP because I'm trying to get all my survivors to a set prestige level lol

  • RulebreakerRulebreaker Member Posts: 239

    Something that GREATLY rewards playing round robin with the hooks (like grim embrace...but worth while) or by giving a target to immediately head after. That said, when alls said and done, players will do as they will.

  • BrimpBrimp Member Posts: 1,824

    There's no good incentive to not tunnel because of dbd's basic formula. People want to win so BP doesn't change their minds.

  • KaitsjaKaitsja Member Posts: 1,162
    edited September 29

    Killers who tunnel have various reasons for doing so, but by and large incentives will not solve the problem. It is a core problem that exists because, done correctly, tunneling is the most efficient way to win. The only way to solve tunneling is by making it the least efficient way to win.

  • BranBran Member Posts: 1,806

    Big no.

  • burt0rburt0r Member Posts: 3,204

    Sadly a permanent 25% gen/game progress decrease is more lucrative than BP for killer.

  • fakefake Member Posts: 3,183

    I was just a little concerned.

    Is the direction of punishing tunneling called an incentive?

    To me it sounds like a disincentive.

    Isn't the direction of rewarding for not tunneling called an incentive?

  • Unknown2765Unknown2765 Member Posts: 584


    No... people are using the Endurance effect to block the killer, and when you do that... you will be my next target, you earned it and it would be unfair to punish the killers for that.


    We do need less bloodpoints for the survivors that are near the hook when people are getting hooked, and refuse to leave before the killer does.


    I often encounter that 2 people are close to the hook, in opposite directions not even trying to hide, but if i go closer to one, the other moves closer to the hook, so i move back.


    The only looser in this kind of standoff is the one that is hooked, and survivors doing this should be punished, instead they blame the killer for camping.

  • KirahieKirahie Member Posts: 354

    The problem is that a 4v1 is very hard to manage and a 3v1 is very easy to manage. It's a core game issue. And the new mori system incentivises tunneling even more.

  • MDRSanMDRSan Member Posts: 94

    What if survivors suffered an inefficiency debuff for a short time after unhooking that slows gen speed by a small but not negligible amount? That would encourage keeping as many survivors in the recently unhooked state as possible rather than just 1 and further incentivize hooking rather than slugging.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 13,224

    You mean like... the BBQ bonus that was recently removed?

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 13,224

    I had the same opinion. But the 100% bloodpoint bonus proved me wrong. So it actually might help with the issue.

  • JoByDaylightJoByDaylight Member Posts: 698

    I believe the 25% bonus for each survivor hooked should be basekit. Maybe another version of it, make is 10% bonus for each hook when a survivor is not hooked twice in a row. That makes it possible to gain a total of 120% BP bonus if you play "perfect".

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 1,165

    You already get more points for killing 4 people than you do for killing 1 person and having everyone else on death hook. Try again. Also they removed the BP bonus from BBQ so now it's tunnel tunnel tunnel.


    You would need to do something like add to killer base kit : block the generator with the most progress until the hooked survivor is removed from the hook (if at least 3 survivors are alive). Furthermore affected Generators auto regress while blocked by this mechanic as if the killer had kicked them (but do not trigger overcharge skill checks, eruption or perks like dragon's grip).


    Tunneling is a way for the killer to reduce his objective time so that it aligns more closely with the time for survivors to finish their objective. In other words : when the gen rush is strong you counter that by camping a survivor around a 3 gen and tunneling them out of the game.


    Tunneling gens out of the game needs to be stopped so that killers don't feel the need to remove a survivor with the first three hooks.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 13,224

    Yes, a reward for playing fair and not tunneling would work. Sure, there would be exceptions, like before. Players that don´t give a f.

    But the majority of the players would attempt to play in a way that gives more points.

  • KaitsjaKaitsja Member Posts: 1,162

    There is no such thing as tunneling gens.

    Generators and Survivors are not equivalent in any way, shape or form. Survivors simply doing their objective is not genrushing, or to use your words "tunneling generators".

    Killers don't deserve to be spoon-fed kills for playing badly, just as survivors don't deserve to be spoon-fed escapes for playing badly. If you play badly, expect to lose.

    I'll say it as many times as it needs to be said, play however you want but don't expect the opposition to praise you for employing boring strategies to ensure your victory.

    Everyone who plays this game is, to a degree, responsible for ensuring that the game is fun for everyone involved.

  • LazyClownLazyClown Member Posts: 61

    To be fair while a survivor is doing a gen they are technically camping and tunneling their own objective (the gen). And when that happens no matter how fast the progression is on that said objective you are technically also taking fun away from the killer. That is why the best stance to have on the game for your sanity, well being, etc. is to always know that you have to make your own fun in dbd. If you cannot figure that out you have to move on to another game.

  • KaitsjaKaitsja Member Posts: 1,162

    They aren't technically anything. A generator is either repaired or it's not. If survivors doing their objective at all is unfun for the killer, then I'm afraid that person needs to find another game.

    What makes tunneling and camping unfun is the denial of being able to participate in normal gameplay. A survivor being tunneled doesn't get to participate in the altruistic elements, and they don't get to progress the objective. They only get to be chased, and should the killer decide to camp them, then that's just rubbing salt in the wound since now they don't even get to be chased.

    At no point is a killer prevented from participating in normal gameplay. A killer can chase, down, and hook survivors, as well as defend their generators. Now, it may not always be feasible to do so but at no point are they actively prevented from participating in normal gameplay with the sole exception being hackers, or more accurately "script kiddies".

  • darksouls3600darksouls3600 Member Posts: 140

    I know that tunneling is a hell of pain for survivors, but if we play nice, gens just get smashed, because of this tunneling and camping is becoming more common, get someone out quickly will make things more easy for killers, but sometimes tunneling can be the defeat for killers, focus in one person that he can't chase quickly.

    BP will make no difference for someone that have everything.

  • DBDVultureDBDVulture Member Posts: 1,165

    -"Generators and Survivors are not equivalent in any way, shape or form. Survivors simply doing their objective is not genrushing"

    I will now convince a logical person that this is in fact the case.

    What is the fastest way to win as survivor? You repair five generators with 100% repair progress without any gen ever getting any regression. You do not have "wasted" 20% repair progress on any generators.


    What is the fastest way to win as killer? You eliminate one survivor at a time to reduce repair efficiency by 25% with each elimination. You hook each person three times in a row to continually reduce maximum repair efficiency. You can slug to force one person to stop what they are doing to rescue the slug especially if the slug was protecting someone you want to tunnel. It is inefficient to hook each survivor twice before hooking anyone three times. This is the equivalent of getting gens almost repaired and then having them degrade to no progress.


    -"play however you want but don't expect the opposition to praise you for employing boring strategies to ensure your victory."

    How exciting is it for the killer when every generator gets finished in ~40 seconds because the survivors are using prove thyself and strong toolboxes. I could apply your same words to survivors who finish their objective in about 4 minutes - so fast that they can't possibly pip at red grads because there were almost no chases, and only 1-2 rescues off the hook.


    -"What makes tunneling and camping unfun is the denial of being able to participate in normal gameplay."

    Watch the streamers with 7-9k hours and you will see them sometimes lose all five generators with 0-2 hooks. Was that fun for them? No. It's a perfect example of survivor tunneling. There is no fun for the killer when the generators are done too quickly at no real risk.


    -"At no point is a killer prevented from participating in normal gameplay"


    This picture is important in the growth of the mind of a child when they can realize they see one image "first" and their parent might see another at a different angle. You have the same limitations as the child who assumes their parent sees the same image they see when you assume all things must serve the fun of the survivor.



    What if I said : at no point is a survivor prevented from participating in gameplay when I tunnel them out. They got to play the game - just not the way they wanted. Quite often I am literally forced as killer to get one player to stage two if I lose two or three generators in the first chase. That is the current pace of the game - you need MORE than one hook state per generator.


    Let me remind you that an expected outcome is 9-10 hook stages and 5 gens completed. That works out to an average of two hooks per generator completed. Every time I lose two generators in the first chase I immediately camp the next person to stage two so they are on death hook if they are surrounded by three close by generators. This makes completing one of those generators impossible and makes the best case scenario for rescue into a trade. It is the most powerful move I can make as killer and unfortunately it becomes my only move when people rush gens.


    Can you describe what you would call a perfect game of DBD?

  • LastchildLastchild Member Posts: 333

    Tunnel and camps are part of the gameplay of the game, you can't take that away from killers.

    Accept that it happens.

    Be better in loop, 360, mind game

  • RaSavage42RaSavage42 Member Posts: 4,299

    Killer are incentivized for Killing Survivors not for Hooks... just look at MMR explanation and the Tunneling complaints

    Also the HUD makes this even worse... Survivors can see who's been Hooked and how many times/ stages they had... but Killers only get the total number of hooks/ stages

  • DeathstrokeDeathstroke Member Posts: 1,615

    It would reduce it at least bit I mostly tunnel because it's earn me most likely more bp.

  • DeathstrokeDeathstroke Member Posts: 1,615

    Do that to 70 prestigate level nurse with range add ons.

  • schmebulockschmebulock Member Posts: 5

    I can't say I agree with targeting survivors because of the Endurance effect. It just sounds to me like punishing survivors for a core mechanic in their base kit. Especially since it can be a by-product of another survivor's perks and not something the one you're targeting specifically chose. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Unknown2765Unknown2765 Member Posts: 584



    You kinda missed the point of what i said, the survivors goes out of their way to block the killer with the endurance effect instead of running away, and by doing that, they become my next prey when i am playing killer, they could just have ran away and i would have left them alone, its not about the core mechanics, but about how they use them.

    I could also argue that tunneling and camping was a core mechanic, why else have the Insidious and Bloodhound the perks in the game ?

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