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My Rework to The Legion

vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338
edited February 20 in Feedback and Suggestions

In the past I’ve given Legion a lot of [BAD WORD] for being fundamentally broken but yet it also doesn’t really provide much insight on how to actually make legion fun for both sides and fix their fundamental issues. Nowadays I think that the power is an interesting concept that is simply flawed so with this rework I want to explain exactly what I would do to make The Legion better and healthier for the game.
Note : If you see * in the post, this means this part of the post has been updated, updates to the post will be listed at the bottom.

The first thing I want to point out before getting into the details for the sake of shortening the new power description is the following ;

  • Deep wounds will now be separate from healthy & injured state but instead an overlay like Freddy, Doctor and Pig. The function is the same but it no longer specifically means “injured”
  • The timer does not tick within 20* meters of The Legion
  • You can no longer decrease the timer by spam stabbing a survivor.
  • The power no longer depletes by regularly hitting a survivor.
    With that being said, now it’s time for the rework.

The rework

Power - Feral Frenzy
Feral Frenzy comes with 3 modes :

  • Stalk
  • Normal
  • Frenzy

Legion starts off in the normal state where they move at 115% movement speed (4.6 m/s) with a 32 meter terror radius.
Pressing ctrl will activate their stalk, by doing so the following occurs ;

  • The killer now moves at 110% speed (4.4 m/s)*
  • The killer hunches over with a tremendously decreased terror radius (8 meters)*
  • The killer cannot directly attack or interact with anything aside from vaulting windows and opening lockers.
  • Holding M2 down in this mode allows you to stalk. 1 second of stalking = 3.5 seconds of duration up to a maximum of 14 seconds.

Once fully charged Legion can now directly go into ambush mode from stalk or normal mode, when in use Feral Frenzy will do the following ;

  • Your terror radius is increased to 40 meters
  • Your movement speed is increased to 132% (5.28 m/s)
  • The Frenzy lasts for 14 seconds but can be refilled upon hitting a fresh survivor
  • You cannot hit an already deep wounded survivor
  • Each time you hit a fresh survivor your frenzy speed is increased (+5%) while your duration is decreased (-2 seconds).
  • You can pull people off of generators, lockers and totems while in your frenzy.
  • You go into a quick fatigue when you end your power
  • Any power kept at the end of your Frenzy will stay and you only need to fill the rest of your power gauge.

The following occurs to survivors inflicted with deep wounds ;

  • The status effect becomes something like madness and dream state where it’s an overlay, not a health state.
  • The bar will go down over the course of 20 seconds for as long as you’re not within 20* meters of the killer.
  • The more you bar drops, the darker your screen gets, if the timer goes out you will be downed.
  • The mending process will take 20 seconds and your bar will still go down while mending but you will not drop unless you stop the action yourself.
  • Reveals other survivors within your terror radius that are not inflicted with deep wounds*

So why so much? This in my opinion fixes the fundamental issues with legion while keeping the concept very much the same as a killer intended to stall the game out with deep wounds while also not simply obtaining “free hits” or causing an easily abusable chase mechanic. Now that we have separated legion’s power from being able to injure people or down them by simply spamming it we are now free to allow them to go faster or even allow for 115% movement speed and may now even properly apply their deep wounds with real pressure and faster the more they actually do so while also not totally making them vulnerable to loops or denying survivors every last mechanic.
Here is the math for how each stage of the frenzy would work ;

  • 0 survivors hit = 14 second duration x 5.28 m/s movement speed, this means the legion can move up to 73.92 meters without getting fatigued, but in theory this should usually be the fastest hit anyways.
  • 1 survivor hit = 12 second duration x 5.48 m/s movement speed, this means the legion can move up to 65.76 meters.
  • 2 survivors hit = 10 second duration x 5.68 m/s movement speed, this means the legion can move up to 56.8 meters.
  • 3 survivors hit = 8 second duration x 5.88 m/s movement speed, this means the legion can move up to 47.08 meters.
  • 4 survivors hit = 6 second duration x 6.08 m/s movement speed, this means the legion can move a final distance of 36.48 meters.

This will allow legion to properly go around the map and inflict deep wounds as needed, because the timer goes down faster the more survivors you hit it becomes harder to perfectly save your duration if you suddenly stopped it and will encourage smarter use of the power itself. Now, this rework means that some addons just simply need to go (be reworked), so how can we do that exactly? Simple! The following below are all the new ideas behind a total overhaul of nearly all of the addons legion has! This rework also means that each legion member’s addon would become a very rare respectively with a special addition.

Addon rework

Smiley Face Pin (Common);

  • You can no longer see the scratchmarks of deep wounded survivors.
  • Gain 500 deviousness points each time you hit a deep wounded survivor with a basic attack.

Scratched Ruler (Common);

  • Slightly decreases stalk time. (3.5 seconds instead of 4)

Mischief List (Common);

  • Your terror radius is suppressed for deep wounded survivors.

Friendship Bracelet (Common);

  • Your terror radius is expanded by an additional 10 meters when you enter the frenzy.

Never-Sleep Pills (Uncommon);

  • Gives you a slight speed boost for 0.5 seconds after your fatigue.

Mural Sketch (Uncommon);

  • Moderately increases duration of each frenzy stage by 0.5 seconds)

Nasty Blade (Uncommon);

  • Moderately increases the time it takes to mend. (+3 seconds)

Etched Ruler (Uncommon);

  • Moderately decreases stalk time. (3 seconds instead of 4)

Defaced Smiley Pin (Uncommon);

  • Moderately increases overall Feral Frenzy movement speed. (+2%)

The Legion Pin (Rare);

  • Considerably increases overall Feral Frenzy movement speed. (+3%)

Stab Wound Studies (Rare);

  • Considerably decreases deep wound timer for inflicted survivors.

Stolen Sketch Book (Rare);

  • Moderately decreases duration burn while in the Frenzy. (1.5 seconds of duration is lost instead of 2)

Filthy Blade (Rare);

  • Considerably increases the time it takes to mend. (+7 seconds)

Cold Dirt (Rare);

  • Moderately decreases fatigue time and slightly decreases stacked speed boost. (+3% instead of +5%)

Frank’s Mix Tape (Very Rare);

  • Your fatigue no longer makes any sound and you no longer have a stain while in the frenzy.

Each time a fresh survivor is hit while in the Feral Frenzy the following occurs ;

  • Your terror radius is decreased by 20 meters
  • When coming out of the Frenzy you retain your terror radius and stain changes for an additional 8 seconds.

Joey’s Mix Tape (Very Rare);

  • You now have collision when coming out of Feral Frenzy.

Susie’s Mix Tape (Very Rare);

  • When chaining hits with the Feral Frenzy, your duration burn is tremendously decreased. (1 second of duration is lost instead of 2)
  • You retain part of your speed boost in a final sprint after your fatigue (1 second of speed boost)

Julie’s Mix Tape (Very Rare) ;

  • Time required to mend tremendously increases for the first survivor hit. (30 seconds)
  • Each survivor afterwords has their mind time cut by 5 seconds (25 > 20 > 15)
  • Tremendously decreases the amount of time to stalk a survivor. (2 seconds instead of 4).

Iridescent Button (Ultra Rare);

  • Your terror radius fills the entire map and pallets are broken when you vault them during the feral frenzy after you inflict them with deep wounds.
    With the rework, the addon may stay the same because it would now be viable.

Fuming Mix Tape (Ultra Rare);

  • Intensity of the aura’s on the generators grows the more the progress is made to a generator.

In general though, this is my rework for The Legion which comes with a big overhaul to the perks and the addons. It isn't perfect but with this suggestion I hope to fix many of the balancing issues the current version of Legion suffers from and most of the unfun aspects that survivors have to deal with at the same time.

Ingame description

Basic Information;
Movement Speed : 115% (4.6 m/s)
Terror Radius : 32

Power : Feral Frenzy
The Legion has a power gauge that can be built up by briefly stalking a survivor.
Whilst in stalk mode your movement speed is slightly decreased but tremendously decreases your terror radius. The stalk requires 4 seconds to fully charge your power gauge.
When your gauge is full you may activate your power in any mode and upon activation the legion enters a deadly rage. While the power is active:

  • The legion sprints at 5.28 m/s for 14 seconds.
  • The legion can vault pallets and windows.
  • Missed attacks have a reduced cool-down.
  • Expands your terror radius to 40 meters.

While Feral Frenzy is active, hitting a fresh survivor does the following:

  • Inflicts them with deep wounds but does not boost them.
  • Activates killer instinct which allows you to see other survivors in your terror radius.
  • Refills power gauge.
  • Each hit that inflicts deep wounds increases your Feral Frenzy movement speed by 5% and decreases your duration by 2 seconds.

Ending your power does the following;

  • Puts you into a brief fatigue for 1.5 seconds.
  • Resets changes to your speed and duration.
  • Ending your power early allows you to retain roughly the same amount of use in your gauge to allow for quicker stalking.

Survivors must mend themselves or they will go down.

Updates

2/20/19

  • Increased the range of which the deep wounds timer does not drop from 16 meters to 20 meters.
  • Clarified that legion still has tracking capability when the power is used.
  • Moved new deep wound system introduced with the frank's mixtape addon to Julie's mixtape to make it more worthwhile.
  • Cleaned up the addon section a bit!
  • Adjusted Legion's stalk mechanic, the legion now hunches over and moves at 110% while in the stalk mode instead of 105% with a tremendously decreased terror radius while active (8 meters)
  • Cleaned up the post overall to make it easier to read.
  • Added a description of how the power would look ingame.
Post edited by vampire_toothy on

Comments

  • tt_ivi_99tt_ivi_99 Member Posts: 1,257
    Devs said they wanted this "stalk" mechanic just like Myers but they felt It was unnecessary and they removed it.

    It's cool the fact that you can not abuse his power but not being able to hit survivors is too much. It would be better if you could stab someone just like It works now but the timing doesnt drop down, instead the survivor suffers from a random debuff, just to keep his power interesting.
  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338

    @tt_ivi_99 said:
    Devs said they wanted this "stalk" mechanic just like Myers but they felt It was unnecessary and they removed it.

    It's cool the fact that you can not abuse his power but not being able to hit survivors is too much. It would be better if you could stab someone just like It works now but the timing doesnt drop down, instead the survivor suffers from a random debuff, just to keep his power interesting.

    Well, part of the issue from how I look at it is that legion uses the same exact cooldown mechanic as spirit with some slight changes to it, it's a little too similar too soon pretty much. Granted, we could ignore this and totally take out the stalking idea or keep it but it more so becomes difficult to rule it out when we don't really know in what way they wanted to do the stalk mechanic.

    We could make it so the frenzy applies more debuffs, but otherwise there wouldn't really be a point to spam hit survivors other than letting them get even further away so this rework really just allows people to apply deep wounds and then actually be able to chase.

  • ΩmegaHyp3ΩmegaHyp3 Member Posts: 1

    Most of the rework ideas are really good except for some addon reworks. Iridescent button for one. Other than that. All good.

  • Shad03Shad03 Member Posts: 3,712

    I do enjoy reading ideas such as this one. The creativity people use to think of things is a refreshing breath of air.

    The overhaul is interesting however I feel like the duration should increase for every hit, but of course I can see the reasons why it would decrease so I shall not say nothing more on that matter.

    I like the idea of a stalk mechanic and it would definitely fit a group of mischievous teens who gone murder happy. And finally, the Pin Add on isn't so useless any more. It even gives points! (I do feel you should add in another 250 points, or make it a solid 100% so that it keeps in line with the other add ons that directly affect the killers viability i.e The Wraith's Beast add on, The Hillbilly/Cannibal Speed Limiter, The Trapper's Padded Jaws)

    Anyways, there is not much I can say except this would be something I could get behind on. But then again, anything is better then nothing at this point.

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338

    @Shad03 said:
    I do enjoy reading ideas such as this one. The creativity people use to think of things is a refreshing breath of air.

    The overhaul is interesting however I feel like the duration should increase for every hit, but of course I can see the reasons why it would decrease so I shall not say nothing more on that matter.

    I like the idea of a stalk mechanic and it would definitely fit a group of mischievous teens who gone murder happy. And finally, the Pin Add on isn't so useless any more. It even gives points! (I do feel you should add in another 250 points, or make it a solid 100% so that it keeps in line with the other add ons that directly affect the killers viability i.e The Wraith's Beast add on, The Hillbilly/Cannibal Speed Limiter, The Trapper's Padded Jaws)

    Anyways, there is not much I can say except this would be something I could get behind on. But then again, anything is better then nothing at this point.

    I'm not opposed to upping the point gain on that actually, I'll up it to 500.

    Regarding the duration burn the reason why I went for that idea is that I wanted Legion to be able to really use their mobility but also give them choices every step of the way to achieve what their power should allow them to do. The reason why I have the duration decrease is that when the speed increases you're making a still considerable distance in less time which also allows you to chain your hits faster to make mending multiple survivors worthwhile.

    Something interesting to note actually is that if you combine Susie's mixtape with stolen sketchbook with this rework is that the duration burn is almost non-existent allowing you to travel roughly the same distance each stage.

  • NuclearBurrito2NuclearBurrito2 Member Posts: 262

    So take the pig... replace her bear traps with the shape... and then use all of that build up to do an action that doesn't even down them!?

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 162

    If you ask me, this post looks like some survivor main who wishes that they delete Legion from the game by making him and his entire power worthless beyond of what it is now.

    Your first stage has half-baked version of pig's ability, if you like playing pig, you can just pick pig instead of turning legion into pig. Not only that, You also successfully managed to implement Freddy's dream world mechanic onto him(by not allowing him to hit deep wound survivors) and on top of that, your reward for stalking in comparison to Mysers went from Instant down to even more conditional timer that you can't even use if your remotely next to a survivor.

    Just from my first paragraph, can you see how terrible weak the killer is without even adding it into the game? It's like you managed to think of every possible worthless mechanic in the game and slap into one killer to make greatest F-tier in dead by daylight history.

  • BrendanLeeTBrendanLeeT Member Posts: 152
    edited February 20

    @Devil_hit11 said:
    If you ask me, this post looks like some survivor main who wishes that they delete Legion from the game by making him and his entire power worthless beyond of what it is now.

    Your first stage has half-baked version of pig's ability, if you like playing pig, you can just pick pig instead of turning legion into pig. Not only that, You also successfully managed to implement Freddy's dream world mechanic onto him(by not allowing him to hit deep wound survivors) and on top of that, your reward for stalking in comparison to Mysers went from Instant down to even more conditional timer that you can't even use if your remotely next to a survivor.

    Just from my first paragraph, can you see how terrible weak the killer is without even adding it into the game? It's like you managed to think of every possible worthless mechanic in the game and slap into one killer to make greatest F-tier in dead by daylight history.

    Just because someone has an option doesn't make them a survivor main. People like you need to get out of the "Survivor main vs killer main" mindset and just grow up and stop acting childish. Everyone is free to have an opinion and just because you disagree doesn't make them a "Killer or survivor main".

    This is why the forums can't work properly because if one person has an opinion against the opposing side, they're automatically marked as a survivor or killer main which shouldn't be the case.

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338
    edited February 20

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:
    So take the pig... replace her bear traps with the shape... and then use all of that build up to do an action that doesn't even down them!?

    I don't think you understand the rework well enough, in addition to this a power does not need to be able to down in order to be good, it needs to actually function as intended.
    I implemented the stalk idea because the devs talked about it in the past so I wanted to see if I could incorporate it into my current rework and see what people think of it and I myself have even stated that this power could perhaps do without the stalking aspect if you read my responses, I just wanted to see what people thought about this rework first.
    Also keep in mind, this rework grants legion the ability to really sneak up on survivors AND have way more mobility than their current version could ever wish to achieve, if you did the math and timed everything perfectly you could travel a total of 280.3 meters at a much faster rate than a normal killer with this just for using 4 seconds of your own time in a match (or less if you end your power early and refill your bar from there!). This power can still down people if they do not mend, but like the current version of legion it's designed to pressure survivors into wasting time, not specifically to down people and this gets rid of exploiting deep wounds.

    @Devil_hit11 said:
    If you ask me, this post looks like some survivor main who wishes that they delete Legion from the game by making him and his entire power worthless beyond of what it is now.

    Your first stage has half-baked version of pig's ability, if you like playing pig, you can just pick pig instead of turning legion into pig. Not only that, You also successfully managed to implement Freddy's dream world mechanic onto him(by not allowing him to hit deep wound survivors) and on top of that, your reward for stalking in comparison to Mysers went from Instant down to even more conditional timer that you can't even use if your remotely next to a survivor.

    Just from my first paragraph, can you see how terrible weak the killer is without even adding it into the game? It's like you managed to think of every possible worthless mechanic in the game and slap into one killer to make greatest F-tier in dead by daylight history.

    I'm sorry, but if the first thing you're going to say is to call me a survivor main then I'd appreciate it if you took your attitude elsewhere, calling someone a "killer main" or "survivor main" is only a means of splitting up and demeaning members of the community. But I actually mostly play killer and out of all the killers I play Spirit and Wraith the most while Legion is my third most played killer as of lately because I wanted to understand how to go about this rework. Here's some proof if you don't believe me ;

    So, how about we stop accusing and instead get to some real productive discussion here, from here I'll address the rest of your post.

    1 : Wrong, this does not turn Legion into a half-baked pig. While I will agree the stalking idea is similar to both pig and myers, this actually allows legion to travel faster than pig's ambush (105% instead of 95%) and is only intended to allow Legion to get closer to survivors making it harder to notice.

    2 : Why does legion need to be able to hit deep wounded survivors who are already inflicted with the effect, what more do you want it to do without it totally breaking the game mechanics and making the game totally skill-less and unfun? I have compensated this change with insane mobility that legion could not ever achieve before, their power is made to stall and would be unfun to allow it to down people directly rather than indirectly.

    3 : This timer is actually better, legion's current timer can barely allow him to chain hits unless survivors are directly next to each other, my rework fixes that by allowing legion to have more tracking capabilities and drastically increasing mobility while providing you more freedom to play how you want.

    Please take a moment to reread my post as I believe you are misunderstanding this. This rework is a straight up buff to legion while removing game breaking mechanics from them giving players of both sides what they want, I've even consulted plenty of killers and survivors about my idea before even putting it up on the forums to get their feedback. Instead of just calling my rework trash, a rework of which I've spent countless hours of playing and learning legion and every single addon they have, hours of putting together this new idea, I would really appreciate it if you could instead offer constructive criticism as to how you yourself would improve the legion or my rework. I don't think you understand the process behind making a detailed rework, you can't just pop them out of nowhere.

    Post edited by vampire_toothy on
  • Tucking_FriggeredTucking_Friggered Member Posts: 627
    edited February 20

    You should title this "Survivor Approved Rework to Legion". For funsies tell me why in your rework Legion wouldn't just opt to play as a M1 killer and never use their power? With the level of complication and impotence it seems somewhat pointless. Instead of wasting hours writing up reworks, just play the game. You lack the talent or impartiality to come up with something anyone would want to play much less have paid cash for.

    "Now that we have separated legion’s power from being able to injure people or down them"

    We can boil it down to this. Hello, Freddy, I mean Legion. Except with none of the slowing, a more complicated playstyle, and complete lack of a useful endgame.

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338
    edited February 20

    @Tucking_Friggered said:
    You should title this "Survivor Approved Rework to Legion". For funsies tell me why in your rework Legion wouldn't just opt to play as a M1 killer and never use their power? With the level of complication and impotence it seems somewhat pointless. Instead of wasting hours writing up reworks, just play the game. You lack the talent or impartiality to come up with something anyone would want to play much less have paid cash for.

    "Now that we have separated legion’s power from being able to injure people or down them"

    We can boil it down to this. Hello, Freddy, I mean Legion. Except with none of the slowing, a more complicated playstyle, and complete lack of a useful endgame.

    All your post does is drive people away from wanting to discuss about fun ideas. There is literally no reason to defend the current state of legion.

    To explain though, yes this is a complicated rework but it would not be complicated to make a basic description for the new version of the power, this post is longer because I go behind the math, addon ideas and in-depth discussion about the rework itself.

    Here is why you would use the power instead of just using M1 ;

    • The power helps you pressure survivors into the mend action which with this rework has been buffed to a baseline of being a 20 second action.
    • This temporarily prevents survivors from doing anything else while giving you a large mobility boost, this boost is infact better than what legion can currently achieve which I believe is around 7 seconds of duration which is only 36.96 meters (147.84 at absolute most) vs 14 seconds of duration with this rework and 73.92 meters (maximum with duration burn included is a whopping 280.3 meters).
    • You can use your alternative to sneak up to people, it fits in character with some crazed teens.
    • Fixes the problem Legion previous had where they couldn't even chain hits on separated survivors.
    • EDIT : You also still keep your tracking with legion, the power also helps you find people just like his power does now and his expanded terror radius with his frenzy makes this even better!
    • EDIT 2 : You can directly pull survivors out of generators, totems and lockers with your frenzy.

    It's literally a direct improvement to legion with extras while removing cheesy mechanics.
    You also fail to acknowledge how well this extra mobility could work out.

    Post edited by vampire_toothy on
  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338

    Because I feel some people have misunderstood this post, I have decided to do a brief edit over it to make it easier to read and improve some aspects of the power, including a slight buff to my proposed stalking mechanic.

    Updates

    2/20/19

    • Increased the range of which the deep wounds timer does not drop from 16 meters to 20 meters.
    • Clarified that legion still has tracking capability when the power is used.
    • Moved new deep wound system introduced with the frank's mixtape addon to Julie's mixtape to make it more worthwhile.
    • Cleaned up the addon section a bit!
    • Adjusted Legion's stalk mechanic, the legion now hunches over and moves at 110% while in the stalk mode instead of 105% with a tremendously decreased terror radius while active (8 meters)
    • Cleaned up the post overall to make it easier to read.
  • Tucking_FriggeredTucking_Friggered Member Posts: 627
    edited February 20

    Your ideas are only fun for you and survivors. Period. No thanks. I'm all stocked up on buying garbage useless killers that aren't worth bothering with beyond rank 10. Your post is literally nothing but a transformation of a killer into something not worth bothering with. There is literally no direct improvement at all.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @Tucking_Friggered said:
    Your ideas are only fun for you and survivors. Period. No thanks. I'm all stocked up on buying garbage useless killers that aren't worth bothering with beyond rank 10. Your post is literally nothing but a transformation of a killer into something not worth bothering with. There is literally no direct improvement at all.

    Your posts are all well if it's not a straight buff to muh broken killer then it's a survivor main posting a nerf and it seems you and a certain other are here to do nothing but troll.

    Which brings to mind the question which smurf are you.

  • Shad03Shad03 Member Posts: 3,712

    @Tucking_Friggered said:
    You should title this "Survivor Approved Rework to Legion". For funsies tell me why in your rework Legion wouldn't just opt to play as a M1 killer and never use their power? With the level of complication and impotence it seems somewhat pointless. Instead of wasting hours writing up reworks, just play the game. You lack the talent or impartiality to come up with something anyone would want to play much less have paid cash for.

    "Now that we have separated legion’s power from being able to injure people or down them"

    We can boil it down to this. Hello, Freddy, I mean Legion. Except with none of the slowing, a more complicated playstyle, and complete lack of a useful endgame.

    1) By your logic, as a Trapper I should never use his power since I would waste precious seconds using it. No, the potential of catching survivors makes the power worth it. I would assume you had not read the post literally right above yours, if you have, then you are a troll and I would have no further wishes to speak with you.

    2) ...

    3) Read the post. Again.

  • Tucking_FriggeredTucking_Friggered Member Posts: 627

    @Shad03 said:

    @Tucking_Friggered said:
    You should title this "Survivor Approved Rework to Legion". For funsies tell me why in your rework Legion wouldn't just opt to play as a M1 killer and never use their power? With the level of complication and impotence it seems somewhat pointless. Instead of wasting hours writing up reworks, just play the game. You lack the talent or impartiality to come up with something anyone would want to play much less have paid cash for.

    "Now that we have separated legion’s power from being able to injure people or down them"

    We can boil it down to this. Hello, Freddy, I mean Legion. Except with none of the slowing, a more complicated playstyle, and complete lack of a useful endgame.

    1) By your logic, as a Trapper I should never use his power since I would waste precious seconds using it. No, the potential of catching survivors makes the power worth it. I would assume you had not read the post literally right above yours, if you have, then you are a troll and I would have no further wishes to speak with you.

    2) ...

    3) Read the post. Again.

    After reading your post and how pitiful your comparison is I already don't wish to speak with you. Epic fail.

  • Shad03Shad03 Member Posts: 3,712

    @Tucking_Friggered said:

    @Shad03 said:

    @Tucking_Friggered said:
    You should title this "Survivor Approved Rework to Legion". For funsies tell me why in your rework Legion wouldn't just opt to play as a M1 killer and never use their power? With the level of complication and impotence it seems somewhat pointless. Instead of wasting hours writing up reworks, just play the game. You lack the talent or impartiality to come up with something anyone would want to play much less have paid cash for.

    "Now that we have separated legion’s power from being able to injure people or down them"

    We can boil it down to this. Hello, Freddy, I mean Legion. Except with none of the slowing, a more complicated playstyle, and complete lack of a useful endgame.

    1) By your logic, as a Trapper I should never use his power since I would waste precious seconds using it. No, the potential of catching survivors makes the power worth it. I would assume you had not read the post literally right above yours, if you have, then you are a troll and I would have no further wishes to speak with you.

    2) ...

    3) Read the post. Again.

    After reading your post and how pitiful your comparison is I already don't wish to speak with you. Epic fail.

    It was not a serious comparison. It was to show you how ridiculous your argument was. I don't know if I failed in expressing this or if you just couldn't tell because of reasons I will not note. I did not fail here my friend, you merely could not comprehend my meaning. Good day.

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,790

    This thread is getting pretty negative. My largest gripe about your proposal is that it is entirely too complicated. Players shouldn't have to read a short story to understand what a killer does. It isn't intuitive either.

  • Tucking_FriggeredTucking_Friggered Member Posts: 627
    edited February 20

    @Shad03 said:

    @Tucking_Friggered said:

    @Shad03 said:

    @Tucking_Friggered said:
    You should title this "Survivor Approved Rework to Legion". For funsies tell me why in your rework Legion wouldn't just opt to play as a M1 killer and never use their power? With the level of complication and impotence it seems somewhat pointless. Instead of wasting hours writing up reworks, just play the game. You lack the talent or impartiality to come up with something anyone would want to play much less have paid cash for.

    "Now that we have separated legion’s power from being able to injure people or down them"

    We can boil it down to this. Hello, Freddy, I mean Legion. Except with none of the slowing, a more complicated playstyle, and complete lack of a useful endgame.

    1) By your logic, as a Trapper I should never use his power since I would waste precious seconds using it. No, the potential of catching survivors makes the power worth it. I would assume you had not read the post literally right above yours, if you have, then you are a troll and I would have no further wishes to speak with you.

    2) ...

    3) Read the post. Again.

    After reading your post and how pitiful your comparison is I already don't wish to speak with you. Epic fail.

    It was not a serious comparison. It was to show you how ridiculous your argument was. I don't know if I failed in expressing this or if you just couldn't tell because of reasons I will not note. I did not fail here my friend, you merely could not comprehend my meaning. Good day.

    Yeah, you didn't though. You made a poor comparison as that power end chases or stops them from even having to occur. I comprehended your meaning just fine but you were too caught up with disagreeing that you didn't think your post through.

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338
    edited February 20

    @Dreamnomad said:
    This thread is getting pretty negative. My largest gripe about your proposal is that it is entirely too complicated. Players shouldn't have to read a short story to understand what a killer does. It isn't intuitive either.

    Yeah I unfortunately can't do anything about some of the responses on here by a particular individual so unfortunately this is pretty negative because of that.

    I understand this part and why you might think this is complicated but really this is only an in-depth way of explaining exactly how the power should function, this in no way would be the finalized explanation of the power. I'd imagine most powers would need a lot of explanation to fully explain exactly how it would work while an actual description can get rid of the specifics, for instance you wouldn't need some of the paragraphs in my post nor explain in the power description regarding the anti-moonwalk or anything like that.

    Post edited by vampire_toothy on
  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,790

    @vampire_toothy said:

    @Dreamnomad said:
    This thread is getting pretty negative. My largest gripe about your proposal is that it is entirely too complicated. Players shouldn't have to read a short story to understand what a killer does. It isn't intuitive either.

    Yeah I unfortunately can't do anything about some of the responses on here by a particular individual so unfortunately this is pretty negative because of that.

    I understand this part and why you might think this is complicated but really this is only an in-depth way of explaining exactly how the power should function, this in no way would be the finalized explanation of the power. I'd imagine most powers would need a lot of explanation to fully explain exactly how it would work while an actual description can get rid of the specifics, for instance you wouldn't need some of the paragraphs in my post nor explain in the power description regarding the anti-moonwalk or anything like that.

    Here's an idea then. Why don't you write what the in game tool tip would read? Don't worry about explaining the "why's" and specifics. If your change was in the game then what would I read when I look at the power description?

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338
    edited February 20

    @Dreamnomad said:
    Here's an idea then. Why don't you write what the in game tool tip would read? Don't worry about explaining the "why's" and specifics. If your change was in the game then what would I read when I look at the power description?

    I have taken your feedback and updated my original post, I've still kept my indepth explanation but towards the end I've added how it would explain it to you ingame. This is what was added ;

    Ingame description

    Basic Information;
    Movement Speed : 115% (4.6 m/s)
    Terror Radius : 32

    Power : Feral Frenzy
    The Legion has a power gauge that can be built up by briefly stalking a survivor.
    Whilst in stalk mode your movement speed is slightly decreased but tremendously decreases your terror radius. The stalk requires 4 seconds to fully charge your power gauge.
    When your gauge is full you may activate your power in any mode and upon activation the legion enters a deadly rage. While the power is active:

    • The legion sprints at 5.28 m/s for 14 seconds.
    • The legion can vault pallets and windows.
    • Missed attacks have a reduced cool-down.
    • Expands your terror radius to 40 meters.

    While Feral Frenzy is active, hitting a fresh survivor does the following:

    • Inflicts them with deep wounds but does not boost them.
    • Activates killer instinct which allows you to see other survivors in your terror radius.
    • Refills power gauge.
    • Each hit that inflicts deep wounds increases your Feral Frenzy movement speed by 5% and decreases your duration by 2 seconds.

    Ending your power does the following;

    • Puts you into a brief fatigue for 1.5 seconds.
    • Resets changes to your speed and duration.
    • Ending your power early allows you to retain roughly the same amount of use in your gauge to allow for quicker stalking.

    Survivors must mend themselves or they will go down.

    Post edited by vampire_toothy on
  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 3,931

    @vampire_toothy said:

    @Dreamnomad said:
    Here's an idea then. Why don't you write what the in game tool tip would read? Don't worry about explaining the "why's" and specifics. If your change was in the game then what would I read when I look at the power description?

    I have taken your feedback and updated my original post, I've still kept my indepth explanation but towards the end I've added how it would explain it to you ingame. This is what was added ;

    Ingame description

    Basic Information;
    Movement Speed : 115% (4.6 m/s)
    Terror Radius : 32

    Power : Feral Frenzy
    The Legion has a power gauge that can be built up by briefly stalking a survivor.
    Whilst in stalk mode your movement speed is slightly decreased but tremendously decreases your terror radius.
    When your gauge is full you may activate your power in any mode and upon activation the legion enters a deadly rage. While the power is active:

    • The legion sprints faster than the base movement speed.
    • The legion can vault pallets and windows.
    • Missed attacks have a reduced cool-down.
    • Expands your terror radius.

    While Feral Frenzy is active, hitting a fresh survivor does the following:

    • Inflicts them with deep wounds.
    • Activates killer instinct which allows you to see other survivors in your terror radius.
    • Refills power gauge.
    • Slightly increases movement speed and slightly lowers duration for each fresh survivor hit.

    You may end your power at any time to retain roughly the same amount of uses in your gauge for later, when you end your power by any means you go into a brief fatigue.
    Survivors must mend themselves or they will go down.

    Some things this is missing:

    What happens if you hit a deep wounded survivor?
    Does the lowered duration and increase movement speed stick?

    Also not expected to be on the class card but:

    Exactly how fast is FF? (I'd assume it's still 132% by default)
    How fast does the stalk bar fill? Is it effected by more that once survivor being in front of you at once?
    Does it start filled?

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338

    @NuclearBurrito2
    Some things this is missing:

    What happens if you hit a deep wounded survivor?
    Does the lowered duration and increase movement speed stick?

    Also not expected to be on the class card but:

    Exactly how fast is FF? (I'd assume it's still 132% by default)
    How fast does the stalk bar fill? Is it effected by more that once survivor being in front of you at once?
    Does it start filled?

    Interesting points, I'll update the experimental class card to explain the stacked movement speed and duration changes and that you can't spam the feral frenzy on one survivor.

    Regarding the other two parts, I avoid explaining speeds because the devs have not given numbers in the descriptions for Billy, Spirit, Wraith, Nurse, Pig's ambush or current Legion for their power descriptions, same thing with Myers - we don't get the numbers so I can't really guarantee it would be worth leaving in the description. But yes, FF is still 132% by default and 152% at maximum with the frenzy stacking.

    By the time you get this notification the two posts I made should be updated, so feel free to let me know what you think. (if you don't see it give it two minutes before checking again)

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 3,931

    @vampire_toothy said:

    @NuclearBurrito2
    Some things this is missing:

    What happens if you hit a deep wounded survivor?
    Does the lowered duration and increase movement speed stick?

    Also not expected to be on the class card but:

    Exactly how fast is FF? (I'd assume it's still 132% by default)
    How fast does the stalk bar fill? Is it effected by more that once survivor being in front of you at once?
    Does it start filled?

    Interesting points, I'll update the experimental class card to explain the stacked movement speed and duration changes and that you can't spam the feral frenzy on one survivor.

    Regarding the other two parts, I avoid explaining speeds because the devs have not given numbers in the descriptions for Billy, Spirit, Wraith, Nurse, Pig's ambush or current Legion for their power descriptions, same thing with Myers - we don't get the numbers so I can't really guarantee it would be worth leaving in the description. But yes, FF is still 132% by default and 152% at maximum with the frenzy stacking.

    By the time you get this notification the two posts I made should be updated, so feel free to let me know what you think. (if you don't see it give it two minutes before checking again)

    I know they wouldn't be in the actual description. But the values do exist and they are important so I'd like to know what you are going for there. Obviously the numbers are flexible (so it's not like saying the wrong number will suddenly make your suggestion fundamentally [BAD WORD]) but it is good to know what you are going for (15 seconds of stalking is very different from 3 seconds of stalking)

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 338

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    I know they wouldn't be in the actual description. But the values do exist and they are important so I'd like to know what you are going for there. Obviously the numbers are flexible (so it's not like saying the wrong number will suddenly make your suggestion fundamentally [BAD WORD]) but it is good to know what you are going for (15 seconds of stalking is very different from 3 seconds of stalking)

    I've edited the post once more, is that better?

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