Upcoming DS changes - Q&A

not_Queennot_Queen Administrator, Dev, Community Manager Posts: 906
edited February 21 in General Discussions

So we know that a lot of you had tons of questions about the upcoming DS changes.
So here we go!

Can a player use DS more than 1 time per match?

No.

Do you lose the chance to use DS if you aren't using it on the first carry?

No you do not, the perk is disabled only when you miss or succeed the DS skillcheck.

Does the timer continues when in dying state / being healed?

Yes. The timer acts like the timer from Make your Choice or We'll Make it for example.

When are these changes coming?

These changes will be implemented in the next update. They will be available in the next Player Test Build as well.

Why shorten the killer stun?

We will be looking closely at feedback and interactions from the PTB to decide if we need to adjust the stun time.

DS change happened, how about NOED changes?

We aren't planning to change NOED at the moment. We consider that NOED has multiple gameplay counters and is currently in a good place. We do not think of NOED as an equivalent to DS.

How does the DS changes affect the other Obsession perks?

  • Increases your chance to become the obsession.  
  • The Killer can only be Obsessed with one survivor at a time. 

Survivor Perks

Decisive Strike

  • Transfers the Obsession status to the Decisive Strike user when successfully triggered during a trial.

Sole Survivor

  • No Change

Object of Obsession

  • Only the active Obsession has the ability to see the killer at a maximum range of 56/64/72 meters.

Killer Perks

Save the Best for Last

  • No matter the active Obsession, if a killer with Save the Best for Last hits a survivor who is the obsession they will lose 4/3/2 tokens.
  • The player who is no longer the obsession will be treated as a non-obsession, adding a 5% decreased successful attack cool down per hit.
  • The killer doesn't lose his tokens when the Obsession status is transferred to another survivor unless he hits the active Obsession.

Play With Your Food

  • No matter who has been the Obsession, if a killer with Play With Your Food chases and lets the active Obsession escape, they will gain a movement speed token until their next offensive action.
  • The player who is no longer the Obsession will be treated as a non-obsession, meaning that activating a chase with a non-obsession and losing the chase will not grant the killer a PWYF token.

Dying Light

  • The active Obsession has the altruistic action speed bonus while they are alive.
  • If the active Obsession is killed, Dying Light's de-buff is applied to all remaining survivors.
  • If, at some point in the trial, another player becomes the Obsession, Dying Lights de-buff will be removed as the Obsession is considered alive again.

Remember Me

  • No matter the active Obsession, hitting the Obsession will add +5 seconds of Exit Gate opening time up to a maximum of 20/25/30 additional seconds.
  • All additional seconds are kept when the Obsession is killed, and if the active Obsession changes.
  • The active Obsession always ignore the extra door opening times. They are not affected by Remember Me.

Rancor

  • The active Obsession will be revealed for 5/4/3 seconds when a generator is completed.
  • The non-Obsessions, even one that was recently the Obsession, will have their locations revealed for 3 seconds after a generator is completed.
  • Once all generators have been completed, the active Obsession will be exposed and can be killed. This is true for any active Obsession which means that the Rancor mori can potentially be used up to 4 times.

Killer Add-ons

Judith's Journal
Stalking the active Obsession grants more stalks points per second.

Black Box
Only active at the start of the match. Will not reactivate when the Obsession changes.

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Comments

  • WeederickWeederick Member Posts: 531

    Regarding Save the Best for Last:
    Its not possible to gain more tokens, when the obsession dies.
    If you kill the obsession and you get DS'ed afterwards, they become a living obsession. Can you gain tokens again afterwards?

  • not_Queennot_Queen Administrator, Dev, Community Manager Posts: 906

    @Weederick Our Designer is now Out of Office but I would assume you can. Let me just confirm it tomorrow. :)

  • WeederickWeederick Member Posts: 531

    @not_Queen said:
    @Weederick Our Designer is now Out of Office but I would assume you can. Let me just confirm it tomorrow. :)

    Okay, no hurries. Thanks for the clarifications, the DS changes sound great. :)

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 4,490

    So basically regarding NOED, if the endgame were to become more fair to the killer so if they have a chance to kill people, would it be nerfed?

  • not_Queennot_Queen Administrator, Dev, Community Manager Posts: 906

    @Poweas NOED isn't currently looked at. I can ask Designers what the plan is for when the Endgame rework comes but AFAIK it wouldn't be touched.

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 4,490

    @not_Queen said:
    @Poweas NOED isn't currently looked at. I can ask Designers what the plan is for when the Endgame rework comes but AFAIK it wouldn't be touched.

    Thanks!

  • RuneStarrRuneStarr Member Posts: 828
    This answered every dang question I had. Thanks! ^_^ Can't wait to see it in action Soon™️
  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 1,811
    edited February 21

    I hope Dying Light gets looked into because we already have a hard enough time with getting it activated and now it can be deactivated. This perk promotes tunneling and that's the only way to get use out of it and this DS change makes this perk even harder to use. Changing Dying Light to not have a tunneling aspect would make this perk easier to use.

    Overall I'm excited :) I'm leveling up Laurie now

  • PhantomMask20763PhantomMask20763 Member Posts: 4,402
    not_Queen said:

    @PhantomMask20763 Not a non intended nerf. We knew going in what it was going to change for the other Obsession perks and we decided to go ahead with that change.

    Interesting, thanks for the reply. If you guys think Dying Light is fine I'll take your word on it, I ain't no dev lol :)  
  • not_Queennot_Queen Administrator, Dev, Community Manager Posts: 906

    We are always open to feedback @PhantomMask20763 ! When you are able to try it out don't hesitate to tell us what you think!

  • PhantomMask20763PhantomMask20763 Member Posts: 4,402
    not_Queen said:

    We are always open to feedback @PhantomMask20763 ! When you are able to try it out don't hesitate to tell us what you think!

    I will! :)
  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 1,811

    If you guys do think about changing Dying Light I've got a suggestion. When the active Obsession is hurt all Survivors get a % debuff, when that Obsession is hooked the debuff gets bigger, when the Obsession is unhooked or healed the debuff gets smaller, when the active Obsession dies the debuff gets to it's current full power. When the Obsession switches to someone else their health state determines what the current % of the debuff is. Kind of like Thana but focused on the Obsession.

  • Lux1Lux1 Member Posts: 1
    Horrible change. You are losing your survivor fanbase. Once again you are making something complicated that doesn't need to be. Leave DS alone. It didn't need to be nerfed and your "solution" doesn't address any problems except pan to whining killers. It creates more problems than it solves. STOP. RUINING. YOUR. DAMN. GAME. 
  • ahnmiyoahnmiyo Member Posts: 2
    edited February 21

    Dying Light is the only perk I was really concerned with on this list, and I am deeply saddened to see that the perk I love most has gotten even more difficult to use. :/ If the obsession can change 3 times, then there is a potential (likelihood*) that I will need to find and kill the obsession 4 times in a match which is.. pointless. If I can accomplish that, then I have already completely won. (This made doubly more difficult by the anti-tunneling quality of the new DS, something which I think is really clever and helpful - but not in a perk that requires identifying and eliminating the obsession for a permanent effect.)

    The whole feeling behind dying light was the fading hope of seeing the icon appear, the "all has been lost" feeling, knowing most survivors weren't getting out. The fact of the perk being permanent seemed like the whole point of it? I would love for this to be reverted, as in "dying light is unaffected; upon an obsession being killed, the debuff is applied, permanently". Alternatively, dying light's percentage could be dramatically increased, or decreased but stack (meaning a cumulative effect for how many obsessions had been killed).

    While I've read above that this wasn't a "non intended nerf", the current situation leaves dying light in a horrible, unreasonably challenging and inconsistent state. This has long been my favorite perk - to me, one of the most interesting killer perks, by far, one which changes how the game plays at a fundamental level - and is now feeling like an empty perk slot. I really, truly hope that your team will reconsider and not make this interesting perk (dying light) into a very average or underwhelming one.

  • redsopine01redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,233
    I got a question though if it can change targets what's to stop people saving it to end game just for a free escape and what about borrowed time how would that interact with this perk change what's to stop over alteristic teams running both by and ds knowing they can get 30 seconds free and even if they go down they can just get off your shoulder with ds or like adrenaline and deliverance these two perks counteract each other meaning if you have borrowed time active would desicive be inactive or would not being the obsession mean borrowed time won't activate?
  • CornChipCornChip Member Posts: 434

    Are there more survivor nerfs coming?

  • Kawaii_HagKawaii_Hag Member Posts: 9

    I actually think this is an okay change as like a mori it requires being hooked first. I also think the killer stun being only 3 seconds is fair. However is there any chance of the Dev team looking at the amount of time to use DS and possibly extending it? To something like 55/65/75 seconds maybe? Or even making it so that the timer doesn't go down while you are on the ground? I appreciate the change to counter dribbling but its odd that you can still completely lose the chance to use a perk if the killer decides to "slug" you. Which can happen even when you aren't marked as the obsession.

    I also agree with above concerns about what this would do to Dying Light.

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688

    I actually think this is an okay change as like a mori it requires being hooked first. I also think the killer stun being only 3 seconds is fair. However is there any chance of the Dev team looking at the amount of time to use DS and possibly extending it? To something like 55/65/75 seconds maybe? Or even making it so that the timer doesn't go down while you are on the ground? I appreciate the change to counter dribbling but its odd that you can still completely lose the chance to use a perk if the killer decides to "slug" you. Which can happen even when you aren't marked as the obsession.

    I also agree with above concerns about what this would do to Dying Light.

    I don't see the issue with slugging?

    The game can be quite hard and the killer needs pressure. If they see that survivor cross their oath they have a right to slow them down to ease the gen pressure.

    This still stops the survivor from taking a second hook. Someone can come along and heal them up. They got slowed down so the killer is happy, the survivor didn't get hooked so the survivor is happy.

    I think the perk would be overpowered if the timer didn't reset.

    Also if you haven't used it by 60 seconds then you aren't being tunneled. Tunneling takes place by like 10-30 seconds usually.
  • TarveshTarvesh Member Posts: 390
    edited February 22

    Dying Light

    • The active Obsession has the altruistic action speed bonus while they are alive.
    • If the active Obsession is killed, Dying Light's de-buff is applied to all remaining survivors.
    • If, at some point in the trial, another player becomes the Obsession, Dying Lights de-buff will be removed as the Obsession is considered alive again.
    So you hard nerfed Dying Light And basically every other obsession based killer perk in the game. Good to know.
    Post edited by Tarvesh on
  • ahnmiyoahnmiyo Member Posts: 2
    edited February 22

    I actually reflected a little bit further with someone's help/commentary and realised that killers do have tangible counters that can remove DS entirely from the match, thus allowing Dying Light to persist just as before -- "don't tunnel" being a primary one, and slugging being another. This is seeming more reasonable now.

    I think part of my brain was just not getting that because DS has previously been mostly uncounterable, so I keep getting flashbacks of Lauries and Kates having undeserved second chances that I could do nothing about lol

  • not_Queennot_Queen Administrator, Dev, Community Manager Posts: 906

    @Lux1 We explained in the post why we went with these changes and what issues we were aiming to tackle with them. Live games goes through cycles and the meta is always shifting. DS was part of the main meta for a long time. These changes will hopefully initiate a shift in the meta. It isn't made to ''nerf survivors'' but to make the game healthier for all players.

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    edited February 22
    CornChip said:

    Are there more survivor nerfs coming?

    This has every possibility to end up a lot stronger for survivors, much stronger.

    Now they can't be tunneled. That will change low rank dramatically.

    As for high rank, if you get a strong Billy for example who is on a roll, flying around the map and hooking every 20 seconds, this is going to introduce some problems.

    But at the same time, it's going to do the opposite in some games. No more watching the obsession loop the killer for 5 gens in low rank.

    So it's a weird change which I feel will drastically change the way the game plays out and I feel it will be more popular than current DS.
  • JoyfulLeaderJoyfulLeader Member Posts: 534

    @Lux1 said:
    Horrible change. You are losing your survivor fanbase. Once again you are making something complicated that doesn't need to be. Leave DS alone. It didn't need to be nerfed and your "solution" doesn't address any problems except pan to whining killers. It creates more problems than it solves. STOP. RUINING. YOUR. DAMN. GAME. 

    Looks like your precious perk can't save you now XD

  • HavelmomDaS1HavelmomDaS1 Member Posts: 1,948
    not_Queen said:

    @PhantomMask20763 Not a non intended nerf. We knew going in what it was going to change for the other Obsession perks and we decided to go ahead with that change.

    Do you know what the motivation was to create "dynamic obsessions"?
  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 4,188

    As someone that actually uses Dying Light (albeit when I'm just really pissed off at survivors), I'm a bit torn on how it works now.

    On the one hand, it could potentially make it worthless, since DL requires you to tunnel an obsession and by this point for most killers there are only 2 gens left to do. You can stall the game at this point OR survivors could actually do the gens if they play it right (or split the map either way). However now, if the status changes you lost all that and now have to tunnel this player again. If you have to do that more than once you lost the game.

    On the other hand, I could see the desire for a counter to Dying Light since it is a very devastating perk (plus it requires you to tunnel someone). If someone else decides to DS you then they become the obsession, which if you have a mori means that you don't have to find the obsession you just need to find someone with DS. They hit you with DS, become the obsession, they have already been hooked once, now you just down them and mori to proc DL. I guess you could avoid the next DS by just not tunneling anyone else off first hook, it just seems like something that could be abused to make the perk worthless.

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