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Upcoming DS changes - Q&A

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Comments

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 5,768

    Also question @not_Queen ...

    1) If a killer uses an obsession perk does it still pick someone as an obsession at the start of the trial?
    2) If a survivor uses OOO/SS will they by chosen as an obsession at the start of a trial?

  • KenshinKenshin Member Posts: 828

    as long as the 3 second stun stays and enduring works against it its fine. finally a counter to it now. just hope they dont increase the time to 4 seconds again.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 6,067
    edited February 22

    Hello, @not_Queen I have a concern as well as some solutions to these issues!

    Slugging to wait out the DS timer:
    This can be a problem since the core of the perk is to prevent the consequence of someone's actions. However, slugging removes this concept since you can easily wait out the timer in specific scenarios.

    Scenario: Let's assume I went after the unhooked survivor and he took me 30ish seconds to down. Now, all I have to do is wait another 30 seconds or more time to be safe to avoid DS.

    Solution: Have the timer pause or slow down while in dying state to prevent slugging and to force the killer to pick the survivor up. Yes, I understand that you do not know what survivor will have DS (since they won't be the obsession until after use) but assuming how survivors will farm someone directly in front of you (especially SWF) should lead to a conclusion that the unhooked survivor has DS.

    Merci! :)
  • IhatelifeIhatelife Member Posts: 3,488

    I wanted to ask an one more question.
    Is the new DS also triggers the obsession mechanic at the start of the trial or only if you hit the skill check?

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 6,067
    Ihatelife said:

    I wanted to ask an one more question.
    Is the new DS also triggers the obsession mechanic at the start of the trial or only if you hit the skill check?

    I can answer,

    After you successfully stun the killer.
  • IhatelifeIhatelife Member Posts: 3,488

    @Nickenzie said:
    Ihatelife said:

    I wanted to ask an one more question.

    Is the new DS also triggers the obsession mechanic at the start of the trial or only if you hit the skill check?

    I can answer,

    After you successfully stun the killer.

    So this is actually a buff to DS. 'Cause killers will no longer get informed that you run this perk. Thanks!

  • Dwight_ConfusionDwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,576

    The DS changes seem to be good.

    This is an improvement over what currently was going on.

    Just as long as killer obsession perks aren't messed with sure...

    So this is a slight nerf to all killer obsession perks as we have to keep track more of who is the new obsession if it changes.

    Overall, this change works. I like it.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 6,067
    Ihatelife said:

    @Nickenzie said:
    Ihatelife said:

    I wanted to ask an one more question.

    Is the new DS also triggers the obsession mechanic at the start of the trial or only if you hit the skill check?

    I can answer,

    After you successfully stun the killer.

    So this is actually a buff to DS. 'Cause killers will no longer get informed that you run this perk. Thanks!

    Well it depends on your play style as a killer. I usually go after the unhooked survivor to punish benevolence points on the unhooker, then I'll chase down the unhooker while I slug the unhooked survivor anyways.

    The unhooked survivor gets another chance while the unhooker gets punished benevolence with a hook. However, if I feel like this will lose me the game, I'll ignore this random rule I have and re-hook the unhooked survivor. I don't like doing this but sometimes you have no choice! :(
  • SnakeSound222SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 1,798
    edited February 22

    Seems like a good rework. I have some questions about it though.

    1. Will Doctor's Madness still affect the DS skill check and make it appear in a random place? If not, then why?
    2. What will a DS skill check affected by Unnerving Presence look like post-rework?
    3. Will DS activate when the Survivor is grabbed (like from the Hatch, unhooking, or vaulting)? I can easily see hook rushing with multiple Survivors on the hook becoming a problem for the Killer.
  • IhatelifeIhatelife Member Posts: 3,488
    edited February 22
    Nickenzie said:
    Ihatelife said:

    @Nickenzie said:
    Ihatelife said:

    I wanted to ask an one more question.

    Is the new DS also triggers the obsession mechanic at the start of the trial or only if you hit the skill check?

    I can answer,

    After you successfully stun the killer.

    So this is actually a buff to DS. 'Cause killers will no longer get informed that you run this perk. Thanks!

    Well it depends on your play style as a killer. I usually go after the unhooked survivor to punish benevolence points on the unhooker, then I'll chase down the unhooker while I slug the unhooked survivor anyways.

    The unhooked survivor gets another chance while the unhooker gets punished benevolence with a hook. However, if I feel like this will lose me the game, I'll ignore this random rule I have and re-hook the unhooked survivor. I don't like doing this but sometimes you have no choice! :(
    Hmm my play style is more focused on map pressure. So once survivor get hooked, I'm chasing another one, and the third survivor is gonna get rescue the first one. So basically one survivor is repairing gen. Of course it depends if my plans goes well.
    Post edited by Ihatelife on
  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 5,768

    @not_Queen said:
    Rancor: The active Obsession will be revealed for 5/4/3 seconds when a generator is completed.

    You mean the obsession will see the killers aura for 5/4/3 seconds right?

    Also Rancor reveals the location of all survivors via notification not just non-obsessions.

  • George_SorosGeorge_Soros Member Posts: 2,270
    @ahnmiyo @The_crusader @thesuicidefox at first I also worried this would be a considerable nerf to Dying Light and Remember Me. But it's quite preventable, if you slug someone who has just been unhooked, or go after the rescuer the first place. We will see how the new DS works out, but unless they implement the change some people suggest (stopping the 60 sec timer while downed), it can be circumvented with relative ease.
    That's what I will do anyway whenever I'm running a DL or RM build.
  • BACKSTABBERBACKSTABBER Member Posts: 1,809

    @not_Queen said:
    So we know that a lot of you had tons of questions about the upcoming DS changes.
    So here we go!

    Can a player use DS more than 1 time per match?

    No.

    Do you lose the chance to use DS if you aren't using it on the first carry?

    No you do not, the perk is disabled only when you miss or succeed the DS skillcheck.

    Does the timer continues when in dying state / being healed?

    Yes. The timer acts like the timer from Make your Choice or We'll Make it for example.

    When are these changes coming?

    These changes will be implemented in the next update. They will be available in the next Player Test Build as well.

    Why shorten the killer stun?

    We will be looking closely at feedback and interactions from the PTB to decide if we need to adjust the stun time.

    DS change happened, how about NOED changes?

    We aren't planning to change NOED at the moment. We consider that NOED has multiple gameplay counters and is currently in a good place. We do not think of NOED as an equivalent to DS.

    How does the DS changes affect the other Obsession perks?

    • Increases your chance to become the obsession.  
    • The Killer can only be Obsessed with one survivor at a time. 

    Survivor Perks

    Decisive Strike

    • Transfers the Obsession status to the Decisive Strike user when successfully triggered during a trial.

    Sole Survivor

    • No Change

    Object of Obsession

    • Only the active Obsession has the ability to see the killer at a maximum range of 56/64/72 meters.

    Killer Perks

    Save the Best for Last

    • No matter the active Obsession, if a killer with Save the Best for Last hits a survivor who is the obsession they will lose 4/3/2 tokens.
    • The player who is no longer the obsession will be treated as a non-obsession, adding a 5% decreased successful attack cool down per hit.
    • The killer doesn't lose his tokens when the Obsession status is transferred to another survivor unless he hits the active Obsession.

    Play With Your Food

    • No matter who has been the Obsession, if a killer with Play With Your Food chases and lets the active Obsession escape, they will gain a movement speed token until their next offensive action.
    • The player who is no longer the Obsession will be treated as a non-obsession, meaning that activating a chase with a non-obsession and losing the chase will not grant the killer a PWYF token.

    Dying Light

    • The active Obsession has the altruistic action speed bonus while they are alive.
    • If the active Obsession is killed, Dying Light's de-buff is applied to all remaining survivors.
    • If, at some point in the trial, another player becomes the Obsession, Dying Lights de-buff will be removed as the Obsession is considered alive again.

    Remember Me

    • No matter the active Obsession, hitting the Obsession will add +5 seconds of Exit Gate opening time up to a maximum of 20/25/30 additional seconds.
    • All additional seconds are kept when the Obsession is killed, and if the active Obsession changes.
    • The active Obsession always ignore the extra door opening times. They are not affected by Remember Me.

    Rancor

    • The active Obsession will be revealed for 5/4/3 seconds when a generator is completed.
    • The non-Obsessions, even one that was recently the Obsession, will have their locations revealed for 3 seconds after a generator is completed.
    • Once all generators have been completed, the active Obsession will be exposed and can be killed. This is true for any active Obsession which means that the Rancor mori can potentially be used up to 4 times.

    Killer Add-ons

    Judith's Journal
    Stalking the active Obsession grants more stalks points per second.

    Black Box
    Only active at the start of the match. Will not reactivate when the Obsession changes.

    the only remaining question unsolved is "in the next Player Test Build as well", so when?

    inb4 please avoid "Soon", not replying or not replying other than a date/times Thanks~~

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,120

    The DS changes seem to be fine but I don't like how it nerfs some of the already weak Obsession perks for Killers.

    I guess that's the sacrifice we have to make for that much needed DS nerf.

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,958

    @PiiFree said:
    The DS changes seem to be fine but I don't like how it nerfs some of the already weak Obsession perks for Killers.

    I guess that's the sacrifice we have to make for that much needed DS nerf.

    The only one that really gets hit hard is dying light. Remember Me is somewhat nerfed in the sense that if you killed the obsession, and new one could be made and they could open gates fast. On the other hand, having obsessions change mid game could also lead to gaining more stacks. The other killer perks are neutral with Rancor being a buff. But let's be honest here, all the obsession perks are rarely played as they are inherently flawed.

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,120
    edited February 22

    @Dreamnomad said:

    @PiiFree said:
    The DS changes seem to be fine but I don't like how it nerfs some of the already weak Obsession perks for Killers.

    I guess that's the sacrifice we have to make for that much needed DS nerf.

    The only one that really gets hit hard is dying light. Remember Me is somewhat nerfed in the sense that if you killed the obsession, and new one could be made and they could open gates fast. On the other hand, having obsessions change mid game could also lead to gaining more stacks. The other killer perks are neutral with Rancor being a buff. But let's be honest here, all the obsession perks are rarely played as they are inherently flawed.

    True, I just don't understand why it has to have impact on Obsession.

    What if DS was just a typical non-Obsession perk that gives you a 2nd chance once per match if you happen to get farmed or tunneled? That whole "active Obsession" thing is BS, it just makes things unnecessarily complicated imo.

  • CymerCymer Member Posts: 896
    Nickenzie said:

    Hello, @not_Queen I have a concern as well as some solutions to these issues!

    Slugging to wait out the DS timer:
    This can be a problem since the core of the perk is to prevent the consequence of someone's actions. However, slugging removes this concept since you can easily wait out the timer in specific scenarios.

    Scenario: Let's assume I went after the unhooked survivor and he took me 30ish seconds to down. Now, all I have to do is wait another 30 seconds or more time to be safe to avoid DS.

    Solution: Have the timer pause or slow down while in dying state to prevent slugging and to force the killer to pick the survivor up. Yes, I understand that you do not know what survivor will have DS (since they won't be the obsession until after use) but assuming how survivors will farm someone directly in front of you (especially SWF) should lead to a conclusion that the unhooked survivor has DS.

    Merci! :)
    If you are concerned about slugging take unbreakable, no Mither ect.

    There are existing ingame ways around it, use the tools given by the devs.


  • CymerCymer Member Posts: 896
    I love the new DS!

    First hook for preserving momentum: check
    Tunneling protection: check
    Rancor that DS: check check check check
    Interesting new obsession mechanic: check

    With this amazing changes not only are the killers allowed to stack up BBQ the survivors get a chance to unhook and the injured unhook gets a tunneling protection.

    If you are afraid of being slugged No Mither and Unbreakable are a thing!

    It encourages team play and a fairer focus from the killer.

    Thank you devs!
  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,958

    @PiiFree said:

    @Dreamnomad said:

    @PiiFree said:
    The DS changes seem to be fine but I don't like how it nerfs some of the already weak Obsession perks for Killers.

    I guess that's the sacrifice we have to make for that much needed DS nerf.

    The only one that really gets hit hard is dying light. Remember Me is somewhat nerfed in the sense that if you killed the obsession, and new one could be made and they could open gates fast. On the other hand, having obsessions change mid game could also lead to gaining more stacks. The other killer perks are neutral with Rancor being a buff. But let's be honest here, all the obsession perks are rarely played as they are inherently flawed.

    True, I just don't understand why it has to have impact on Obsession.

    What if DS was just a typical non-Obsession perk that gives you a 2nd chance once per match if you happen to get farmed or tunneled? That whole "active Obsession" thing is BS, it just makes things unnecessarily complicated imo.

    I don't disagree. The actual impact is pretty minor in the large scheme of things though. It could lead to some pretty interesting games though. I might actually run Rancor the first week of the change just for a chance at the multi mori Rancor.

  • TheHoodiedOneTheHoodiedOne Member Posts: 7,660

    What is the amount in seconds for each enduring rank when affected by new ds?

    As in tier 1, 2, 3 enduring V new DS?

  • BongbingbingBongbingbing Member Posts: 1,423

    Thank you for the answers! Very Helpful.
    I really like the new DS. It's still strong, but at least now It's got somewhat of a counter with enduring. I don't think you should consider increasing the stun time, I think it's fine where it is. There needs to be some form of counter otherwise It's going to be a sure perk for everyone with no risk of a counter like it was before.

    The old DS was a free reset button for the survivors at the expense of the killer for doing their objective, The new one helps to prevent tunneling from the hook giving you a full minute which in this game is a very long time to use DS if you get downed after being hooked. Finally it feels somewhat balanced with having to be unhooked or unhooking yourself first but don't get me wrong, It's still a pain for killers.
    If the Killer gets you of the hook he wont know if you have DS and if you do you still get that Reset button and a second chance, Not to mention all survivors in the trial now have the same level of DS so if the killer goes for an injured survivor over a healthy one one minute from them being unhooked it's a huge time waste and loss of momentum.

    If all survivors run the new DS, without slugging most of the 14 killers are going to have a very hard time against a SWF team with that perk, At least with enduring they can minimize this even tho that wastes another killers perk slot along with others like Hex: Ruin that are a Necessity. Giving a higher stun time to make enduring less of a counter would be a bad idea in my opinion. With how much a single DS never mind 4, can crush a killers momentum there needs to be a perk like enduring to help make it bearable.

  • NyzechuNyzechu Member Posts: 13

    I have a suggestion for Mori changes, can we change Moris to be only possible on 3rd hook? So this way Killer still gets the mori animation and instead of going for that last hook he gets the kill AND survivors get a chance to use their DS to get away in case of a tunnel.

    With NOED maybe address it where it has a timer instead of constant insta down.
    OR just keep the speed but take the instadown maybe?

    I dislike NOED too because it rewards Killers for not optimizing their map pressure and chases. However I get why it exists for slower killers! ♥

    Thank you for this change, it was long overdue.

  • twdgamenewstwdgamenews Member Posts: 31

    Nerf survivors more...nerf them more. Pallets, sprint and more. It makes me sad. All good perks got nerf. It's normal that playing as survivor you use the best perks to survive. If not ds, old sprint then what? a [BAD WORD] deja vu? come on guys..You should focus on nerfing perks like rancor. In my opinion you should be able to use it when you will hook survivor at least one time. Just like with mori you have to hook survivor and that should be also with rancor because it's a mori. That would be fair because there is no counter to it. If killer have that perk you can't just do nothing. Second thing what about nurse? If you think that she shouldn't be nerfed then I guess you have never been on first rank and never played against a good nurse. In my opinion she should get longer stun after blink or idk. If you nerf rancor and nurse I would be happy. Two things that bother me the most.

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    Nyzechu said:

    I have a suggestion for Mori changes, can we change Moris to be only possible on 3rd hook? So this way Killer still gets the mori animation and instead of going for that last hook he gets the kill AND survivors get a chance to use their DS to get away in case of a tunnel.

    With NOED maybe address it where it has a timer instead of constant insta down.
    OR just keep the speed but take the instadown maybe?

    I dislike NOED too because it rewards Killers for not optimizing their map pressure and chases. However I get why it exists for slower killers! ♥

    Thank you for this change, it was long overdue.


    Wow it's the real Nyzechu!

    I do agree that moris are OP vs standard survviors, but when you get a 4 man swf on comms with instaheals, the best toolboxes etc you kind of need the moris to balance it out imo.

    Likewise survivors toys are OP vs standard killers but become much more balanced when its a killer with an ebony mori and Iri heads or 5 blinks.
  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    Sucks that dying light will be a killer perk that helps the survivors......

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @Kenshin said:
    as long as the 3 second stun stays and enduring works against it its fine. finally a counter to it now. just hope they dont increase the time to 4 seconds again.

    If they increase the stun time back to the value we currently have, then Im done playing killer tbh :wink:

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    I realized that a good thing about this is it gives more choice to the killer.

    Before the survivor dictated where they went down, unless the killer purposefully waited. They could go down next to a huge loop for example, D-strike, then use the loop to extend the chase. This is why Enduring wasn't always the answer.

    With the new DS you can carry them further because there's no fear of the 35%, and choose to hook then far away from a nasty loop like say the abbatoir window. Then if you do happen to take a DS it makes it harder for the survvior to exploit that. Especially if you have Enduring.
  • BACKSTABBERBACKSTABBER Member Posts: 1,809
    edited February 22
    DS has no longer difficult skill check, so survs pretty much gonna successfully hit the fuk  outta the killers
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