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Stupidly fast generators

2

Comments

  • pungent_stenchpungent_stench Member Posts: 131
    edited March 2019

    ..

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    Sure, a single survivor can do a single gen in 80 seconds and that doesnt account for toolboxes and great skillchecks.

    With the new prove thyself they can even work together more efficiently

  • iceman2kxiceman2kx Member Posts: 462

    You are linking Marth's depip squad and I am very familiar with it. This is kind of a poor example to use if you are debating gen completion rate because they are a coordinated SWF group perk'd up with the intention of rushing gens. If I was a dev and I saw this, I would view this as an extreme and unlikely scenario. Why not just use an average killer's clip going against a decent group of solo survivors and the first 3 gens being completed in like 2 minutes?

    I think people are misunderstanding my post. Even with Marth's depip squad, guess why the gens weren't completed? Because they were not pressured enough. This is the way to game is designed and it's not going to change until it is redesigned.

    This instead, should open a new can of worms. Like, why don't they add more things for survivors to do. Or buff weaker killers so they have greater map pressure? I've said it time and time again, people play Billy and Nurse because they are the only two killers with decent mobility hence greater map pressure.

  • Wolf74Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @iceman2kx

    "If they are getting completed that fast, you aren't pressuring the survivors enough. Doing gens is literally their only objective, what are you doing to stop it? "

    You obviously do not get that. It is a flaw at the core of the game. The Devs never calculated the times right. They expected the survivor to play stealthy and trying to avoid the killer and bunching up to help each other. But that's not the way good survivor play. They play EFFICIENT. And the whole chase calculation is just completely off. It is a major misscalculation that puts killer at a severe disadvantage against any decent team and they do not have to be SWF, they just need to follow some simple gen rush rules and pick the right perks and can repeat that without any trouble.

    Take a look at my calculations and tell me what the killer should do.

    Most killer can't apply any more pressure than chasing anyone and with SELF CARE around just switching targets and spreading out the damage isn't working at all.

    With ~35 sec per hit and SC needing 32 sec it doesn't help the killer in any way to switch targets and drop chases.

    The killer needs survivor to make bad decisions.

    If both sides play on the same skilllevel, the killer will lose with 1K max.

    To get more the killer has to be waaaaay better than the survivor.

    Sometimes I admit that it helps to switch targets, if you can spot a weak runner that you can take advantage off... but exactly that the Devs try to take away by artifically protect those easy kills from getting "tunneled".

  • EninyaEninya Member Posts: 976

    I always said Ruin needs to be reworked into being baseline--not a flimsy hex perk--and actually affect solo repairs in a significant way, rather than partnered repairs.

  • EntityDispleasedEntityDispleased Member Posts: 1,449

    Tunnelling and slugging is your only chance out of this. If the survivors are going to put up a tough challenge, you do the same.

  • Wolf74Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @EntityDispleased

    And here comes the issue… the Devs jump in to protect the survivor from killer playing smart by adding ingame mechanics to give them an edge and force killer to play stupid (free exhaustion relief, invu frames, BT, DS).

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 2,845


    You are playing solo. One of your teammates may or may not be being chased. What are you doing?

    Me, playing solo que, I'm on a gen holding M1. Majority of the time the other three are doing the same. It's not just a SWF concept.

  • MhhBurgersMhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,776


    Ruin baseline would [BAD WORD] 90% of the survivor playerbase who cannot deal with ruin in the first place because they just play this game casually.

    The whole skillcheck crap on gens needs looking at, a very good survivor shouldn't be doing a gen up to 12% faster than a normal survivor just b hitting great skillchecks.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    Hmmn same tired old Depip level 1 yr old videos proving absolutely nothing because the games vastly different. Also you're implying that every game is a 4 man swf swat team yet survival rate is below 50% in red ranks.

    Do I really need to list the massive wall of changes that's happened since that video or are you finally going to stop trolling with that video.

    If you let all 5 gens pop and didn't get anyone sacrificed YOU FAILED AS A KILLER, bottom line. No if's and's or but's. When you 4k that means the survivors failed no if's and's or but's.

    The fact you can still only use Marth's video from so long ago or Tru's where he goes perkless and plays horribly shows you've got no argument.

  • MhhBurgersMhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,776
    edited March 2019

    LUL 1 year old? look at the date https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOT7aLJ3cYw nothing has changed in the last 3 months.


    The game fundamentally hasn't changed, survivors can still loop easily because devs didnt fix the hitboxes (and probably never will)


    You cannot stop all 5 gens from being popped if the survivors really play only to escape and to not have fun unless you play Nurse/Billy, that's just a simple fact. You don't have enough time.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member, Trusted Posts: 13,463

    I’m honestly think of switching my main to full slug billy.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,413

    I rarely see the true "gen-rush". SWF with engineer tool boxes, BNP, etc. 3 Gens are done before I set the second trap. 4th is done by the time I see someone, fifth is done by first hook. Just became an end-game match.

    Those happen, but less than 10% of the time. Most of the time, they don't get gens done that fast. Are gens fast, yes, but what is the counterbalance if we slow them down? Already the survival rate is below 40%. How low does it have to go?

  • MhhBurgersMhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,776

    This is why we need nerfs and mechanics that affect optimal survivors too or even more than regular survivors. For instance optimal survivors don't give a [BAD WORD] about RUIN or stuff like overcharge or hitting their DS etc.

    The answer wouldn't be to make these things harder but to rework them so that they affect everybody the same.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,413

    Good point. Not sure how they would pull it off though. Average survivor is nothing like the optimal ones.

  • MhhBurgersMhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,776

    Start by giving excellent skillchecks only more points.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    So you didn't link the same year old video big deal and good grief stop lying that nothing's changed. I guess that last patch changes have never happened or did you conveniently ignore that again because it shoots your argument down again.

    Using a top 1% pro player as a reference point just shows that yet again you have no real argument.

    So let's see here since the Dec 18, 2018 patch

    2 bug fix patches with some help for both sides.

    Lunar Event patch to help killers.

    Red rank survival is below 50%

    Patch 2.50 on Jan 22, 2019


    Wow would you imagine that there's lots of changes in that patch that helped killers, but yep nothings changed in the last 3 months. That includes you using a pro player for your biased agenda as if that happen in every match.


    Oh and I could post all the video of top tier killers dominating but then you'd just try and troll like always and say the survivor were potatoes. It can never be that the killer is good except when it suits your argument.


    You'll probably go back to using the Tru perk roulette challenge videos where he plays poorly as an excuse to say survivors are op just like last time. But just like last time people will call you out for it and you'll try and defend him for playing bad.

  • MhhBurgersMhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,776
    edited March 2019

    First of all I think true is a mechanically good player but terrible if you want to become better as he has no clue about gameplay and takes ages to understand anything in this game to the point where I'm wondering if he's actually playing himself. The guy is constantly bragging about getting very good survivors when he has the same matchmaking like any of us, even calls survivors good who don't manage to even do 3 gens and get [BAD WORD] over by the easiest mindgames.

    The only DbD streamers that I'll watch are Zubat, Noob3, Monto and Marth with a bit of Senzuduck and Runningman sprinkled in.

    Second: Marth is an above average survivor but nowhere near 1%, it doesn't matter if it doesn't happen often, it shows that there's something fundamentally wrong with the game. (Mainly being hitboxes that enable survivors to loop like this in the first place)

    You mentioned the patch that literally gave survivors medium vaults instead of only either slow or fastvaults, the biggest buff in this patch is removing the infos that survivors got when they died which very good survivors don't care about in the first place.

    The only thing that patch notably did was improve hookspawns to basically indirectly nerf DS.

    Almost nothing in that patch made a huge difference for killers and who gives a [BAD WORD] about the lunar event fix in terms of balance.


    Know when the game would take a DRASTIC turn? If they finally fixed the hitboxes so the skillgap between very good survivors and good survivors gets lowered. A hitbox fix that basically fixes looping as we know it right now would not influence like 90% of the playerbase but make a ton of killers more viable.

    In return they could give survivors way more ways to juke the killers, I'd be absolutely fine with that.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @MhhBurgers I think with Marth is what makes him so good is he's got a complete understanding of the game in it's entirety. Now combine that with having played killer so much he can play survivor more optimally than most.


    That's the point I'm trying to make when you use him as an example, he's still in the top 1% of players worldwide just because his knowledge and experience is so vast. Tru is good but he sometimes gets full of himself.


    The hitbox change I agree would be nice and make killers much more even across the board. That way nurse/Billy/Spirit wouldn't be such a meta (Spirit main btw so I'm biased). I do love playing Trapper and Myers and Amanda but it's not as satisfying.


    The lunar event was only included as a reference point and the only real patch was the Jan one the rest were minor. The Legion patch we won't even discuss because Legion and the new engine update.


    The new Spies and surveillance updates along with the Pig changes were very welcome and I look forward to Freddy's remake. I just don't like the whole Fire and Forget missile type thing.


    The new killer looks really interesting and she's got some really unique things she can do as some people I sometimes play with discovered. If people are crouching behind things you just change your aim ala Artillery ( who remembers that old game). You can down people with her empowered ability even behind los blockers.

  • Wolf74Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @MhhBurgers

    "This is why we need nerfs and mechanics that affect optimal survivors too or even more than regular survivors. For instance optimal survivors don't give a [BAD WORD] about RUIN or stuff like overcharge or hitting their DS etc.

    The answer wouldn't be to make these things harder but to rework them so that they affect everybody the same."

    Some people don't get that concept. ;)

    Maybe this video can help some people.

  • MhhBurgersMhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,776

    I agree with most of your points but you still can't say that the game substantially changed from the video I posted.


    Most killers still don't run spies from the shadows, I sometimes do but in many games it feels really pointless still.

    I have not seen many killers use surveillance at all. I think the perk is very nice on Legion because you can tell if the deep wounded survivor went back to tap the gen so you know approximately where he is and can down him.

    I still don't see how the Lunar event change did anything for killers other than give them the option to earn cosmetics in a more realistic time. The only thing that event did in terms of killer power was make survivors glow and stand out more.

    The new killer gets crushed by stealth and her mechanics feel unworthy of a plague-themed character. Breaking through the plague is just a minor inconvenience reminiscent of Mending against a legion with the difference that against a legion you will have to heal up and take your time after a hook if you're unsure about getting hit again. They either need to make it MUCH easier to spread the plague or remove the heal from the fountains, then she'd be at a good and fun spot.

  • Adonisadon234Adonisadon234 Member Posts: 147

    did i just accidentaly caused a war on this thread?

  • Wolf74Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Adonisadon234

    It's just a hot topic since… forever…

    Because like I said, the calculations for chases in relation to gen time is wrong from the start.

    That's why killer feel kinda helpless against survivor that seriously want to escape instead of fooling around.

  • IamFranIamFran Member Posts: 365


    Why some of you still put survival rate below 50% as an argument?

    There are a lot of absurd and avoidable survivor deaths due being overaltruistic or to a lesser extent looking for the hatch with the gates open. The more higher the rank is more overaltruistic the people is.

  • EvelineEveline Member Posts: 2,340

    And don't forget cocky. Most won't leave when the gates open and some of them die. It happens during a game also, they either die early trying to bully the killer or dc.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    Because that's the official statistic for red ranks and don't forget NOED deaths, people killing themselves on hook because their teams getting wrecked. The killer hard camping at 5 gens so they get 1-2 kills. All the Legions out there exploiting for 3-4k and other reasons.

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