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Thoughts on NOED "rewarding bad play"

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  • DemonDaddyDemonDaddy Member Posts: 1,486

    Noed is a reward for killers only if survivors fail to complete their secondary objective. Killer has no say in the matter until gen 5 pops and they can then see/defend the totem. The reward itself is seeing the perk activate, the killer still needs to chase and down the survivors.

  • NathanExplosionNathanExplosion Member Posts: 337

    @Weederick

    Like it should be possible.


  • Dwight_ConfusionDwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,640

    There's a tryhard push to get it changed. They aren't going to change it. It's a good, strong perk.

    It isn't called "Survive by Daylight". The killer is more entitled to kill than you are to survive. Stop.

    The perk is fine as it is. There's nothing wrong with it. If you tryhard trash SWF are so good... cleanse 5 totems man. It's pretty simple. Lazy...



  • Wolf74Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    Can we please drop all those Noed debates?

    Even the Devs realized that Noed is balanced.

  • WeederickWeederick Member Posts: 920

    Its also possible to 4k in under a minute.

    Take responsibility for your games man. Its up to you what happens

  • NathanExplosionNathanExplosion Member Posts: 337
    edited March 2019

    @Weederick "Its also possible to 4k in under a minute."

    And Nurse can 4K without blinking, under certain circumstance.

    How is that an argument ?


  • Dwight_ConfusionDwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,640

    lmao

    Some of you are insane. NOED is fine the way it is. You talk as if it is active from the very beginning or something lol.


    Get a clue.


  • WeederickWeederick Member Posts: 920
  • NathanExplosionNathanExplosion Member Posts: 337

    @Weederick

    Then i think you shouldn't talk too much about balance if you don't see any problems with those statements.


  • WeederickWeederick Member Posts: 920

    Maybe you shouldnt talk about balance, if you only speak in two liners + pick one and assume things.

    I said that playing bad as killer and survivors finishing gens quickly is correlated more than it is separated. While you assume that i think genrush is okay. I think your original statement was bad.

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 2,672

    Noed does generally boost bad killers. Just as ds boosted bad survivors.

  • CornChipCornChip Member Posts: 540

    I agree.. except one of those perks got buffed, the other reworked(nerfed).

  • Wolf74Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @thrawn3054

    "Noed does generally boost bad killers. Just as ds boosted bad survivors."

    This statement is just plain WRONG.

    The killers objective is to KILL. Not protect gens.

    Survivor shoudl AVOID the killer, not "enjoy the chase".

    If Noed is triggering at all is entirely up to the survivor.

    If DS -either old or new- is triggering is … not the killers decision.

    The new DS only encourages bad plays and unsafe unhooks.

    While Noed only punishs lazy survivor.

  • douggie123douggie123 Member Posts: 756

    Noed is the counterpart to adrenaline. Deal with it and if you don't like it and you are actually a competent survivor take down totems.

  • ThirdSealOPplzNerfThirdSealOPplzNerf Member Posts: 302

    Keep in mind that the killer plays with only 3 perks the entire game until gates are but still can never activate if surviors aren't lazy and do totems. It has a counter and playing with 3 perks isn't an easy thing. It does not boost bad killers and endgame is already 1000% survivor sided the killer basically has nothing in game to help them in endgame.

  • Free_HugsFree_Hugs Member Posts: 298

    Ok. Lets look at this from the perspective of another game. Card games, they're fairly ubiquitous and hard to misunderstand. Now.

    To win in a cardgame, you generally need to get your opponent's life to total to 0. When your opponent's life total reaches 0, they lose and you win. Assuming they start at 30, if you were to deal 29 damage to your opponent's life total, they would have "96.6% lost" by your logic. Is this correct?

  • Free_HugsFree_Hugs Member Posts: 298

    All gens being completed is not a failure state because the killer does not, infact, fail if that comes to pass. Infact, the killer loses *nothing* if all gens are completed. The killer is not negativly impeded in anyway by all generators being completed, in comparison to a survivor being carried to a hook in which case they can both no longer complete their main objective and will immediately be removed from the game without intervention.

    Now, if NOED were to read "When a survivor would leave the trial, instead teleport them to a hook" then it would indeed be a failure state do-over, similar to DS.

  • MegsAreEvilMegsAreEvil Member Posts: 819
    edited March 2019

    Noed is just a free win for people being too stupid doing their objective properly and a punishment for survs who just did their only objective in a proper way. But killer Mains wouldnt ever admit that cause they only care for ez wins.

  • Free_HugsFree_Hugs Member Posts: 298

    Very well.

    Why do you consider your objective to be doing generators "I did all 5 gens, we're done now"

    Instead of escaping?

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 2,672

    I should point out I don't have a problem with noed. I find it annoying. But it is what it is. I don't use it because I feel like if it's come into play I've not done my job.

    @Wolf74 Noed Gives the killer extra kills they wouldn't have gotten. So it does boost bad killers. That's not to say good killers don't also use it. But bad killers are artificially boosted by it.

    @thirdsixteenth They are playing at a deficit. But how often have you encountered a really good killer using noed vs. a bad one?

  • DemonDaddyDemonDaddy Member Posts: 1,486

    If you say it boosts bad killers, even if its by a small margin, look for the totems and prevent it. Technically its lazy survivors boosting bad killers.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,983

    Remember. It doesn't reward bad play unless it makes the low skill option ALSO optimal compared to the high skill option:

    EX: Letting the 3rd survivor die to take the hatch is optimal compared to saving him and doing the last 3 gens with 2 people.

    and NOT when you are able to potentially recover from a bad position:

    EX: Getting hit and then later healing

    Most perks including NOED (and yes even DS. It has other problems) are in the second category since a Killer with NOED active is less likely to win than a Killer with 3 perks and gens still up.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    So if the survivor is playing with AD they're also only playing with 3 perks the entire game right? The killer can negate that perk from ever activating by sacrificing that survivor thereby increasing their odds of winning. (subjectively)


    Also not in reference to your post but in general: So because the survivor CAN finish the gens in under 4 minutes means they actually will? The same is true of killer a nurse if well played can end the game in under 2 minutes.


    That doesn't mean she will but on average which is more likely to happen, a good nurse 4king really quickly or good Huntress cough Umbara_Bug/Severenken etc.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    I don't consider NOED an EZ win other than the speed boost is kind broken on certain killers and if combined with the uncleanable totem spawns. Like I said before it's fine and if anything it only needs some qol tweaks


    I really need to save that stupid post.

  • WeederickWeederick Member Posts: 920

    I understand your examples very well, its just not very good examples, since dbd is more complex than a cardgame. Cardgames have a single objective, while dbd has different objectives for both sides.

    But continue your example of card games. If you have 1 life left, you lost 96% of the game, that is true. Given the state of the game, the opponent probably has the board while you have nothing left. You should probably lose next round in this circumstance.

    And now you're all smart " you just activated my trap card. I didnt lose. It was all planned to almost lose. I win now." 200iq. You still have to lose in the first place

    Know what good killers think of noed? Pretty useless most of the time. There is no lategame.

  • Free_HugsFree_Hugs Member Posts: 298

    Actually, weedrick, most would argue that if you *don't* end a cardgame at 1 health, you likely did not play optimally, because there is no gradient of win or lose, health is a resource. Utilizing all of your resources optimally, using that 29 health to soak damage so you can more effectively build your own board, is considered the optimal play.

    In a game you never win or lose by %. Winning and losing are binary states. Yes or no, did you or didn't you. A killer has not lost when noed comes into play, and the end game exists, or the game would go to the tally screen the instant the last gen popped.

    You can go to the "oh yeah, but *I* don't ever get to play the end game, so it isn't real" as much as you want to, but at this point you're just arguing emotion and feeling, rather than any tangible metric.

  • WeederickWeederick Member Posts: 920

    Dude, this isn't a cardgame.

    This is Dead by Daylight, where healthpoints from cardgames =/= generators in dbd. Sorry you lack the gamesense in dbd, even though you have one in cardgames.

    If your gameplan revolves around losing the majority of the game to turn it around with a perk. Then you are too reliant on this perk to turn games around for you.

  • CarpemortumCarpemortum Member Posts: 4,126
    edited March 2019

    So we can stop complaining about the no mither genrush builds now?

    If the game ends in 5 mins, but you were injured for most of it. That's losing most of the game to win the end, right? Since health states are objectives/your life.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    My issue with it is that it's often treated as a band-aid fix for weak killers (Freddy for instance). People often use it in higher ranks to help secure a hook or two, but you can usually work around it. Get the totem or sneak around while the killer is elsewhere. It's more like adrenaline, really, imo and while it sucks when it goes off, it's something they use to help the user if end game comes. It's just a different build, like an end game build. Survivors have end game builds, too. And it isn't like it'll always go off or will always be useful to the killer.

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