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The Legion Lost a lot of his "Fantasy", but a simple change could bring it back.

DoomsakiDoomsaki Member Posts: 103

This thread isn't about balance. It's about the "fantasy" and "feel" of the killer. Even though many thought the legion was weak on release, to quote McCote during a previous livestream, he noted that "people find it really fun to zip around and stab people".

Balanced or not, feral frenzy being slower and vaults being much longer detracts from that gameplay feel of being someone who is very agile. Trying him on the PTB, there is this nagging feeling that I am not much different from other vanilla-esque M1 killers who have sluggish and linear gameplay. I want the frenzied manic back.

To achieve this atmosphere, there is a good cosmetic change that can fix all this: Make the Legion very fast during feral frenzy in a chase but make survivors being chased during feral frenzy also move faster. "Put survivors in a frenzy as well."

---Survivors currently move at 4 m/s, feral frenzy is currently 5 m/s on the PTB.

Imagine the following:

---Feral frenzy is still 5 m/s by default, but....

-When feral frenzy is active in a chase:

---The Legion's movement speed gradually increases to 6 m/s from 5 m/s starting

---The survivor's movement speed gradually increases to 5 m/s from 4 m/s starting at the same rate

---Vault speed is reverted back to its old value but survivors in a chase during feral frenzy also vault faster as compensation

---Survivor vision is also partially blurred like the Legion's vision during feral frenzy

---If the chase ends, the movement speed bonuses are cancelled for both parties

By speeding up the chase for both parties during feral frenzy, we can preserve the same amount of relative speed balance while making chases feel more agile and frantic. The moonwalking exploit doesn't apply for this mechanic as the difference in speed is always 1 m/s. This change also introduces something novel for survivors as they have to be sure not to bump into walls or objects at their faster movement speed whilst providing some potential for juking.

By implementing this mechanic, we can make legion "feel" more exciting without affecting game balance significantly and more importantly adding some excitement to being chased as well.



  • Cpt_VunderbarCpt_Vunderbar Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 53

    That's actually a really interesting idea. The only issue I can see with it, is Legion missing his attack during Frenzy. Seeing as it completely cancels his Frenzy, something would need to be done about that to make the whole "chase and stab" fantasy work with your idea.

    I definitely like this though. It would help him alot.

    Sadly, unless they make his Frenzy stab not auto-kill his momentum, I think just straight up reverting his Frenzy and vaulting speeds back to what they were would be the right change to make.

  • DoomsakiDoomsaki Member Posts: 103
    edited April 2019

    The higher the speeds, the more counterplay that exists. In an environment where scratch marks and blood isn't visible, juking becomes easier with faster speeds.

    BHVR seems to balance killers based on some abstract metric of how "overbearing" a killer is. That's why chainsaw hillbilly who's attack can be dodged is so powerful but M1 wraith who walks up to people fast is so weak because no counterplay really exists.

    If the speeds were 6.5 m/s feral killer and 5.5 m/s feral survivor for example, then it'd be easier to justify more power in Legion's base kit like reducing the stun timer or decreasing cooldown charge time since more risk vs reward is present.

    Post edited by Doomsaki on
  • lindechenelindechene Member Posts: 69

    This seems like a very interesting idea because:

    • It keeps the core feeling of a fast running Legion
    • Running at significantly higher speeds and learning timings how to run the tiles adds a learning curve
    • It provides a skill based counter play for survivors

    My impression was before that Legion is too fast during frenzy and difficult to control.

    From that point of view it would give more advantage to the killers if his power would slow down the survivors in his terror radius instead of speeding him up.

    However if BOTH killers and survivors get a speed boost during frenzy it would really be about who is more skilled or experienced in running the tiles at higher speed.

    . . .

    Disclaimer: I am not able to participate in the PTB because I play on PS4 and add my opinion just based on speculation.

  • PluPlu Member Posts: 1,209
    edited April 2019

    Honestly they could keep the old speed, it was only an issue before because you hit survivor multiple time to damage their DW timer, but you can't anymore or only with 1 very lackuster addon being Frank's mixtape.

    Imo that's the only change Legion really need, he can stay the same but just make it so you can't damage DW normally, currently his frenzy is too weak, too easy to counter and too restrictive to activate for how little benefits you gain from it, even Lockers turns into free decisive strikes now...it's sad...

  • DoomsakiDoomsaki Member Posts: 103

    From the livestream it seems that the devs only want to tackle the issue of counterplay right now. Balance in adjusting legion up or down isn't something they are looking at. They claim that legion is stronger, I'd agree for normal gameplay, but he is weaker than the old moonwalking variant that could sometimes be seen at high ranks.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,364

    One problem: Lunges. With this change you would be unable to lunge since the speed of a lunge is already 6 meters.

    Also how do you know when to cause the speed increase?

  • DoomsakiDoomsaki Member Posts: 103

    Feral frenzy's attack isn't really a lunge. It requires you to be next to the other player.


    From a coding standpoint, legion would have an additive movement speed variable for his bonus feral frenzy speed. Being in a chase while in feral frenzy increments this value. Survivors in a chase get this additive movement speed also. If in a chase, and another survivor enters into a chase, they gain this additive speed right away. If a survivor exits a chase, they lose the additive movement speed. When the killer is not in a chase, this value is immediately reset.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,364

    Nonono. You can lunge while you are IN frenzy moving at 6.0 meters per second while you are doing it. That's the reason why attacking while in Frenzy used to be faster than just running, the lack of cooldown meant that if you were constantly lunging you would be switching between 132% and 150%. This lunge speed is a fixed distance as per one of the more recent patches, prior to which Killers like the Nurse and Spirit had a shorter lunge. Right now however it is always 150% speed for all Killers even when a power is involved.

    Frenzy is no exception, however with this change he would be unable to gain extra range using a lunge.

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