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I "was" so excited about end game collapse...

DehitayDehitay Member Posts: 1,288

When I saw the info on end game collapse, I was ecstatic. Not only did they solve the hatch problem that's been plaguing the game since it's inception, they also solved the problem of survivors holding the game hostage end game. And they did it in such a remarkably awesome fashion.

However, I got my hopes up and was brutally reminded of the 1 step forward, 3 steps back policy. Any time Behavior does something amazing, they do something else to crush the excitement it would build if they released it on its own.

  • "Adjusted the gate opening time for Survivors from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.

This I can understand since killer being able to close the hatch will make it more difficult for last remaining survivors to open a gate. But that's only fine on its own. They also went and did this:

  • Remember Me: Each time you hit your Obsession increase the time to open the exit gates by 4 seconds, up to a maximum of 8/12/16 seconds.

If you're going to buff the rate that survivors open the game, logic suggest that you in turn buff the perk that would counter the decrease in opening time. Why on earth would you go the other direction and nerf the hell out of Remember Me after decreasing gate opening time by 25%?!

The Left Behind buff still doesn't help. That perk needs to be reworked entirely.

  • RBTs only become active whenever a generator is completed. Inactive RBTs will no longer trigger when attempting to leave via an exit gate. *NOTE: Initiating the End Game Collapse will not complete generators, but will block them. This means that any inactive RBTs will remain inactive.

The change to the Pig's reverse bear traps straight up eliminates one of their best uses. Those things don't last long unless you're following the survivor with it on intentionally. And her ambush is too weak to have her bear traps so significantly nerfed.

When it comes to the Legion changes, people were already highly concerned about some of the seemingly unneeded nerfs like blood not being visible in frenzy, missed frenzy attacks ending the frenzy, and frenzy movespeed being cut. Behavior said they heard our concerns and would be looking into it. I foolishly thought that meant they would hold back one of the less necessary nerfs or add some form of compensation. But then I read the ptb notes and find these changes.

  • Increased the Feral Frenzy recharge time to from 15 seconds to 20 seconds.
  • Increased the fatigue time when Feral Frenzy ends from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.
  • Pallet vault duration 1.35s. Cuts time benefit by 25%. (was 0.9s; default pallet break is 2.7 sec. 0.1 for snap, 2.6 for break).
  • Window vault duration 1.1s. Cuts time benefit by 25%. (was 0.9s; default window vault is 1.7 sec, fastest Survivor vault is 0.8s).

When so many people were saying that they were giving Legion the Freddy treatment, I rebutted saying that they were just making changes to make them more like the average killers with standard counterplay. After reading this, I feel like an idiot. At this rate, Legion could very easily end up next to Freddy. Unnecessary nerfs added to unnecessary nerfs are really going to add up and make this killer weak.


  • MinusTheBillieMinusTheBillie Member Posts: 346

    Great post. Not a fan of some of the decisions made. I hope the data from the upcoming PTB will shed some light on the unnecessary damage these nerfs will cause to the viability and fun factor for some of the perks and killers. The RBT changes make me especially sad, even though I'm not a Pig player, just because the Pigs endgame was so fun and scary as a survivor.

  • KingBKingB Member Posts: 747

    It feels like the devs got the concept for the EGC then worried about balance afterwards. Instead of balancing things that impact it they just nerfed everything. I dont think a single end-game thing changed got a buff.

  • Dwight_ConfusionDwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,640

    Great post. Well said. I agree...

  • MystiKasTMystiKasT Member Posts: 289

    The developers are not the sharpest tool in the shed

  • CaptainCastleCaptainCastle Member Posts: 458

    I feel like the end game collapse really misses the point and feels like killer complaints have been ignored.

    A common complaint I've had and seen from other killers is that once the gens are done you have to keep doors closed, because once they open you basically auto lose. It's not impossible and you can punish overaltruism and snowball to late victories if you have decent control of the game, but minor coordination and perks like borrowed time and you can pretty easily rescue even if the killer is face camping. There are huge zones around exits where you basically can't kill a healthy survivor without an insta down.

    I feel like the devs have been promising an end game rework for ages, so when they announced the egc i was stoked. Then it turns out it's literally just a glorified concede option and a hard limit to how long you can be held hostage. An excellent addition for sure, and It also makes the hatch standoff a little more fair for the killer which is nice.

    However, i think this is it. I doubt they have any further plans to rebalance the end game, so instead we're limited to a toxicity screen.

    So we have an overly simple primary objective that can be completed in 3 minutes by an efficient team and a shorter end game that has less counters than before. It feels like we might just be stuck ice skating uphill as killer boys.

  • CaliCali Member Posts: 108

    I'd like to add that they are looking kinda dumb. No, really.

  • TheShape78TheShape78 Member Posts: 711

    I've heard the complaints, but here are my thoughts. I think what really matters most here is we finally have a fix for an annoying issue this game has had since day 1...when playing as killer, either you kill all but one survivor, OR all but one survivor escapes, and now it's up to you to search the entire map endlessly for who knows how long just to find the last survivor who, for some reason, won't just escape and end the game already. Knowing that this new endgame feature gives them just 3 minutes to do that, or they die, is literally all I care about. Can't tell you how many games I've had where I circled the entire map countless times searching for them for as long as it took. The endgame is a most welcome change in my book.

  • CaptainCastleCaptainCastle Member Posts: 458

    Why are we so happy with scraps? It took them 3 years almost to remove a griefing issue?

    This is supposed to be an end game rework, instead we got a fancy concede button and a hatch rework.

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