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Replace the ''Disconnect" option with "concede" during EGC for survivors.

Posted on reddit but was told to come here.

The game is already over. Me leaving is not hurting anyone else's experience, we've already lost. Just play the entity death animation as if the timer was up, count it as a sacrifice for the killer and let me leave with my points.

Four separate times today, we lost....badly. The rest of my team was killed and I was the last survivor alive. The killer closed the hatch starting Egc and I run to the door.. of course, there's not enough time to open the door and the killer finds me.

If they hooked me, I would be fine with it. They caught me, I lost..I deserve it... But they don't. Instead, they will either down me and sit out the timer, or chase without making an attempt to hit me until the timer is up.

I do not need to be trapped there for 2 minutes watching you stare and bm at me. The game is over just let me get into another match. This should not be ok.

and while we're at it, swap the normal DC with the entity kill animation and count it as a killer death.

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Comments

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 6,716

    I'm in support of it for the last Survivor, as at that point you're rubbing salt in the wound at their expense. For 2+ Survivors, I'd say keep it as is.

  • LittleLiamLittleLiam Member Posts: 34

    That's not funny. There's no point to doing it other than being a dick. If you're doing this, you should get in trouble for it.

  • LittleLiamLittleLiam Member Posts: 34

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C6ATueQUQ8&feature=youtu.be&t=267

    This is the sort of behavior I'm talking about and he does it twice in the same video!

    https://youtu.be/6C6ATueQUQ8?t=498

    It's not hard to go on youtube and find killers abusing this time as 2 minutes to bm their opponent because they already know they won. This is really frustrating for a survivor and I hope the devs do something to address it.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 15,206

    It's the PTB. Everyone wants to look at the cool new animation. I let myself die just to see what it looked like. I doubt this will become an issue in the live build.

  • LittleLiamLittleLiam Member Posts: 34

    I'd be ok with that just for basement plays. But at the same time, If you're trapping two survivors in the basement, the killer isn't making any extra points from this play. They would make the same as if they hooked them whether they conceded or not so giving them the option really isn't that bad.

    However SWF with hatch would be sucky with this and I see how it could be abused, but chances are they would dc anyways.

  • se05239se05239 Member Posts: 3,920

    Why not.

  • DustinDustin Member Posts: 688
    edited April 2019

    Regarding being slugged for the end game collapse I'd imagine some killers are doing it just to see what the animation looks like. I imagine once everyone has seen it enough that won't happen as much.

    Regarding a forfeit option I'm not against one as long as implementation doesn't interrupt the other players experience towards objective. For example being able to suicide / forfeit as the last one alive I'm not against. Doing it immediately at the start of the trial however I am somewhat unsure about. Since you can just suicide on hook at the start of a trial so its something I'm not entirely against. Although doing so may make it harder for other survivors.

    No idea how you'd implement an option to forfeit as killer though.

  • LittleLiamLittleLiam Member Posts: 34

    I don't want it to appear before EGC starts. By that time, the game is already over. The only thing left is getting out or dying. It would just change how fast that happens and not allow a 2 minute BM fest from the killer.

  • LittleLiamLittleLiam Member Posts: 34

    Thank you for taking the time to listen to me and thanks for replying too! @Peanits


    End game collapse is such a good idea and looks amazing. Please dont let it turn into a "designated 2 minute bm time"

  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,320

    I think the killer should be punished for it... there should be some special conditions that get applied near the end of the EGC.

    For example...

    in the last 25 seconds of the EGC... if all the following are true..

    1 survivor left...

    1 survivor slugged..

    Both exit gates are closed..

    --

    If all true.. the entity stuns the killer for 5 seconds and grants a adrenaline hit to the survivor... both gates open automatically.

    Make that last 20 or so seconds more enjoyable.

    make the slugged survivor play out the end in terms of crawling to a good location for escaping...


    Concede is ok.. but I would rather something else than conceding defeat.


    I won't be surprised it this situation happens allot in the live version. I've seen it already in the PTB a couple of times.

  • LittleLiamLittleLiam Member Posts: 34

    100% agree. The killer or player should never be "Punished" outside of points and thankfully they haven't done that in the past. Without going into a entire new mechanic or changing things too much I think concede is the best choice.


    Simply put, "If Endgame collapse is triggered by killer, It replaces Disconnect with Concede or "loose Hope" for survivors which will instantly play the entity kill death animation which counts as a killer kill so they get all the points for that. and the survivor leaves with all of their points as well just not the bonus 5000 for escaping."


    I'm all for the same thing with killer as well They shouldn't have to sit there for 2 minutes watching survivors t-bag in the exit gates, but I think it should be slightly different. If a survivor triggers ECG The killer should have the option to "retreat" as well and leave with all the points they got. However, Since we're on servers now when a killer DCS at any time during the match, EGC should instantly start giving the remaining players time to make as may points as they can in 2 minutes. A killer "Retreating" would start the timer over at 2 minutes even if there's 1 second left in collapse.


    Help cut toxicity from both sides by simply letting the other party walk away.

  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,320

    @WolfPad06 The game is over at that point... Make it exciting.

    Or the killer can just stare at the survivor for a minute or two... don't matter.

    They could make it where one of the entity's arms comes up and slaps the Killer across the face. BEAATICH!

    I like your attitude... Don't punish me! I played well.. I don't deserve to be punished...


    I don't know.. if your proposal is any good... but if it made the game more exciting then why not?

    Just like killers don't want survivors to be playing the M1 simulator... Survivors don't want to be treated like a killer's slab of meat. Cause we all know how killers like to beat their meat. Seriously now.

    ...


    But survivors are punished for rushing 5 gens.. they won't score high in the emblems... so if everyone was going to depip cause the killer played poorly.. and the survivors rushed them... then why not add in a bonus where the killer has a chance to kill off a few survivors.. and the survivors can score more points.

    Risk vs Reward.

    I don't mind that scenario.


    I want an exciting game.... not a... where can I crawl too to allow the killer to see me better... what angle you like better... butt forward or butt back?


    You are not allowed to concede... Why the hell would the Entity EVER allow anyone to concede?

  • LittleLiamLittleLiam Member Posts: 34

    "You are not allowed to concede... Why the hell would the Entity EVER allow anyone to concede?"

    Because watching another player who won gloat for 2 minutes just isn't fun for either side.

  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,320

    @LittleLiam yeah but the Entity might be enjoying every second of it...

    Death is not an escape... So why would the Entity allow you to escape by death.

  • LittleLiamLittleLiam Member Posts: 34


    Are you serious right now?


    Because Gameplay, QOL, and User Experience are more important than Lore.


    Why does the Killer get the points when the entity kills a survivor? The Killer didn't earn those! They didn't kill them, the entity killed them! The Entity should be pissed that it had to step in and do the killers job!

    The entity shouldn't give the killer anything then make your screen go black for a random amount of time as punishment before it decides its time for your next trial for failing.


    See what happens when you try to bring logic into this stuff? It doesn't makes sense.

  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,320
    edited April 2019

    @LittleLiam But but but... There is a leave match option then.

    Why should the survivor get points for not spending the time and twirl at my feet like a nice little rabbit? I can't help it if the rabbit couldn't find their hole to hide in.

    ...

    The only thing a concede option for survivor should do is allow the killer to mori them, if they so choose.


    SPIN FOR ME RABBIT!....



    There should be a secret code to concede then... Twirl counter-clockwise 3 times... followed by up up down down, left left right right, then 2 twirls clockwise.

  • WolfPad06WolfPad06 Member Posts: 182

    @TheBean I'm going to start taking you as a troll, since your posts seem to be so ill-composed and poorly thought out that I couldn't take you for anything else.


    I will say to your "Survivors are punished for rushing gens by doing poorly in some emblems" that killers are also punished for killing everyone quickly EVEN worse than survivors are for Gen-rushing. That is a problem with how badly designed the Emblem/Ranking system is though, not with how good or bad people play.

  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,320
    edited April 2019

    @WolfPad06 You can talk to me like a troll as you wish.

    Problem with a concede option is that...

    1. You choose to play a match, you should finish it.
    2. Now that the EGC wraps up the ending on a timer, there is no more holding hostage situations at the end for the remaining survivor(s).
    3. With the disconnects becoming more and more of an issue, why provide another mechanism to allow players to disconnect, but keep their points for not completing the match.

    If the survivor is in a no win situation where a concede option needs to be available to a survivor, would this situation then be considered a design problem?

    I believe by providing a concede option, you perpetuate the idea that leaving a match is "ok". A concede option would be "It is ok to leave" acknowledgement by BHVR. Right now, if you choose to leave by the "Leave Match" BHVR acknowledges that you can leave, but if you do so, you lose the match and everything you earned. Which, to me, is how it should be. You choose not to finish the match.

    I'm not trying to dismiss your opinion I just do not agree with it... with the points I made above.

    With that said...

    So you think the emblems are a bad design... but the emblems are a reflection on how BHVR wants players to play the match. Whether it be a good or bad player, don't play their way you don't get rewarded. This is how I see emblems.



    RUN RABBITS RUN... KEEP LOOPING.. CAUSE SOON YOU'LL BE ON MY HOOK!



  • LittleLiamLittleLiam Member Posts: 34

    1 By the time Endgame is initiated, the game is over. They stuck around where everyone had their game and nothing is ruined. It's not like they are allowed to dc in the first second and be ok.

    2 There is still very much hostage situations. If a killer holds one survivor in the basement the entire match, yes there is a time limit but they are intentionally ruining the game for that person. It's just not fun.

    3 Honestly, I think it will have the opposite effect. If they know there is now a point in the game where they can leave and keep their point they would be more likely to hold on to that point,

  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,320

    @LittleLiam

    1. However there is still people in the match, even if it is the other side. They may want to you DC, they may not want you to be rewarded for leaving, by keeping your points. You choose to play the match, so you should finish it, or leave.
    2. Holding players in the basement by the killer for extended periods of time is one of those design issues BHVR seems to think is "ok". So unless they fix that issue, that is a legit strategy as long as they aren't violating the rules of holding the entire match hostage. Design issue that needs to be fixed as far as I'm concerned. This isn't an excuse to allow players to concede and keep their points, since them leaving satisfies that killers motives at that time, and punishes the remaining survivors.
    3. I don't believe that, however it could be true. I do think it could also be true that a survivor may be bored of the match and just decides to concede the moment it becomes available, for the reason of "just because". Thus ruining the experience of the other side.

    Game hostage situations, although can be an issue, should largely be addressed with the EGC. The only time, that I can see, when a killer can hold the match hostage, is if they block all remaining survivors in the basement. Then, to me, this becomes an issue for BHVR not the players. If just one survivor isn't blocked in the basement, they can finish gens and trigger the EGC.

    Although this may not be fun for the survivor players, this again is a design issue, which would be a band-aid to simply allow them to leave and keep their points. To me then, this basically would encourage the killer and not discourage them.



  • boogieman976boogieman976 Member Posts: 25

    If conceding is added, it should only be available during EGC for a single survivor. I've seen plenty of single survivors still make it out alive during this time. That said, the devs should try and make it so that last survivors can't give up just because they don't want to try. People shouldn't be able to say "well, I'm the last person left and probably have plenty of points. I don't even want to try and get out so I'll just quit and take my points." That is being lazy and shouldn't be acceptable. To discourage this behavior, conceding should not guarantee all points. Missing out on the escape points isn't enough, there would have to be a penalty too. I think a 20% total point penalty, or the loss of all points in Lightbringer (Objectives) would keep people from abusing the system.

    In the current state of the game, though, I just think its best that it be left alone for right now. Until the disconnect culture we have now is addressed and people are punished for disconnecting all the time, there shouldn't be any new mechanics brought in that would make quitting seem acceptable. In the future, if we get rid of the folks that DC all the time just because they were found first or don't like the map/killer, then maybe something like this would be ok. Not until then though.

  • konspirikonspiri Member Posts: 10

    Hahaha it's not fun when killer do it to you right?

    But when survivors do it to killer it's ok.

    Please do not change anything.

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