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Remove Survivor Second Chances

VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,288

Remove all of the second chance perks, DS, BT, MoM, and the rest, and in return you can take back all of the Expose perks the killers have. I would rather the survivors not get free escapes for doing absolutely nothing, and I'm fine with not getting insta downs for having to actually do work (outside NOED requiring no work, but I'm fine with it being gone too).



  • ShaderzShaderz Member Posts: 32

    I agree with all of those but Borrowed Time. It really is essential to counter tunneling. As for the others, I absolutely agree.

  • ElegantElegant Member Posts: 443

    I'm fine with the current DS. It only works if you tunnel someone off the hook within 60 seconds. It's slightly annoying but not anywhere near as overbearing as it used to be. The only one that really needs to be addressed is MoM. Borrowed time and the other ones are situational and aren't that huge of a deal.

  • AcesthetiicAcesthetiic Member Posts: 1,077

    IMO, DS, BT and exhaustion perks are fine. MoM is debatable as it has high upside with low downside. NOED is an interesting one. Survivors can control its own destiny... yet, there is only one hex perk that relies on dull totems. I think they should have another perk that has to do with dull totems. That way, survivors can feel more inclined to cleanse totems.

  • rch614rch614 Member Posts: 551

    Mettle is really the only "free" second chance perk here. DS is absolutely fine and has counterplay. Borrowed Time is essential against heavy camping and tunneling. Dead Hard can be baited plus exhaustion addons are a thing.

  • NightmareRebornNightmareReborn Member Posts: 810

    I'd say that current DS and BT are fine. DS is anti-tunnel and BT is anti-camp. As for MoM...

    It's just a blatant second chance, definitely needs a change.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,288

    The solution to heavy camping and tunneling is to get the gens done and leave.

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,038

    MoM is garbage. The rest are fine and are there for a reason. If you're not tunneling/camping Bt and Ds don't even matter.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,288

    Or also, give the killer a perk that overrides second chance perks like MoM and BT, but make them work for it. A totem or something that can be broken, or it only activates when someone is saved outside of their terror radius, or something.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,112

    The only “free” escape you mentioned is MoM. BT and DS counter camping/tunneling. How do you feel about unbreakable? Most of these should stay including the exposed perks.

  • TheluckyboiTheluckyboi Member Posts: 1,113

    Current DS is fine, it is the best anti-tunneling perk of the whole game and you can counter it by simply slugging a survivor 60 seconds

    Borrowed time is also fine, another great anti tunneling perk, simply hit the survivor unhooking instead of the one hooked

    MoM is NOT fine, as i have stated many times i am very unhappy with this perk and the absolute cynism the devs have shown us by creating it, you are forced to use your M2 to counter it which wont be always possible specially on loops, some killers like freddy, pig and legion have no actual counter against it

  • TheGameZpro3TheGameZpro3 Member Posts: 699

    Can everyone stop saying we just straight up remove them! Those perks belong to survivors. ######### will happen to those survivors that have the perks?!

  • rch614rch614 Member Posts: 551


    Yes doing gens is usually the best way to counter heavy camping but let's assume everyone is solo and there is no kindred. Most likely not everyone would be doing gens so Borrowed Time is there as a perk slot to COUNTER that. And if BT is such an issue, attack the savior. Don't tunnel.

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,038

    @Vetrathene That's what Myc does.

  • NightmareRebornNightmareReborn Member Posts: 810

    DS isn't really a "second chance" like MoM is. The killer has full control on whether or not they trigger it. Same with borrowed. If new DS and BT didn't exist, camping and tunneling would be even worse to go up against. No amount of gens can save a survivor who's being hard tunneled and camped (w/o DS or BT).

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,288

    And that would be fine if everyone played solo like was originally intended with the game. But with SWF these kinds of perks can break the game.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,288

    Except both BT and MoM don't allow you to insta down them. Now while its good to use against BT since you can use it against the saver, it still does nothing if they also have MoM activated.

  • rch614rch614 Member Posts: 551

    Ah, time to point fingers at SWF. Alright, even with SWF Borrowed Time is usually necessary to save the survivor being camped. SWF can easily get those gens done and 3 escape but what about the camped survivor? Should they just be done as soon as its their first hook? Borrowed Time is fine.

    Also usually you can use SWF altruism against them, especially if they do have BT. A lot of them will trade places on that hook.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,288

    Then it comes down to who is having fun, and right now it looks like someone is suffering in this scenario either way. And I feel it should be the one who is on a team of four, versus the one who is alone and playing by themselves. Its punishing the minority just because they are the minority. The devs want the most people to have fun, but when the minority of those people are needed to have the game be played at all, that causes a problem, and why I and other killer mains get frustrated. I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I also know I'm not the only one who has expressed dissatisfaction with the way the game is currently implemented and balanced.

  • VictoryVictory Member Posts: 166
    1. DS, dont tunnel, if you tunnel the survivor you deserve to eat that fat DS, its your mistake that causes it, actually try to improve at the game. 2. BT: Don't camp, and no, end game isn't a good arguement because if you're camping end game you can just down the survivor unhooking and hook them, rinse and repeat. 3. Mettle really only bothers bad killers who suck at chases. Quit trying to ask for free kills when you already have the EGC for that, and actually try to get better at the game, survivors have to basically play swf if they want to survive with a sub-par BP gain. I don't know about anyone else but the newer generation of killer mains seem way more whiney and entitled than the ones during the dark days.
  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,288

    MoM borrows plenty of killers because it has no counter play and just makes it take even longer to down a person. Also survivors have a huge advantage in chases, as most of the map design is really suvivor sided with plenty of near infinite loops that the devs refuse to fix. DS has counterplay, but its still a free chance to escape for doing nothing but getting removed from a hook. BT encourages bad calls instead of trying to play smart. And all of these are made even worse by SWF.

  • VictoryVictory Member Posts: 166

    Mettle, is NOTHING compared to the dark days or DS 1.0, you obviously have never played back then. Killers have insanely broken addons that you cant counter like omega blink, 3+ blink, iri hatchets, insta saw, turning addons, trappers pink addons, hags mint rag, etc, etc. Killers don't have it hard, just because you got outskilled by some survivors doesn't mean the game is survivor sided, actually try to improve your gameplay. Everything else but myself mindset is toxic and horrible for the community, try to play both sides.

  • rch614rch614 Member Posts: 551

    No one should really be suffering. Right now we're talking about Borrowed Time, a perk that doesn't help the survivor running it whatsoever. It helps make sure the unhooked person isn't just tunneled to oblivion.

    Camping and tunneling are legitimate strats. But Borrowed Time is a legitimate counter. You're even further punished if you tunnel through Borrowed Time and they have DS. Both of these perks are prevented by not tunneling and going after the savior or applying pressure to the others.

    Fun is important in this game, but so are counters to something both sides do.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,288

    I was actually back there then, I started on release. I remember real infinites. I remember healing with self care before a killer could finish vaulting. I remember when all vaults where fast vaults. I remember when vaccum pallets where added. I remember D.S. 1.0. I remember each and every change to this game that has happened. And while it is not as bad as it once was, it can still use improvment, that is my aim, whether my opinions are right or not, I will still state them, and if someone provides an arugment, I will read it, or listen to it, and either continue my course or change my mind based on the information presented. Can you say the same?

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,288

    I agree with you on the principle of everyone should have fun. I just feel like something needs to be done about the current meta and abuse of these perks. Because this game has a lot of them, but so few are actually used at even low tier gameplay, and I feel thats a problem with perk design. And second chance perks are part of that problem. They're are choosen because they are get out of jail free cards. And when it comes down to it, very few killers use expose perks, so its not even really a fair comparison or trade. Just from my point of view and my experience, when certain perks/abilities/whatever are overused, something needs to be changed, either everything else needs a buff, or the offending abilities need a nerf or removal, depending.

  • rch614rch614 Member Posts: 551

    I agree that second chance perks are an issue but it really depends on the situation and level of coordination the survivors have. But that's a separate issue with that and the perks themselves, except Mettle.

    Compared to the other perks, yeah Mettle is an issue.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050

    Alright let's go through your list: Remember, there's a difference between a free second chance and a second chance that you need to work for.

    • Mettle of Man: I agree, this is a free second chance perk and it needs more requirements in my opinion. Perhaps taking hits while the killer is carrying a survivor is a better option to make the player work for their second chance.
    • Decisive Strike: This isn't a free second chance perk because you have to be hooked and then picked up within 40/50/60 seconds after being unhooked. In other words, if you don't focus the unhooked survivor, then you're mostly fine in my honest opinion.
    • Borrowed Time: This perk directly counters camping/proxy camping but you as the killer have counter play. That counter play is called: Just down the unhooker and you solve both the DS and BT problems.
    • Adrenaline: It's not a free second chance perk because you have to complete all 5 generators. You'll have better luck comparing this perk to Devour Hope because it rewards you for doing your job.
    • Deliverance: I think we can all agree that this perk is NOT a free second chance perk. You have to safely unhook a teammate to use it and even after activating the perk, you may not be able to use it if the killer camps or someone else saves you.

    If there are anymore perks that you can think of, I'll gladly review whether or not the perk is a free second chance perk.

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