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Hot take: Nurse is beatable



  • AcromioAcromio Member Posts: 1,609
    edited June 2019

    Hope you're proud of yourself. Now go back getting ass-blasted by the first Nurse you play against because running in circles is the only thing you're capable of.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,127

    @ScottJund you can’t always “just blink to the corner” so yes, prediction is a part of Nurse. Not every LOS blocker is one that you can just blink to the corner and see the survivors.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,068

    [BAD WORD] great. I love they are rock hard on Nurse and Billy. They are legitimately the only Killers that have a reasonable chance.

  • AcromioAcromio Member Posts: 1,609

    You're not seriously trying to argue with him, are you.

  • ReikoMoriReikoMori Member Posts: 1,309

    She isn't considered unbeatable it is just that the skill required to beat her isn't something you just have in the low ranks of the game. The higher in rank you go the more skilled the survivors become and the more coordinated teams you face. There is a saying I like from Tru3talent, "Strong survivors can make any strong killer look weak."

    Now, that does take a lot of work against a high level nurse player, but you do see it.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,068

    I know this might sound hard to believe, but Scott is a just a regular player like the rest of us. He isn't a dev that has access to stats and stuff.

    Could it be that, oh my God, maybe twitchers and youtubers aren't always right? Granted Scott is a great player. But I don't always agree with things he says. Case in point, there are plenty of people here downvoting his comments because people disagree with him.

    Stop putting people on pedestals.

  • LaakeriLaakeri Member Posts: 833

    As Zubat, one of the best player in both survivor and killer likes to say "Just hide and break the chase" and "If you spend 50 hours to learn Nurse you should be able to have all survivors downed while there are still 5 gens left" /s

    Simply put, if everyone is decent including Nurse you will die, but if everyone tries their hardest survivors will win due the nature of how fast gens can be completed.

    My take on Nurse is that she is necessary evil to combat the 4 man CWF.

  • godrengodren Member Posts: 141
    edited June 2019

    well omega blinks are good against good swfs if she has some huge map, but 5 blinks are bad against some good ones.

  • AcromioAcromio Member Posts: 1,609
    edited June 2019

    You obviously didn't get what I meant with that post. I wasn't "putting him on a pedestal". Quite the opposite, actually.

  • Boosted_DwightBoosted_Dwight Member, Trusted Posts: 2,930
  • SwInDSwInD Member Posts: 13

    Imagine having one of the better killer players in the game give you insight, then turning around and telling him he is wrong 😄

  • ScottJundScottJund Member Posts: 847
  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,611

    How many rounds of blinks can you dodge from a decent Nurse before she downs you? Does it EVER take more time than any other killer? On average, is there any killer who can down you faster? With the map pressure she has too?

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 17,492

    Quite a few. I actually have less success at dodging other killers' M1 hits.

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,611
    edited June 2019

    Glad that's the experience you have, but I'm willing to bet it's not the same for the gigantic majority of players.

    Taking into account that with the right setup it should take at least over 40 seconds for any other killer to down you (barring outliers like Spirit or Hag with proper setup), I heavily doubt she takes more than that in average.

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,611

    I'm sorry, to make it clear: every time I talk about balance, I'm talking about red ranks, because every game should be balanced around the highest level first.

    And I still think what I said applies to the highest level in this game.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,068

    Well. To that statement, I also tend to believe not a lot of people at Rank 1 honestly deserve to be there. Persistence is really the key to getting there more than anything.

    Plus, you can definitely tell when someone has been carried to Rank 1 by their SWF squad. I too don't really have too many problems going against Nurse. The only thing I dislike is her teleport increase addons.

    I honestly get [BAD WORD] up by Freddy more than Nurse. But that's because Freddy actually decimates solo survivors if he decides to tunnel you.

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,611
    edited June 2019

    That's perfectly fair. I honestly believe that until we have a proper ranking system and statistics not affected by the absolutely disgusting disconnect numbers, having any discussion about balance is pretty tough. And Nurse definitely doesn't care about whether you're a solo or not as much as other killers, so I can see why you can "carry yourself" as survivor against her more often than against some others.

    In my mind, I do think the Nurse removes too much agency from survivors, the same way good survivors remove agency from weaker killers. Balancing an asymetrical game is tricky, and I do think that if we're ever gonna get a killer balance pass (which seems pretty unlikely at this point) she deserves some nerfs, along with one or two more killers, while most of the killer roster deserves to be buffed.

    EDIT: and in the same way that some survs get carried to red ranks by SWF, I know for a fact that it's pretty easy for someone hardstuck at purple ranks playing bad killers can just whip out a pocket Nurse and skyrocket to rank 1. I believe that's a problem in itself. You should either have to be dedicated at a killer to climb with them or be able to climb with anyone if you're good at killer in general (which I think is more fair).

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,614

    I would like to see some Nurse experiments honestly.

    Have one of the best Nurses go against some of the best survivors. These survivors need to be good at mind gaming and understanding how to use the map to their advantage.

    There can be different experiments with different conditions to see if the results change.

    The best we have so far is Marth's experiment. But I would like to see new experiments since the meta has changed a bit since then.

  • GucciUwUGucciUwU Member Posts: 18
  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,068

    This already happened a few times during the Depip Squad Experiment. They won over 90% of all their games, regardless of the Killer played. Only a few of the sweatiest sweats could actually beat them, and the only people that "beat" them simply kept themselves from depipping. I think few, if any, Killers actually pipped against them.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,614

    @weirdkid5 Oh, I know. Only Nurses using the most try hard builds were able to win. But to be fair, the depip squad were being try hard as well.

    I want to see some new experiments. Games where both sides are using relatively normal setups. This will give us a better idea of how easily the scale can tip.

    Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a SWF team versing Zubat's Nurse. A lot of people tend to think he's one of the best all-around killers, so the anti Nurse people won't have any ammunition if Zubat is beaten.

    In other words, the Nurse haters are stating a good Nurse cannot be beaten. I want to give them a chance to prove it.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,068

    The thing is, if you recall, they did a perkless experiment. So they didn't even play full tryhard during one of the experiments, and Nurses STILL had to use super sweaty [BAD WORD] just to have a chance.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,614
    edited June 2019

    @weirdkid5 I still want to see some experiments with good Nurses. We need a wide array of experiments to truly gauge how strong a Nurse can be. If you get a skilled group of survivors to beat a really good Nurse (ex. Zubat) over and over, then that shows Nurse isn't overpowered like people think. The only good Nurse I can recall the depip squad beating was Blinky Bill. We need more than just one match.

    For the record, I would guess that any Nurse can be beaten. I recall Blinky losing a game or two during his streams. Of course, the footage for these games is lost as far as I know.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,068
    edited June 2019

    All of the Depip matches were uploaded to Marth's YouTube channel I believe.

    I dont disagree that it probably needs more testing, but to say other Nurses weren't skilled isn't doing players justice. There are a good number of exceptional Killers that do not stream, and probably some that are better than streamers. By that logic I'm one of the best Survivors ever since I occasionally stream and have a solo winrate of what I would estimate to be above 80%

    The truth of the matter is while we could sit here and let Zubat and the Depip squad play it out, that itself wouldn't inherently mean Nurse is OP or not. After playing a particular player enough, you start to pick up their habits and can be able to counter their gameplan simply by adapting to their usual strategy. That's why counter picks and pocket characters exist. We would need data on a wide variety of skilled Nurse players as well as a sizable pool of skilled survivor players in order to run these tests, and sadly, that's just not a completely realistic thing to do.

    Also, I would like to mention that, again, I believe Nurse is simply PERCEIVED as overpowered because a majority of Survivors simply crumble under the pressure of trying to escape a Nurse, and from a Killer perspective, seems overpowered for the same exact reasoning.

    She is definitely the most difficult Killer to escape a chase in, I'm not going to argue that. But there exist ways to beat the Nurse outside of chases, and to the Survivors that don't wish to play more stealthy, all I can say is, better learn to stop looping.

  • DehitayDehitay Member Posts: 1,602

    Really? I find her to be the easiest killer to escape a chase from. While it's definitely true that nurses down me faster than any other killer on average, I without a doubt lose nurses more often than I lose any other killer.

  • Star99erStar99er Member Posts: 990

    Urban Evasion is your friend, use it to counter Nurse, Spirit, and Hag.

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