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If this game is survivor favored then why...

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  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,112

    So, don’t play certain killers because you don’t think they are apart of the games balance?

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,112

    I’m a console nurse player and I don’t always win. I play for fun and fun is subjective.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,656

    thats your sight on the matter, i wont deny that it is possble to just have fun. in order to achieve this though, you need to ignore the games winning system and just have fun, weather you win or not. i personally found it a lot of fun to start cosplaying as survivors with leatherface. (my most succesfull build would be the "claudette" build: rusty chain / begrimmed chain (both if you feel like it), Bloodhound, Sloppy Butcher, Thanatophobia, Coulrophobia - basically, you do what claudettes do: healing. just that it is now a LOT harder to do so for the survivors when you are around), yet i do feel it when i 3k or 4k and only safepip. sometimes i literally want the victory cube to return xD

    however, there are people out there that play to win and especially these people will feel like the game favors the survivor side.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,112

    @Mister_xD I’ve always ignored winning, that sounds pretty fun. XD

    I wouldn’t mind the victory cube coming back. Some people do play to win, I myself don’t care about the balance too much and I mainly made this thread to see what everyone would say.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    I'm one of those people. If I can't feel like I'm working towards optimizing my winrate then everything else just kind of falls flat.

    Who cares about unlocking perks? If there is no final objective then it doesn't amount to anything

    Who cares about really cool strategies? Without a consistent goal there is no real way to differentiate between a good strategy and a bad one.

    Why would I play in any way in particular? If I'm not optimizing for something then my actions are entirely arbitrary.

    That's why the games stated goals (escaping for survivor and Killing everyone for killer) are so important while the emblem system I could care less about. AND it's a big part of why the game feels so survivor sided.

    It's also why I don't think a 50% escape rate is even something you should consider balance. I know the devs consider it balanced, but I would disagree with them.

    Think about escaping. If you can escape then whatever actions you took to get to that point were the correct ones. Maybe not always the smartest or nicest ones but they were definitely correct. You know this because you achieved your goal, and you couldn't possibly have achieved it better.

    After all a bleeding survivor on death hook isn't more or less escaped than an untouched and healthy one if they both run through the door at the end.

    However if you apply this reasoning to the Killer it doesn't hold as well. If I Kill 2 people then there is still more goal to accomplish, so I didn't win yet. If I Kill 3 people then again there is more goal to accomplish, so I can't say I've won. Hence why whenever I do winrate stat comparisons (I've done that in other posts) I always use 4k rate vs escape rate.

    TLDR a fair winrate would need to be somewhere between 50% and 20% with 40-30% allowing for a lot of variety in outcome. 30% in particular actually has the interesting effect of making it so you can have it where all living players always have the same winrate no matter how many players are alive. Or in otherwords if you start with a 50/50 winrate for a 1v1 Survivor vs Killer and then work backwards then you end up with an overall winrate of 30%.

    And everything about the game (besides the ranking system which is NOT the same thing as a victory system) supports the idea that it's 4k vs escape rate. The in game tutorial just flat out states that a survivors goal is to escape, and that a Killers goal is to kill the survivors. Each survivor can only escape once per game, and every Killer can only kill 4 times per game. So as a survivor if you escape once you win and if you kill 4 times as killer you win. And more importantly attempting to optimize those 2 stats is what leads to the full flow of the game.

    If I'm optimizing a 3-4k instead of just a 4k, then that means once I've killed the 3rd person I can just go afk. If I'm optimizing for emblems then that leads to me playing in a weird artificially prolonged way that just feels incredibly forced (for both sides).

    Optimizing for escaping ends up with an interesting balance between keeping the other survivors alive so we can do objectives and leaving them to die so the Killer doesn't get me instead. AND it requires me to master all of the aspects of the game (doing gens, looping, making saves ect). Trying to optimize something else like bloodpoints just leads to be doing things for the sake of it and not really ending up with a threshold which I can use to judge if I did enough or not. And if there IS a threshold then what do I do after completing it?

    Even if I was trying to optimize for pips, how many? Do I only win with a 2 pip or is a 1 pip a win too? And that would mean that the balance of the game shifts depending on rank, which just isn't what a ranking system is even for. Like if it's 1 pip = win then why should I care about 2 pips? Couldn't I just math out how close I've gotten to a pip as a Killer and then when I've gotten enough just go to stand in a corner for the rest of the match?

    Point is everything eventually wraps back to win conditions. And I mean EVERYTHING. Without a clear objective nothing works. Even sandbox games generally have something that you are working towards, like a main story line, or the top of a leaderboard, or even just a made up in game project which you hope to finish at some point. (I could never get into sandbox games for very long)

  • VexTheHexVexTheHex Member Posts: 1,009
    edited June 2019

    Cause the Killer mains that frequent the boards greatly exaggerate. Nurse and Billy are a bit OP. Well, Nurse really could just start with losing her additional blink add ons and see where she falls to with that. Certain other Killers have OP add ons like Prayer Beads or just too annoying ones like OHKO hatchets.

    Solo Survivor is rough right now. Lots of Survivors nerfs and Killer buffs have created mass death in in the purple ranks even. And you can't even rely on a hatch escape if something snowballs. And it only takes one snowball to really halt Survivor progress. Though I'm not advocating for mass changes, just maybe a kick to some of the obviously a bit strong Killers/add ons and some slight buffs to the weaker ones.

    Still waiting for Small Game to have a totem counter as well. It'd be solo helpful!

  • suffering23suffering23 Member Posts: 230

    1 thing have to be clear here, killers SHOULD be strong, they should be more than the survivors, survivors have tools and perks and teamwork on their side, so they have to make their way by working together, if the killers are only balanced and made fair, they stand no chance, billy is strong and only got his add-ons and chainsaw hitbox changes, they don't dare to change him more because people will go absolutely MAD and they know it, he is a powerful killer, same as nurse, they are strong! how they should be, but now they make such weak/neutral killers than survivors are so used to have neutral killers that they complain when one is too strong or that killers are cry babies and cry to be more powerful, we are meant to be strong, we are meant to kill you, while you are meant to survive, if spirit could see survivors in phase walk, nurse would be freddy tier compared to her, balance is needed yes, but keep killers 1 tier higher than survivors at all time, that's how it should be, they failed with plague, they made her same tier as survivors, what happens? survivors don't heal, they need to add 1 tier to her, and give a penality for not healing, wraith has no ability to down survivors but in chases, being able to hit survivors when you hit the bell for the first time wihtout any speed boost would be a tier up for him, even if the freddy rework is near, if he could go invisible time to time like spirit, it would be a tier up, and so on, every killer should be 1 tier higher, billy nurse and spirit are 2-3 tiers higher, but they are the exceptions, keep killers 1 tier higher, and the game will be fine.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    @suffering23 literally not how balance works. If the 2 sides are the same tier then by definition they should both win just as much.

    If Survivors not cleansing is a consistent and total counter to the plague then what that means is that the plague is NOT on the same tier as the survivors.

    The fact that Spirit has both guaranteed counter play which itself has guaranteed counter play and so on means that it's SPIRIT that's on the same level as survivors and NOT the plague. Same for Billy and Hag.

    Billy's power isn't strong, rather his power is just strongER (compared to most other Killers). That's just the amount of power you need in order to equal a team of survivors of equal skill.

  • AetherBytesAetherBytes Member Posts: 2,445

    Wanna throw this in, survivors can use ultra rare items and keep their items and some addons in a game, as long as they don't use it fully and escape they get a free, refilled item.

    Killers, however, have to use an offering to keep their addons, can't get addons ingame, and will need to pay BP in a randomly generated shop, meaning they're more expensive to upkeep builds with, and don't have a chance for a free item.

    Killers also have the disadvantage on 80% of the loops, I can't wait for the loops to be shortened. Only problem is with more pallets, it's just gonna create a system where one person can always drop a pallet and be safe, since the killer either stalls themself breaking the pallet, getting stunned by it, or survivor waiting at the pallet. If the killer gets stalled, they just move to the next one and are immediately safe again (or simply stall the killer at the current one) buying a lot more time for other survivors.

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886

    Most games will not have God SWF teams that can take advantage of it, though.

    Higher skill cap, higher reward.

    In reality making the most out of the "survivor-sided design" requires an incredible level of skill, coordination and teamwork, even with comms. It's like Nurse: high skill cap, high reward. But the cap here is even higher.

    The truth is that the actual stats show that survivors as a whole cannot play good enough to even just match killers.

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886
  • FeelsVeryBadManFeelsVeryBadMan Member Posts: 197

    It's survivor favored when a Forum Killer main loses a match.

    Remember kids, when a Forum Killer main loses a match, they will make sure to let the whole forum know how bad and trash this game is.

    :^)

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 13,222

    Anyone else remembers when they released statistics that showed that only 24% of survivors use SC?

    Yep, this stat is just as "accurate"

  • DoubleTapDoubleTap Member Posts: 218
    edited June 2019

    I win 9 out of 10 Killer matches

    I win 1 out of 10 Survivor matches

    Math is hard.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 2,744

    Swfs dont play like the totally nonreal sweaty tryhard depid squad because they dont have to. Nor do they want to because they dont have to.

    If all sirvivors would play to escape instead of "totes chat with friends, have fun and talk about cute boys"... then ohboy stats would be different. Go do maths on chance for killer wins with a 43 % winrate PER survivor. sounds rather high lol.

  • DoubleTapDoubleTap Member Posts: 218

    Killer has 4 lives (4 chances to fail)

    Survivor has 1 life (one chance to fail)

    Math is hard

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886

    And I'm saying that in the very small number of cases where they do, it's FINE. Killers are allowed to lose!

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,112

    @Raptorrotas but I like talking about cute boys.

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886

    You're one to talk about interpreting the data when you by your own admission think the data is just wrong and disregard it as irrelevant.

  • UsuiUsui Member Posts: 531

    Who's fault is that? The devs have literally made it so you are required to be overly altruistic if you even want a chance to pip.

  • PereliePerelie Member Posts: 433

    This is probably why they refuse to do anything about DC's. They can have it skew the stats and count DC's as "losing" so they can tell us that survivors aren't winning as easily as we think.

  • HeroiqHeroiq Member Posts: 1,134

    43%, 80%, whatever. i won't still believe it cuz it's only 1 week stats. and also 2 months old (1 aprill - 7 aprill).

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,112

    @Heroiq No u. You read the date! :0

  • HeroiqHeroiq Member Posts: 1,134


    i didn't really understand what you've meant by that, anyway. here's a tiny screenshot

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,112

    @Heroiq don’t be silly, we don’t read dates here. :P (I’m not exactly being serious in this thread)

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    Well, a 43% survival rate is pretty good if you take a look at the insane amount of dc's.

    Or were matches with any kind of dc's excluded from the statistics?

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