They're all biased toward their own side; not just survivor lmao.
I do agree that getting outside advice would be immensely beneficial for the DBD team. The problem is, "who?" I mean, look at this forum. People who have spent thousands of hours on this game are almost always, always constantly disagreeing with each other - everyone loves this game, and is passionate about its concept, but how often do people agree? Sure, there have been times when we all identified and agreed that something is a "bad" idea, but for the most part, almost everyone (even the "most experienced") have had different ideas on how to fix it. Both the developers and those of us on the forums always talk about "the community" as if we are one entity with one cohesive idea, but that's rarely the case.
I would gather that mostly everyone thinks they know how to make DBD the best game possible. And I believe that they all sincerely believe that they have the best ideas. Observing the forum though, I would also bet that mostly everyone would have different ideas on how to go on about it, and many of them would conflict with each others' ideas. So again, "Who?"
I find it really hard to be unbiased though. Not saying I disagree with all of you but you know even if they are unbiased. People will make it as a biased thing when they aren't and it's tough. The game has already incorporated the killer vs survivor mindset. Is there anything that could change that fact?
I was watching a Fog Whisperer after ghostface came out on PTB.
He put it best. The devs don’t care about what you think. They care about your wallet. They care about pumping out skins and as much as possible. Because people will buy and then complain about the game afterwards.
Everyone talking about how bad Ghostface is, but guarantee most will still buy him. That’s a problem.
He's right. Like Scott said, it's insane that Legion and Ghostface got so far in development like they were/are. Ghostface has killer breaking issues that are apparent within 30 seconds of gameplay to an experienced player. How is that even possible when we're 2 weeks from launch? It's ok if their talents lie in development and not actually playing or understanding the game from a killer/survivor counterplay perspective, but they need to have the humility as an organization to accept that and seek outside input if that's the case. If they whiff on Freddy, we'll be looking at a whole year without a high tier viable killer.
Who is ScottJund, and basically you want a group of random people to enjoy all the perks of being the Devs, without actually needing to go through all the hardwork required of being a Dev.
Basically, you want to call the shots and then make the Devs do your work for you.
How about NO.
if ScottJund wants to make the perfect hide and seek killer game, he should make his own game.
@not_Queen @Peanits @Patricia @literallyallofBHVRstudios
I kinda doubt they would actually do something like this. And even if the wanted to I don't think they could allow normal people to do it because of NDA.
But if at the very least this makes them realize their community knows what they want in their game, that should be good enough for all of us.
If you had watched the video you would know he livestreams DbD on a regular basis and no that is not what that is at all.
At most this would just be a few community members like the Fog Whisperers or something that could have direct contact with the people that do develop the game and tell them whether or not they like their ideas and if it is something they think the DbD community would want to have so we don't have situations like with Ghost Face and his perks being so garbage.
Seriously did you even read anything I typed or even clicked on the video? Not sure what I am expecting you to take away from this reply if that is the case but, no that is not what Scott said in the video at all.
In paper, it would work.
In reality, as soon as the pseudo-chosen ones leave BHVR's facility they'll rush to their computers and start making videos about what's coming next and what not, contributing to the uproar, unreasonable hype, unmet expectations and general disappointment.
All just over some ideas thrown around.
It would only work if they were BHVR's employees, signing contracts guaranteeing no leaks and all.
Well we know how they are with leaks....
Remember when MoM was leaked? Survivor reaction was "This is going to be awesome". Killers reaction was "this is going to be horrible". What was it like when it was finally released and we got to test it? Exactly what we thought!
Biased or unbiased, many of us know the game well enough to read a design or idea and have a reasonable understanding of whether it really weak or really strong.
Other companies are consulting with pro players, so why not? In the group of Fog Whisperers there are surely some players who would be fit for giving advice.
Just because he livestreams DBD doesn't make him an important person. I have always found it funny how today's generation of gamers idolize streamers but in my book he is a nobody in terms of DBD game development.
"a few community members like the Fog Whisperers or something that could have direct contact with the people that do develop the game and tell them whether or not they like their ideas and if it is something they think the DbD community would want to have so we don't have situations like with Ghost Face and his perks being so garbage."
Sounds like telling the devs what they can and can't do.
He does not deserve to advise the DBD team on what they can and can't do.
And no, I don't watch videos like that, sorry.
Call me ignorant, but my point is the Devs need him to tell them what to do as much as they need any of us here on the forums to tell them what to do. He isn't special, if he wants to give the Devs a piece of his mind, he can post in the Wishlist and Balance forums just like everyone else.
@Mochan sorry if this comes off as rude as there isn't really any better way to word this, but the post is literally about the video so if you refuse to watch it then what's even the point of responding to this? It's like pretending to be a surgeon without having any experience or even basic knowledge of it whatsoever. It's also like pretending to be a critic of a movie or a book you never read, or pretending to know the answers to real world problems without any experience or knowledge in any of those fields either.
Second of all, Scott doesn't even support the idea of the game being a hide and seek game whatsoever, he actually favors the game being more chase orientated. The other thing to keep in mind is that just because someone makes a suggestion people like does not mean they idolize the person who made the idea, they just agree with it. Literally nobody is explicitly saying he is more or less important, just that he has an idea they agree with.
Infact, in the video he explicitly states that he isn't even throwing himself into the ring and that his video is purely a suggestion meaning that your first comment doesn't even make any sense. The suggestion he made is actually something a number of other games do to know what will excite their players and deliver what they want at the same time.
Literally what you're saying is that people should not try to make suggestions and that if they do then it should only be on one of the many platforms there are out there. Mind you that M'cote has even said himself on the year 3 stream and on many other occasions that DbD stopped being just their game from the moment they released it meaning that players can capitalize on this by providing their own feedback by any reasonable means to help them improve their game overall and that is exactly what Scott did by making his video.
You could gain a lot out of watching it, especially where you're commenting on a post that's dedicated to that video. Otherwise again I have to ask what the point even is of posting on this thread.
I do understand that might've came off rude, but I don't think I could've worded that any better.
Great idea.. However if this ever happened i hope it's better people then who was chosen for the fog whisperers. If you every actually watch them the are some of the most toxic people in the game.
@Peanits @not_Queen @Patricia
Just pinging you all so you can have a read here because ScottJund makes a really good point.
Wow God forbid a player with some kind of exposure uses it to suggest a good change to the devs
Better only use exposure for shitty memes and clickbaity titles right
I understand the frustration comes from Ghostface's design, but we shouldn't discount every other killer that the devs have released that were done properly.
When Plague came out her design wasn't as bad as Ghostface's, for example. She needed to be tweaked here and there, but that's about it.
I do agree that there should be some kind of a whitelist somewhere between conceptual state - to - PTB, that could get asked opinions on stuff. I think they should pick people who are mostly positive and open minded... and who understand the game more than most.
I agree, I think there were alot of high profile streamers that knew about and play tested Apex Legends about a year before release.
The problem with having an unbiased team is that they will likely be biased.
The reason developers don't do stuff like this is because even the best players at a game do not offer good solutions to problems. In fact many have very stupid ideas that would never work in the game. They can help devs identify the issues, but that's about it.
I worked in game dev for a short time. It's not like you think it is. 5 years ago I would have agreed with everything Scott said, but today no. Devs should DEFINITELY not let any players in on the concept design process. That's honestly a very stupid idea, as it just creates a risk of leaks for them and won't do anything to make the game better.
What they SHOULD do is bring in top players to play the current state of the game and give feedback on the issues. Then look at the biggest issues, look at the games they played to see exactly what is happening, then come up with solutions themselves. We need a game health check more than we need "pros" deciding what should and shouldn't be in the game.
Bias aside, i guess ANY experienced player can see the problems with Legion, MoM and Ghostface.
Just show some vet streamers your ideas and if everyone says this will not work, think about it. Some like clown, some may not. But everyone agrees on fundamental flaws.
I think the roadmaps are the problem. They’re dead set on the 3 month chapter train to pump out DLC (which is understandable, they want to make money and keep fans happy at the same time). But 3 months is not a lot of Time to create whole new power and perk designs from scratch. You can see in their recent perk designs, that they are basically running out of ideas. There’s only so much you can do in this game mechanics wise, without basically copying other abilities and powers. To really create something fresh and new that is also gamechanging takes a lot more than the 3 month time tables they are working on.
Eh I don't think this is the case.... Vince and cahla the 2 streamers who were on the 3yr anni stream got to see an inside look of what's coming and they didn't announce anything to the community
Well this is just an idea, but if they suggested it I think the hardest part would be finding people that would be unbiased or at the least having equal biases on each side. If they can do that I think it would be really good for the game's future.