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Calling it Now: Freddy Rework Will Be GARBAGE in Current Meta Unless Dream Snares Are OP

tehshadowman33tehshadowman33 Member Posts: 939
edited June 2019 in General Discussions

Downsides

1) Nerfed invisibility mindgames - Freddy is invisible only when survivors are outside Freddy's terror radius, which will be increased to 32m. Say goodbye to empty pill bottle mind games! Spirit has now become the undisputed master of mindgames with this change alone.

2) Teleportation ability telegraphs like a neon sign - Not at all useful as an offensive tool unless you're playing against someone blind and deaf. It's a 5-second channeled ability that alerts survivors working on a generator that Freddy's channeling his teleportation ability and Freddy can only teleport to a generator. This gives a survivor a 20m headstart before Freddy even gets there! That's better than sprint burst and it's COMPLETELY FREE! This ability also has a long cooldown.

3) Nerfed endgame potential - RIP endgame Freddy meme builds. Survivors can now wake themselves up with a clock on a pedestal similar to Plague fountain.

4) Removed stalling potential - Freddy's ability no longer slows survivor actions. Freddy's going to be just as vulnerable to generator rushing as any other M1 killer.

5) No mapwide auras - Sleeping survivors do not have an aura. This is probably the biggest change to Freddy, which affects your planning when playing as Freddy.


Upsides

1) Dream state - You can hit any survivor when in melee range, regardless of what they're doing.

2) Swapped terror radius - Negate Borrowed Time by standing next to a survivor doing an unhook then hit the unhooker and then hit the person unhooked.

3) Loop denial - Dream snares can deny loops, but only if survivor is asleep. If the debuffs are the same as hinder and nothing else, this might get him a free hit. If he can place dream snares while running a loop, it can possibly shorten chases by forcing the survivor to abandon the loop, but that will depend on a lot of other various factors, such as whether the dream snares take a long time to create, and how many dream snares Freddy has to work with. I'm going to assume they work identically to Hag's traps.


Neutral

1) Forcing survivor into making mistakes potential - Fake pallets can potentially make survivors take a bad loop and get hit.

2) Sabotage hook checks wake survivors up - Who cares? Filing this under neutral.

3) Teleportation - Better map presence on larger maps, but this won't get you into a chase any faster because survivors will have a 20m headstart to get to a safe tile before you even show up.


Verdict

If Freddy gets dream snares and fake pallets, he might be only slightly worse than he is now. If designers only give him one of those, he'll be way worse than current Freddy in the current meta UNLESS dream snares are overpowered.

This rework is a bad combination of Hag (hinder traps) + Doctor (fake pallets) + Nurse (teleportation).

This entire rework hinges on how impactful dream snares are to Freddy's gameplay as they are his clutch mechanic and require setup in advance of a chase unless the dream snares are used to make the survivor abandon a loop.

Post edited by tehshadowman33 on
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Comments

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 8,343

    As far as the gen teleport, can we say for sure that the Survivors will be alerted for the full 5 seconds? In the demonstration they showed, the gen bled for only about 2 seconds before Freddy popped in. Now, it's hard to say whether that's because the gen doesn't spew blood until the teleport is almost fully prepped or whether they just shortened the teleport time for demonstration purposes, but I'd like a proper clarification before making a case for teleport being potentially good or bad.

  • IhatelifeIhatelife Member Posts: 4,976

    I wanna give it a try.

  • IhatelifeIhatelife Member Posts: 4,976

    But I also think that Freddy should still have a 50% reduced action speed in dream world for survivors.

  • tehshadowman33tehshadowman33 Member Posts: 939


    Most people underestimate how good Freddy really is if you play him effectively.

    This proposed rework, based on the leaked details, might end up as a nerf depending on how strong dream snares are.

    If the dream snares are weaksauce, it's going to be a straight-up nerf compared to current Freddy with a proper perk build and good addons.

    I mean, WHO CARES if I can teleport if that means my opponent will be two tiles-distance away by the time I even show up? Five seconds + telegraphing move = Bad, very bad, bad, bad...

    The rest of the changes are just more nerfs to invisibility and stalling capabilities.... If you don't compensate Freddy for giving those up, it's a bad rework!

    Most people whine about not being able to hit people as Freddy when they're awake, but I say... No, that's fine... He's got a tiny body, tiny terror radius, normal lunge range, and if you use the correct addons, Freddy's absolutely terrifying to play against.

    If someone dies early game against Freddy, more than any other killer, due to his stalling ability, Freddy shines the most because he slows the game down to a crawl and gets those 3 other kills!

  • JimsalabimJimsalabim Member Posts: 641

    stop making assumptions and wait until we see the real changes in live gameplay.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    What do you mean "have to get into a chase"? AFAIK you can do the gen teleport any time you want, as long as it's charged.

  • KenshinKenshin Member Posts: 912
    edited June 2019

    i mean, did u really think they gonna make a strong killer? never give this studio the benefit of the doubt ever again. they disappointed the community too often for that.

  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 1,059

    I think he will be stronger overall with his new rework, of course this is all based from speculation.

    I saw you forgot to mention a new mechanic to wake Survivors up: The Alarm Clocks.


    Recall that in the anniversary stream they showed footage of Survivors going to clocks across the map to wake them up temporarily. I think this is a nice touch and also maybe gives a bit of an edge to predict where Survivors may go when they are completely asleep.


    One other thing, Isn't it a good thing that all Survivors eventually fall asleep instead of having to put them to sleep yourself?


    I'm excited to see how he works and how strong he will be.

  • NikkiwhatNikkiwhat Member Posts: 1,147

    We'll see, it's a bit too early to make assumptions...wait till PTB of the rework is available.

  • PluPlu Member Posts: 1,209

    Yeah i have the same toughts on the matter, they just turned him into a basic M1 killers (Which seems to be what rework means to theses devs) and gave him worse versions of other killer's powers.

    On paper his kit seems good but depending on the numbers they choose could make him either op or worse than he is right now, and judging by how they [BAD WORD] up Legion's "rework"...i'm going to guess that they are going to [BAD WORD] Freddy's numbers as well.

  • tehshadowman33tehshadowman33 Member Posts: 939

    Actually, I mentioned it in the downsides point number #3. That downside hurts Freddy the most in endgame because it completely prevents him from using his old tactics of sleep everyone, then whip out NOED + Blood Warden + Remember Me.

  • Ember_HunterEmber_Hunter Member Posts: 1,693

    I really wish they kept some action speed penalty and some aura readings, but not to the extent Freddy is now. There should be more pressure into getting out of the dream state, because sooner or later, people are going to learn how to deal with the lullaby, and Freddy won't be so powerful unless he has the action speed and aura reading add ons.

  • tehshadowman33tehshadowman33 Member Posts: 939

    Yep, my conclusion exactly. If the dream snares aren't just outrageously good, he's going to be worse than Clown who can slow on demand without setup, and still beats a limited teleport.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,754

    Wait. Did they change his terror radius?

    Also from the animation we saw it doesn't look like the telegraph happens at the start of the channel. Or in otherwords even if it's a 5 seconds channel that does NOT mean it's a 5 second head start for a surv at the gen.

  • Ember_HunterEmber_Hunter Member Posts: 1,693

    Yes, now when you are awake, you hear the normal music, but when asleep, you hear the lullaby so it's (a little) harder to last in chases with him.

  • Claudette_BaguetteClaudette_Baguette Member Posts: 466

    They said the snares will only be available with addons.

    Isn't that a joke? Addon dependant killers suck anyway. Imagine having to use addons to obtain the corrupt purge or pig's traps for example.

    The "new" freddy only has a gen teleport (which is kinda meh because it doesn't help you in a chase) and the "doctor pallets". That's it. Boring and it won't help in a chase.

    The snares could help but since they are addon dependant it sucks. Make it default then he might be playable.

  • Ember_HunterEmber_Hunter Member Posts: 1,693

    Right? And I wish they kept more pressure to getting out of dream state like keep the aura reading. And maybe action speed penalty but to a lesser degree.

  • SomeissuesSomeissues Member Posts: 1,408
    edited June 2019

    Please just don't make Freddy a add-ons reliant killer

    Killers like Billy, Nurses, what makes them good is that they are already decent without addons

    Some killers are unplayable/ weak without addons

    some become balanced with good addons, but u will eventually run out of addons

  • BongbingbingBongbingbing Member Posts: 1,423
    edited June 2019

    I'm optimistic but having his power tied to generators with how fast generators are getting done makes me worry.

    Will he be able to teleport to completed gens so he's not powerless in the end game? who knows.

    I think it's best to save judgement till the PTB since we know very little on the actual ins and outs of his powers.

  • Ember_HunterEmber_Hunter Member Posts: 1,693

    Like Legion, I have to use decreased cooldown time on him in order to chain attack (and lasting longer too) add ons.

  • ReddRedd Member Posts: 826

    The problem is that I can't help but be worried after the freddy nerfs, doctor nerfs, legion nerfs, and Ghostface... whatever Ghostface is that y'all have done in the last half year.

    Y'all nerfed Freddy and Doctor, Doctor specifically being a major concern for me because you reversed a major buff you gave him during his rework specifically to make him viable, in order to buff Borrowed Time and keep Legion bad. Then y'all's Legion rework is............ Please take another crack at that one at some point.

    And then Ghostface ptb was not productive, even if y'all are fixing him now. A lot of people were able to predict a lot of those problems via speculation ahead of time too, so it's not like speculation was completely wrong in the most recent case... And I'm deliberately leaving out the details about the fact that I think 8 of the other current 14 killers need another balance pass on top of Freddy.

    I'm just saying it's hard not to speculate and be concerned. It may not be helpful, but it's still an interesting discussion to have for me personally.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,754

    @Ember_Hunter No I mean the size. Someone mentioned it being 32 meters instead of 24 now. Was this confirmed?

    @Peanits ?

  • PeanitsPeanits Dev, Community Manager Posts: 6,428
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