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https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/194208

BHVR revert the fast vault change

HavelmomDaS1HavelmomDaS1 Member Posts: 1,948

There is no reason for that. Also it was a differentiation between a skilled and not so skilled survivor to use the vault mechanic at in specific ways. Not only did you nerfed fast vaulting from very difficult angles (which took skill to perform) but you also nerfed loops on jungle gym and shack window because u can't delay your vault for mindgames without getting a medium vault.

BHVR, why? Noone asked for this. U are just making survivor gameplay more flat with that change and remove fun.

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Comments

  • harry14141414harry14141414 Member Posts: 356

    agreed

  • yoyoyoyoyoyo Member Posts: 45
    edited June 2019

    Big spins and moonwalks were unintentional as well but they decided to leave them since they raise the skillcap and reward good survivors for succesfully pulling them off

    And you are somewhat right, looping debris on maps like autohaven where you can see eachother takes no skill, but that definitely changes at high wall loops and jungle gyms ( especially TL walls) or certain dropped pallets, where imo it takes skill to play them correctly and outplaying your opponent's mindgames.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited June 2019

    I can do this normally still no problem, mostly because I always "swing out" when I get to the window so that I always get a fast vault.

    I also am fast enough with my hands that I can look behind me, and turn back straight to gauge my distance properly from the window. I've never waited until the last moment to vault anyway, I've always done it at the moment it's available. This is a habit I kept from the "vacuum" days.

    And 360s have a counter to them, which is why they kept them in. Getting a fast vault from a spot you were meant to get a medium vault doesn't have a counter, the Killer can't do anything about that, and the Survivor gains more distance than the devs intended.

    It isn't the same ordeal.

  • yoyoyoyoyoyo Member Posts: 45

    Big spins and moonwalk were unintentional as well but they decided to leave them since they raise the skill cap and reward good survivors for pulling them off.

    And you are somewhat right, looping debris/barrels on maps like autohaven takes no skill, but that definitely changes at jungle gyms( especially TL walls) and certain dropped pallets, where imo it takes a lot of skill to play correctly and outplay your oponent's mindgames.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916

    Nani?

    How did my reply get put ABOVE your comment when you made yours first? Lol

  • yoyoyoyoyoyo Member Posts: 45

    I somehow deleted the comment I think when I meant to edit a typo and I posted it again. Sorry about that lol

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916

    I didn't even think you could delete comments. Wat.

    Anyway, I'd like to know your response.

  • yoyoyoyoyoyo Member Posts: 45
    edited June 2019

    As you said that "getting a fast vault from a spot you were meant to get a medium vault doesn't have a counter", imo there shouldn't be windows that can't be fast vaulted ( not taking in consideration the obviously broken windows of the most main buildings that I don't understand why they are still staying the same after so long). Think about the "4 lanes" maze tile that is already somewhat weak against a decent killer and you can't fast vault the window of the 2 possible spawns from the side opossed to the pallet, before, the survivor could have been rewarded if got a fast vault or outplayed if the killer was expecting that. That had a big impact on shack as well when played at very high levels. Imagine that good killers couldn't mindgame me at shack, which made it a very good loop for me, but it was still possible by very good killers and this takes us to 2 of the very big problems of the game: The matchmaking/ ranking system. I got well over 2k hours and I get matched with killers under 1k, obviously I'll destroy them, but when I get matched with killers of my hours, things somewhat balance out.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited June 2019

    I disagree. Having all windows that can be fast vaulted create potential infinite situations. They intended for windows to work how they currently do back when they made the angle change, and even further when they made certain loops longer in certain directions.

    Take Rancid Abbatoir for example. If you get the side window, there was potential for that to actually become a true infinite until they made changes to the loop in that direction.

    Some loops are meant to be powerful when approached at a particular direction, while getting put in the OPPOSITE direction will cause the Killer to gain more ground, and part of these was forced medium vaults. Getting fast vaults in these spots doesn't really take any skill, you just touch the window and hit space. I'm not really seeing the huge gap in skill this is going to cause. Again, this is basically an exploit. These windows were supposed to always give medium vaults to give the Killer the advantage if they are looped in that direction.

    Survivors already have extra breathing room during a loop because their hitbox is smaller. Adding a fast vault with that created situations where Survivors could get near infinites in directions they weren't meant to get. This is because it could break the chase for a moment, which causes the window blockers not to register, since they only accumulate during a chase.

    These maze tiles sometimes have two windows, when used in conjunction, even if you get medium vaults, can delay even a good Killer for a decent amount of time. This is one of the main strategies I use. There is nothing stopping players from still getting fast vaults, they just need to press space sooner when checking behind themselves.

    And in the cases of places you weren't meant to get them, now it works properly. If it had a counter play I would agree with you, but it doesn't. Hours don't really mean anything imo. I have less than 1k hours, but I've played the same way ever since Day 1. I've never had to adapt my playstyle to changes of the game due to the nature in which I play.

    This allows me to defeat Killers with many more hours than I do because I play very non traditionally, and can catch a lot of veteran Killer players off guard. This is why these changes aren't really bad to me, because it doesn't affect how I play. I could see if you were used to how it was before, but you need to realize how it was before wasn't meant to be how it is. This actually requires Survivors to use MORE skill. You will have to develop strategies that are unorthodox that do not rely on janky mechanics to work in your favor.

  • yoyoyoyoyoyo Member Posts: 45

    I mean, yeah, we are probably over reacting to the vault changes since, I at least, can change my routing to play safe without the need to get a fast vault, I've been hit a lot of times because I went fot a fast vault and I got a medium one instead. The thing that I dislike the most is that the killer can be behind me at the killer shack and I have to press space early enough to get a fast vault and enter the vaccum, and ofc he will see the vaccum and double back to the other side of the window and I'm just watching him doing that, incapable of doing anything about it.

    Also, it CAN create infinites but at the already very broken windows that should be fixed in particular and not change such a big mechanic.

  • AlphaphaltAlphaphalt Member Posts: 221

    Still removes skill cap when it was perfectly fine as it was.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited June 2019

    You don't have to get sucked into the vacuum, you just need to time it so you don't hit the wall when you press space. This will be akin to hitting a 2 frame in a fighting game or something, difficult, but not impossible. This promotes more skill since you have to time it at a more precise timing, otherwise you get punished with a medium vault. I've honestly never really had problems with the scenario you're presenting but that's just me.

    This change overall is a good one because it won't affect windows you can normally fast vault at, while at the same time eliminating the ones that were unintended.

    If it turns out some windows that are meant to be fast vaulted get affected, then I will agree that window in particular should be addressed. But we are going to need more than a month to make that conclusion, since there is a a lot of possible human error when it comes to these windows.

    Like the case of the streamer someone posted recently, he still could have gotten fast vaults. Imo he purposefully is blowing the problem out of proportion because he doesn't want to SLIGHTLY adapt his gameplay. Just hit space like .05 seconds sooner than when you hit the wall. I don't find that very difficult to adjust.

  • yoyoyoyoyoyo Member Posts: 45

    I created that scenario myself as an example but I haven't experienced it just yet since I didn't play the PTB or survivor that much since the update. I may be overreacting but I'm sure I will adapt.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916

    I can't say I've ever had a situation where a Killer "reads my vacuum."

    Like I said, I've never had issues mindgaming the shack, and I've never used vaulting in this manner. I always assumed you couldn't fast vault if you touched the wall anyway.

    But people blast me for thinking realistically lol

  • HavelmomDaS1HavelmomDaS1 Member Posts: 1,948

    U r probably the most biased killer main in this Community. I can't take you serious anymore, honestly. I used to, but not anymore. Your points aren't reasonable.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited June 2019

    And now you've officially gone off the rails. If you even bothered to check my stream you'd see I pretty much exclusively play Survivor. I didn't even get 1000 sacrifices until 2 years after I started playing, that's how little I play Killer.

    I think you need to take a step back from the forums, relax, and realize you are stepping over the line

  • yoyoyoyoyoyo Member Posts: 45

    I read a lot of early vaults because I've seen the survivor enter a somewhat vaccum animation and I met them at the other side of the 4 lane window for example before they even ended the vault. I also never had any moments where the killer saw me vaccuming because I was vaulting as late as possible but I guess I will go for a guaranteed medium vault now since the killer will realise it and double back anyway..

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916

    Just sounds like bad Survivors to me, but I don't wanna make a dumb argument like that. I would like to face against you in the queue one day and see how you fair.

    And that's pretty much what I would do anyway. Spots where you get guaranteed medium vaults, you can expect the Killer to double back. Now you simply don't vault at all. If he catches up to you, then that is a mistake you are supposed to take for taking the loop in the wrong direction. You'll have to have more awareness about this kind of thing now.

    I don't think that's a bad thing.

  • AvilgusAvilgus Member Posts: 385

    " skilled and not so skilled survivor"

    😂

  • HavelmomDaS1HavelmomDaS1 Member Posts: 1,948

    What's your point? Make a claim and I'm happy to rip it apart if it's wrong.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited June 2019

    What? What are you talking about lol I never played that way because I never found a need to. The way I play wins me games, I can easily get to Rank 1 without ever using a single perk solo queue, can you do the same?

    Look, you questioning my skill is a hilarious argument itself. It's an ad hominem, meaning I don't have to take you seriously at all.

    For the record, before the update, I went and did this whole, "touch the wall and fast vault" thing. I thought it was pretty stupid. Especially when they said they intended for places to have medium vaults.

    It doesn't take skill to touch the wall and fast vault. And doing so in a spot that was meant to be a medium vault is an exploit. You performing that exploit isn't skillful.

    However, me having about an 80% survival rate WITHOUT using this dumb little trick shows I have much more skill than most Survivors in all areas of the game. Feel free to watch me play, I don't mind putting my money where my mouth is.

    Also not a Killer main XD

  • HavelmomDaS1HavelmomDaS1 Member Posts: 1,948

    As if rank 1 means anything, this just shows you have no clue. Probably playing Blendette and takes the hatch at the end cuz once found you get downed in 10 seconds lol

    So, why are so many survivors failing to do that if it doesn't take skill? I saw so many survivors attempting to get a fast vault at cow tree anti clock wise and failed. Probably 1% of survivors successful fast fault this. "No skill" but majority fails. Yeah sure bud.

    Yeah, just saying you survive 80% of the time isn't making your claims stronger. Proof or... I would say I have survivalrate of 100%

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited June 2019

    Nope, I only play Meg, and I can use the brightest clothing in the game if you'd like. And Rank 1 now means more than before, because you actually have to do a substantial amount to even get 1 pip. Are you sure YOU know what you're talking about? I can lead a Killer for 3-5 gens pretty often.

    I literally did it on my first try. I've been playing games for 20+ years of my life, you don't think I can't time it properly? I play fighting games XD sorry that most Survivors in this game are doo doo, which is backed up by the devs statistics that say a majority of Survivors are in the low ranks.

    Where are your statistics that MOST fail?

    And I literally stream every single time I play DbD. I don't ever play without my stream on. So you can easily see my Survival rate.

    Back off man.

  • BongbingbingBongbingbing Member Posts: 1,423

    It's not a matter of skill. It was intended to be like this from the beginning but survivors found an exploit and now it's been fixed.

  • DrDeepwoundDrDeepwound Member Posts: 1,307

    running straight to a window and holding spacebar, = skill ?

    LUL

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited June 2019

    @DrDeepwound I would hate to see him play a game like MK11, FighterZ, or God forbid, BlazBlue.

    I would also like to see his evidence that only 1% of survivors could do this.

    Oh wait, he doesn't have any. He asks for proof, but never provides his own.

    This discussion is a joke.

    @Bongbingbing logic doesn't work in this part of town.

  • yoyoyoyoyoyo Member Posts: 45

    There's a very small chance of us playing against eachother so you can watch me play at https://m.twitch.tv/videos/412550558 ( keep in mind this is a 2v2 Sandbag Tournament). My matches start at 2:13:28 and 4:12:00. I had about 1800 hours when these took place. My name is "yo"

  • yoyoyoyoyoyo Member Posts: 45

    @weirdkid5 There's a very small chance of us playing against eachother so you can watch me play at https://m.twitch.tv/videos/412550558 ( keep in mind this was a 2v2 Sandbag Tournament). My matches start at 2:13:28 and 4:12:00. I had around 1800 hours when these took place. My name is "yo"

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