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The BNP change

Kawaii_HagKawaii_Hag Member Posts: 9
edited July 2018 in 2.6.0 PTB

Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

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Comments

  • Dwight_ConfusionDwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,650

    They should change it to maybe 50% max, and 25% min.

    It was harsh, but tryhard clowns were ruining matches.

  • MrmaplesyrupMrmaplesyrup Member Posts: 16

    I do think the BNP changes were a bit harsh but, at least a whole gen isnt getting completed the second the game starts! :D

  • BottledWaterBottledWater Member Posts: 248

    I like the BNP change it gives you a small boost on the gen but not such a big bonus that it would effectively remove 80 seconds of the killers time without a lot of counter play

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,200

    @Kawaii_Hag said:
    Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

    If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

    Look at how fast the gens go even WITHOUT anything.

  • OakLestatOakLestat Member Posts: 125

    Complete to 50% over a 10 second longer duration would make more sense.

  • DocOctoberDocOctober Member Posts: 2,230

    The main problem is the discrepancy between Survivors' objective and the Killer's objective in how they gain progress.

    1 Generator equals 1/5 or 20 % of the Survivor's objective, yet 1 Hook only equals 1/12th or 8.33 % of the Killer's objective.

    And that's not all, Survivors can complete their objective in 400 seconds (580s), but the Killer's takes the equivalent of a whole other Generator longer with 480 seconds (860s).

    So of course the BNP has to be nerfed considerably.

  • AfelisxxAfelisxx Member Posts: 3
    They should reduce the cost of it to compensate to be honest.
  • Maximus7Maximus7 Member Posts: 443

    BNP change is perfect tbh. It gives you a big head start on a gen while not being impossible to counter as the killer. It probably should be a very rare add-on now instead, but I love it the way it is. The big way they can fix the balance issues in this game without touching anything else is make gens take longer (even if it's just 15-20 seconds longer)

  • Dragon_of_FantasyDragon_of_Fantasy Member Posts: 50

    I'm still on the fence as if it is a good/bad nerf. The addon is pretty weak when starting a generator especially if you lose progress because a killer kicks it. Bnp might be better to use when you're about 75% done with the generator, so a complete generator is guaranteed (assuming you hit the new tiny skill check).

    Overall, I agree with the idea of reducing the bloodpoint cost of bnp. If possible, I think there should be an option to use the bnp addon or the repair box instead.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,139
    It’s 25% because it’s a 4v1 that makes sense that it’s 1/4 of the strength. The first nerf was a joke if you think that actually changed anything. It’s still decently strong, just not a broken, not get to have a real game for the killer. 
  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930
    edited July 2018

    @Blueberry said:
    It’s 25% because it’s a 4v1 that makes sense that it’s 1/4 of the strength. The first nerf was a joke if you think that actually changed anything. It’s still decently strong, just not a broken, not get to have a real game for the killer. 

    50% Would match the strength of an ebony mori more, in a 1v4 sense

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,139
    Jack11803 said:

    @Blueberry said:
    It’s 25% because it’s a 4v1 that makes sense that it’s 1/4 of the strength. The first nerf was a joke if you think that actually changed anything. It’s still decently strong, just not a broken, not get to have a real game for the killer. 

    50% Would match the strength of an ebony mori more, in a 1v4 sense

    I disagree. To get mori’d you have to mess up 4 times assuming no SC chances/SB/DS/body blocking/flashlights. Those are pretty big assumptions those won’t happen as well. I mean even with a mori used, how many second chances are you wanting? 
  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Blueberry said:
    Jack11803 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    It’s 25% because it’s a 4v1 that makes sense that it’s 1/4 of the strength. The first nerf was a joke if you think that actually changed anything. It’s still decently strong, just not a broken, not get to have a real game for the killer. 

    50% Would match the strength of an ebony mori more, in a 1v4 sense

    I disagree. To get mori’d you have to mess up 4 times assuming no SC chances/SB/DS/body blocking/flashlights. Those are pretty big assumptions those won’t happen as well. I mean even with a mori used, how many second chances are you wanting? 

    Balance wise, injures aren’t meant to be chances, once you’re found, that’s supposed to be a guaranteed hit. Also, by saying I must run perks and that those determine offerings, is stupid.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,139
    Is it stupid? So we’re balancing this on rank 20 where no one has perks? Getting hit is a chance because in the games current balance you’re only getting hit because you as the survivor messed up. If you play it properly you can loop a killer for 5 gens with no hits. You getting hit is determined by you, not the killer. 
  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Blueberry said:
    Is it stupid? So we’re balancing this on rank 20 where no one has perks? Getting hit is a chance because in the games current balance you’re only getting hit because you as the survivor messed up. If you play it properly you can loop a killer for 5 gens with no hits. You getting hit is determined by you, not the killer. 

    Then fix gens and looping

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,139
    Jack11803 said:

    @Blueberry said:
    Is it stupid? So we’re balancing this on rank 20 where no one has perks? Getting hit is a chance because in the games current balance you’re only getting hit because you as the survivor messed up. If you play it properly you can loop a killer for 5 gens with no hits. You getting hit is determined by you, not the killer. 

    Then fix gens and looping

    Well that I completely agree on. We’ve been telling the devs for years though. It seems they are trying to tackle it in other ways I guess. 
  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Blueberry said:
    Jack11803 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    Is it stupid? So we’re balancing this on rank 20 where no one has perks? Getting hit is a chance because in the games current balance you’re only getting hit because you as the survivor messed up. If you play it properly you can loop a killer for 5 gens with no hits. You getting hit is determined by you, not the killer. 

    Then fix gens and looping

    Well that I completely agree on. We’ve been telling the devs for years though. It seems they are trying to tackle it in other ways I guess. 

    Other ways that font work, try to fix what ain’t broke, or simply create more problems. Like adding killers as bandaids, BBQ’s existence, BNP instead of general objective nerf. General exhaustion nerf instead of SB nerf. Literally all map design, solo and SWF gap. The list goes on.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,139
    I agree again mostly. However, the exhaustion perks do arguabley overshadow many other perks. Also, what’s wrong with BBQ? It promotes leaving the hook and is counter able in multiple ways that dont even require a perk to do so. I don’t have any issues with it on survivor. 
  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Blueberry said:
    I agree again mostly. However, the exhaustion perks do arguabley overshadow many other perks. Also, what’s wrong with BBQ? It promotes leaving the hook and is counter able in multiple ways that dont even require a perk to do so. I don’t have any issues with it on survivor. 

    Because of nurse and billy. It’s fine with other killers, like a single BNP’s with little gen rush is. Strong but not insane. But if you’re unlucky you face a billy, and your ass is grass. Just like 4 BNP’s. Except syringes are ultra rare, but let’s ignore that for now, it doesn’t matter to make my point. Basically, you could argue “a perk shouldn’t be nerfed cuz it’s too strong on one killer” but that’s simply not true. Just like BNP’s the effect is strong with a single one, or a normal killer, but with billy (or any more BNP’s) it’s just too much. It may not happen much, but that doesn’t mean you should just lose all hope because you’re facing a certain set up. Long story short, it may only be strong on billy and nurse, but it needs a nerf due to their speed. Just make it 3 seconds.

    With 3 seconds, normal killers can track you about the same as they could before, but that extra second is the difference between a billy in terror radius, and in direct sight of you.

  • RSBRSB Member Posts: 2,258

    @Kawaii_Hag said:
    Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

    If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

    If you give me an addon, that instantly kills one survivor when I manage to hit him, then we can talk about how "unfair" the BNP nerf was. It was the most cancerous addon in the game and a well deserved nerf, feels balanced now.

  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @RSB said:

    @Kawaii_Hag said:
    Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

    If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

    If you give me an addon, that instantly kills one survivor when I manage to hit him, then we can talk about how "unfair" the BNP nerf was. It was the most cancerous addon in the game and a well deserved nerf, feels balanced now.

    Eh, nerf is still a bit too much. It should do 25% without checks, and 40-50% with checks. Are just stop being an ultra rare, because it no longer lives up to its rarity.

  • RSBRSB Member Posts: 2,258

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Kawaii_Hag said:
    Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

    If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

    If you give me an addon, that instantly kills one survivor when I manage to hit him, then we can talk about how "unfair" the BNP nerf was. It was the most cancerous addon in the game and a well deserved nerf, feels balanced now.

    Eh, nerf is still a bit too much. It should do 25% without checks, and 40-50% with checks. Are just stop being an ultra rare, because it no longer lives up to its rarity.

    But, uh, generators are done within 3-5 minutes without BNPs, with BNPs the game is an insta win for survivor, the nerf is good in my opinion.

  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @RSB said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Kawaii_Hag said:
    Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

    If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

    If you give me an addon, that instantly kills one survivor when I manage to hit him, then we can talk about how "unfair" the BNP nerf was. It was the most cancerous addon in the game and a well deserved nerf, feels balanced now.

    Eh, nerf is still a bit too much. It should do 25% without checks, and 40-50% with checks. Are just stop being an ultra rare, because it no longer lives up to its rarity.

    But, uh, generators are done within 3-5 minutes without BNPs, with BNPs the game is an insta win for survivor, the nerf is good in my opinion.

    Then fix the actual problem, gen rushing. Make more FORCED objectives

  • RSBRSB Member Posts: 2,258

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Kawaii_Hag said:
    Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

    If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

    If you give me an addon, that instantly kills one survivor when I manage to hit him, then we can talk about how "unfair" the BNP nerf was. It was the most cancerous addon in the game and a well deserved nerf, feels balanced now.

    Eh, nerf is still a bit too much. It should do 25% without checks, and 40-50% with checks. Are just stop being an ultra rare, because it no longer lives up to its rarity.

    But, uh, generators are done within 3-5 minutes without BNPs, with BNPs the game is an insta win for survivor, the nerf is good in my opinion.

    Then fix the actual problem, gen rushing. Make more FORCED objectives

    Do you believe they would touch the gen fixing time? Or give additional objective?The BNP nerf is all we can count on while thinking of genrush. The moris were nerfed to the ground, so BNPs can as well be.

  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @RSB said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Kawaii_Hag said:
    Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

    If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

    If you give me an addon, that instantly kills one survivor when I manage to hit him, then we can talk about how "unfair" the BNP nerf was. It was the most cancerous addon in the game and a well deserved nerf, feels balanced now.

    Eh, nerf is still a bit too much. It should do 25% without checks, and 40-50% with checks. Are just stop being an ultra rare, because it no longer lives up to its rarity.

    But, uh, generators are done within 3-5 minutes without BNPs, with BNPs the game is an insta win for survivor, the nerf is good in my opinion.

    Then fix the actual problem, gen rushing. Make more FORCED objectives

    Do you believe they would touch the gen fixing time? Or give additional objective?The BNP nerf is all we can count on while thinking of genrush. The moris were nerfed to the ground, so BNPs can as well be.

    No, mori’s weren’t not nerfed to the ground. They skip 8 hooks total. That’s 2/3 if the killers objective. 4 BNP’s should do 2/3’s of the survivors objective. Not FOUR ULTRA RARES, doing 1/5 of it.

  • RSBRSB Member Posts: 2,258

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Kawaii_Hag said:
    Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

    If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

    If you give me an addon, that instantly kills one survivor when I manage to hit him, then we can talk about how "unfair" the BNP nerf was. It was the most cancerous addon in the game and a well deserved nerf, feels balanced now.

    Eh, nerf is still a bit too much. It should do 25% without checks, and 40-50% with checks. Are just stop being an ultra rare, because it no longer lives up to its rarity.

    But, uh, generators are done within 3-5 minutes without BNPs, with BNPs the game is an insta win for survivor, the nerf is good in my opinion.

    Then fix the actual problem, gen rushing. Make more FORCED objectives

    Do you believe they would touch the gen fixing time? Or give additional objective?The BNP nerf is all we can count on while thinking of genrush. The moris were nerfed to the ground, so BNPs can as well be.

    No, mori’s weren’t not nerfed to the ground. They skip 8 hooks total. That’s 2/3 if the killers objective. 4 BNP’s should do 2/3’s of the survivors objective. Not FOUR ULTRA RARES, doing 1/5 of it.

    As I stated before, genrush is a thing, the killer does not have a time, when survivors control it. Even without BNPs they can finish the gens within 5 minutes, while even with mori, killer struggles to kill all of them before the last gen is finished.

    What you are saying is not logical, because in this game we have both sides - one weak (who is supposed to be strong), and one strong (who is supposed to be weak). Of course the nerfs for the stronger side should be bigger, than nerfs for already weak side.

    If one side can finish it's objective WITHOUT addons like BNPs (playing optimally), before the second side finishes it's objectives (playing optimally as well), and WITH BNPs one side can finish it even faster, then we have a total imbalance in the game, that needs to be fixed (by nerfing said BNP as well).

  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @RSB said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Jack11803 said:

    @RSB said:

    @Kawaii_Hag said:
    Am I the only one who thinks this change is way too harsh? This is the 2nd nerf BNP has gotten. The 1st one was needed. But going from 100% completion with skill checks to 15-25% with only 2? What is even the point of bringing this add on in anymore?

    If people felt it needed a nerf why not make it so it completes up to 50%? The current build in the PTB makes it almost as useless as the Odd Bulb. What is the point of ultra rare add-ons if no one is ever going to use them...

    If you give me an addon, that instantly kills one survivor when I manage to hit him, then we can talk about how "unfair" the BNP nerf was. It was the most cancerous addon in the game and a well deserved nerf, feels balanced now.

    Eh, nerf is still a bit too much. It should do 25% without checks, and 40-50% with checks. Are just stop being an ultra rare, because it no longer lives up to its rarity.

    But, uh, generators are done within 3-5 minutes without BNPs, with BNPs the game is an insta win for survivor, the nerf is good in my opinion.

    Then fix the actual problem, gen rushing. Make more FORCED objectives

    Do you believe they would touch the gen fixing time? Or give additional objective?The BNP nerf is all we can count on while thinking of genrush. The moris were nerfed to the ground, so BNPs can as well be.

    No, mori’s weren’t not nerfed to the ground. They skip 8 hooks total. That’s 2/3 if the killers objective. 4 BNP’s should do 2/3’s of the survivors objective. Not FOUR ULTRA RARES, doing 1/5 of it.

    As I stated before, genrush is a thing, the killer does not have a time, when survivors control it. Even without BNPs they can finish the gens within 5 minutes, while even with mori, killer struggles to kill all of them before the last gen is finished.

    What you are saying is not logical, because in this game we have both sides - one weak (who is supposed to be strong), and one strong (who is supposed to be weak). Of course the nerfs for the stronger side should be bigger, than nerfs for already weak side.

    If one side can finish it's objective WITHOUT addons like BNPs (playing optimally), before the second side finishes it's objectives (playing optimally as well), and WITH BNPs one side can finish it even faster, then we have a total imbalance in the game, that needs to be fixed (by nerfing said BNP as well).

    They should add a condition, where you need to get a gen guzzling before a repair. Maybe a 10-15 second of several skill checks. It’d go a long way. Can’t be regressed though.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,139
    I would say you should fix something about those killers then, not hinder a perk because of its effect on less than 10% of the available killers. That said, I don’t see it as much of an issue even on those killers. The issue is more with those killers themselves than the use of that perk on them.
  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    @Blueberry said:
    I would say you should fix something about those killers then, not hinder a perk because of its effect on less than 10% of the available killers. That said, I don’t see it as much of an issue even on those killers. The issue is more with those killers themselves than the use of that perk on them.

    My opinion, make fragile wheeze purple. Make hillbilly a bit slower, and same turning amount per meter, as if it didn’t stay the same, he’d had less map control, but hit chainsaws more. So basically less mobility for both, and make sure on billy that less mobility doesn’t buff him. Not a lot though, let’s pretend he goes at 200 (killers go at 115) I’d say bring him in that case to 180

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