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fast vaults are still horrible (with proof)

nichtRoxasnichtRoxas Member Posts: 67
edited July 2019 in General Discussions

So this hits are really common if the killer decides to swing at the window like that. That happens because you get sucked back into the window after vaulting. This bug is around since the vaulting changes where they made it so you keep momentum after vaulting. I'd say it's only fair that you either fix that or revert the momentum thingy after you nerfed fast vaults. And don't tell me that was a Ping thing. This bug always happens you just hope they don't swing. I had 40 ping on mlga and his Ping never spiked so that's not the issue.

Proof: https://youtu.be/jzfoU-60G7Q

https://gyazo.com/e6e6232b3eaf825cadd4c5b5aa4e98ed

Post edited by nichtRoxas on

Comments

  • AStupidMonkeyyAStupidMonkeyy Member Posts: 718
    edited June 2019

    @nichtRoxas You were literally in front of that window after you vaulted it. Why shouldn't that be a hit? And that is definitely slight latency unless you can show us proof of your ping at that moment because I haven't had any issue as survivor and I've had plenty of misses at windows as killer today.

    Post edited by AStupidMonkeyy on
  • ReikoMoriReikoMori Member Posts: 2,236
  • Tru3LemonTru3Lemon Member Posts: 1,358

    the killer was right next to you and you think you wont get the hit? you should really think of how killers can hit you example the most broken thing its the hillbilly chainsaw now thats broken but that video like you said proof i see it many times and they did not broken they change the issue that had with the fast vault cuz ppl can abuse it alot this wasnt the case you just vaulted when the killer was already doing the lunge

  • darktrixdarktrix Member Posts: 1,790

    Vaulting usually means I get hit every time now, running vaults, does not matter. I need a huge lead on the killer to have a chance. I even fake a window vault and get a good 3-4 meters away from it before I was rubber banded back to the vault and hit.

    Latency is pointed at as the culprit, so killers have the advantage in all these situations. Dedicated servers may help this, or cause more problems. I don't know, I just know I never have as many problems with pallet slams as I do window vaults now.

    You also have to be careful when you vault, if you get too close to it, it changes from a running vault to a medium vault even straight on. That time is pretty short between running vault to medium vault too. I think latency probably affects that also when you still get a slower vault when it was clearly saying a running was possible.

    Vaulting has some low tolerances made even worse by any latency. I would just not play any lobbies with higher than a 150ms ping and even then it questionable.

  • nichtRoxasnichtRoxas Member Posts: 67

    How is that latency? I can show you another expample and another and another ping never spiked on mlga. That's because you get sucked back into the window after vaulting. That did NOT happen before the momentum changes.

    Here's another one: https://gyazo.com/c2cd24ff48190a2a1de823d585b4014c

  • nichtRoxasnichtRoxas Member Posts: 67
    edited June 2019

    I don't even know why they made this change. Who asked for survivors to keep momentum? Fast vaults were fine before that but since that you constantly get sucked back and it's a 50/50 if you get hit or not. Or maybe like an 80/20 because killers don't always swing because they don't know they can hit you.

  • VolfawottVolfawott Member Posts: 3,893

    Is still directly in front of the window as you could actively see the killer swing through said window when hitting the survivor

    Survivor: how did that hit me

  • nichtRoxasnichtRoxas Member Posts: 67

    Yeah it looks worse on the female ones. It's just stupid that this never happened before. Idk who asked for survivors to keep momentum but that caused it and they don't want to fix that.

  • FishFry247FishFry247 Member Posts: 695

    It does seem to be a little different compared to what it use to be, I honestly don't know how they haven't fixed people looping a window more than 3 times, I've been chased though Window for over 12 times before closing. And killer's dc and I can't honestly blame them

  • nichtRoxasnichtRoxas Member Posts: 67

    That! And we also have the opposite one where the window blocks instantly.

  • AStupidMonkeyyAStupidMonkeyy Member Posts: 718
    edited July 2019

    @Kind_Lemon That's the problem. You are basing it off of the weapon. The weapon is just a skin. It's there to make everything look nice. A killer lunges but its the hit detection detecting the hit box that matters. You most definitely was close enough to get hit. I have plenty of videos of me missing window swings because I was too early. You were already in the hit zone during the vault. It was just making the animation look nice. (Edit: Here's to help know if a hit should have happened. IF YOU SEE RED, YOU'RE DEAD.) If the red stain is on you, you are close enough for a hit.

  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    Yes, and the issue is that the animation looked horrendous. It's the weapon, the visual representation of the hit detection zone, that we as humans base our judgement on whether something should have hit or not. If it doesn't look like it did, and the hit detection zone says otherwise, then of course the players are going to complain, because again, we cannot see the hit detection zone, we don't have a solid idea of what it looks like (generic cone shape), and any infinitesimally small meeting of the two near the broad part of the cone results in a registered hit regardless of anything else.

    In short, we are talking about the same problem. I am calling it a problem, and you are not.

    @AStupidMonkeyy @ashtongh

  • AStupidMonkeyyAStupidMonkeyy Member Posts: 718
    edited July 2019

    @Kind_Lemon All the devs have to say is this. If you see red (the red stain behind you without looking behind you), you're in the hit detection range and the HIT will DEFINITELY hit. The hit detection is 3 steps away. When you lunge, you close the gap VERY quickly. Also, survivors hit boxes are slightly wider and taller than the actual models. That's true even in Call Of Duty. It's rectangles. It's not easy to change it without causing a LOT of issues and with games like this, too small of a hit box makes a hit impossible in certain circumstances. Just like how killer slows down drastically by barely touching a wall or how you can get stopped altogether when going into certain basements while carrying someone or trying to chainsaw down a steep basement. It all has hit boxes. (Edit: My favorite hit box. If you play a tall killer like Trapper or Billy and walk under the crane, you actually SLOW down drastically without realizing it. You also CANNOT chainsaw someone under the crane. It makes you hit the crane.)

  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    @AStupidMonkeyy The hit-boxes in DbD for survivors are silo-shaped. They extend significantly above the heads but are slightly thinner than the distance between the hands of the survivors when in the in-game idle animation. The face protrudes from the hit-box, and this is more true for male survivors. When in the red stain, the hit detection zone will register a hit, yes. The lunge allows the killer to cover the distance at a speedy pace to have everything line up as it should.

    Issues arise when 2 things happen:

    1) The killer hits a survivor at the end of the lunge. The killer is further away from the survivor at the hit registration time than if the killer hits a survivor at the beginning of a lunge. This makes things look strange.

    2) There is a physical barrier between the killer's body and the survivor's body. This occurs at all vault spots, Haddonfield fences, and maybe one other place. The hit detection zone reaches past the obstacle, but the game can't move the killer to make the weapon visually connect. Therefore, it just looks like the killer misses and yet the survivor still loses a health state. If there were an animation for killers hitting survivors over obstacles that involved leaning over the obstacle, none of us would be having this conversation. It's the consequence of having a hit detection zone larger than the weapon reach and having the visual confirmation of hits be reliant on moving the killer to the survivor.

    It's been made worse with the recent changes to lunge animations, which speed up killers on successful hits to reach the target. It honestly looks like The Nurse teleports 2 meters after her blink is over when she hits me. Additionally, it has resulted in too many instances of me teleporting back into the weapon if I'm being downed on the other side of a window. However, I digress.

    There's nothing wrong with using hit-boxes that don't line up with the survivor's model. There's almost nothing wrong with having a hit-detection zone that doesn't follow the weapon swing animation. However, it becomes bad design when a player can hit another player over an obstacle but not have any animations register that properly because the hit detection zone is larger than the weapon reach.

  • AStupidMonkeyyAStupidMonkeyy Member Posts: 718

    @Kind_Lemon The Nurse has a normal lunge now. After she blinks, she gets the same 3 step lunge as every killer from a couple of updates ago. I never see hit registering that looks funny unless the ping is over 90. Then it starts getting a little weird. I've been downed 10 steps away from the killer but that's because of desync from the actual host' connection. Also, if you're playing past 90 ping, the hits are gonna look weird because the host always goes first through packets. By the time it reaches survivors side, it looks like you randomly got his 5-7 steps away but in reality, you were already hit, it just took awhile for the game to let you know. Once servers are up, you'll see the difference.

  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559
    edited July 2019

    @AStupidMonkeyy

    What I mean is that my graphics are so low that because of how the Nurse reappears, she appears on top of me in the fatigued state after her red glow is pointing in the opposite direction (if she hits me) with no warning whatsoever. My explanation is convoluted, but I'll upload video when I can. However, I don't think dedicated servers will solve the issue of lunge animations not seeming to connect properly. I think it will exacerbate the issue.

    And, yes, every* killer has the same lunge (which is unfortunate imo for reasons too long for this).

    *save Mike

  • Chaddad2169Chaddad2169 Member Posts: 748

    These vaults are a problem and there's only 2 ways I think they can fix this

    1. (Obviously none of you killer mains will agree with this) Revert the vaults back before the new momentum change

    Or

    2. Adjust the survivors' hitbox when performing a vault action to properly align when the killer should and shouldn't hit.

  • nichtRoxasnichtRoxas Member Posts: 67

    Yeah honestly just revert the changes. I don't need momentum after vaulting I'd even say it hurts me most of the time.

  • Chaddad2169Chaddad2169 Member Posts: 748

    Also, the older vaults imo had a higher skill cap and just looked and felt smoother as well, the survivor just half ass pulls themselves through with these new vaults. If you've compared the animations (like a sad person like me) you'll see the older one looked much better animation wise.

  • Chaddad2169Chaddad2169 Member Posts: 748

    Play the video at 0.25x speed, you'll realise the killer didn't even start lunging until Quentin was already 3/4 way through the animation

  • OnomoOnomo Member Posts: 20

    You can tell a lot of people didn't play before these momentum changes. They bring up these nonsensical excuses as to why it SHOULD have hit.

    All you can do is laugh really. No one asked for the nerf, but I doubt the developers will revert it back lmao

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