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The Gen Rush

Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

I've noticed that survivors are focusing more than ever on gens. Even injured, they hit gens. I can't say I blame them. I'm afraid we will push them more and more to only focusing on gens. I've noticed less who try to get you to chase. I think the constant nerfs of healing, and second chance perks is pushing survivors to hit gens asap and get out.

Why try to distract the killer when healing and second chance perks are fading more and more. Add to that the ever-fading usefulness of stealth perks and you have less reason to risk it for the biscuit. It's not a good thing in the long run. We have to stop looking at nerfs, and look at buffs or workarounds for killer issues. Maybe buffing killer opportunities as opposed to nerfing second chance perks?


I think it's a conversation worth having.

Comments

  • Chaotic_RiddleChaotic_Riddle Member Posts: 1,922

    I mean, with it being their main objective and practically only objective, there isn’t anyone to blame for this. You could SAY it’s the Dev’s fault, but when it comes to balancing and trying to make the game stable, they shouldn’t be blamed. I think as long as we continue to discuss the topic of secondary objectives, then perhaps maybe the Devs will look into adding more into the game for Survivors and Killers to do.

  • darktrixdarktrix Member Posts: 1,789

    Well with each killer adding more chances to get exposed or aura read or subverting (on top of nerfing) whatever means the survivors have to defend themselves like pallets, vaults, healing, etc.; they have to finish gens or progress them as far as they can quickly to have a good chance at escape. This is just survivors 'adapting'.

    Gens are life.

  • ReddRedd Member Posts: 826

    This is something inevitable that’s been slowly happening forever. All the survivor things that got nerfed deserved and needed it. The truth of the matter is that the game is and has mostly been about how much time survivors waste. 4 perkless sirvivors can still triple escape against 14 killers without much issue lol.

  • BunnyTheHuttBunnyTheHutt Member Posts: 1,773

    The real issue isn't second chance perks being nerfed, since Unbreakable just got a massive buff in 3.0.0, I think its an issue of what else are they gonna do? They have only 1 objective, gens and escape. Sometimes do dull totems too avoid noed, but it never matters in the end. Their needs too be more objectives in the game too make it longer, and stealth perks should be buffed and not nerfed anymore then they are.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    @Chaotic_Riddle I agree.

    I also agree with some of what the others have said too. I am just wondering if nerfing is the right avenue. In order to create balance, you can't just nerf, nerf, and nerf some more. There are other ways. For example, a potential work-around for MoM would have been to allow killers to have a built-in chance to critical hit, thus cutting through MoM and BT type perks. Would not always work, but for every perk in a match like BT or MoM, the killer's chance increases by X%. (That may not be the best example, but it is a base idea. There are ways around problems that don't include nerfs.)

  • ReddRedd Member Posts: 826

    Clarification: against any killer that isn’t nurse or spirit. The game has 16 killers atm

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,788

    I still think that just having more steps to completing generators will fail to address the actual problem of gen rush. Since ultimately the issue is that Survivors have no other strategies but to optimize for speed.

    Take hook sabotogeing for example, back before hooks respawned that is.

    Taking the time to remove all of the hooks was an effective strategy, and executing it is NOT an example of gen rushing, the Killer has enough time to go after survivors doing this strategy, however a successful execution of the strat would make it really hard for him to capitalize of the extra time making the strategy a very good idea.

    Here is an example of what I mean for a secondary objective:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/67808/mid-match-upgrading-idea-v2-totem-based-secondary-objective/p1?new=1

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 9,599
  • ReddRedd Member Posts: 826

    sorry but no. Any perk that gives a free health state with no downside or counterplay that all survivors can run deserves a major nerf

  • BunnyTheHuttBunnyTheHutt Member Posts: 1,773

    Play TF2 and you will understand why this is a horrid idea. I get what you are saying, but no. No random Crits.

  • martin27martin27 Member Posts: 696

    Not a popular opinion but i'm going to throw this out there, sometimes survivors are getting nerfed because some people will abuse the tools they're given i.e. survivors are given the ability to sabotage hooks and some survivors went round during special events solely with the purpose to sabotage the event hooks for the killer.

  • xllxENIGMAxllxxllxENIGMAxllx Member Posts: 923

    If we take play with your food this is a great perk to increase what most killers lacks. SPEED! but the condition is way too demanding plus you lose the stacks by swinging. If the condition would be the same as STBFL then this perk would be godly.

    Nurse is the only killer who can actually counter gen rush. Billy is map based but you can still lose against potatoes with streetwise and purple toolboxes.

    Plus every second chance perks is a time waster on some killers it's an overkill. DH can easily be countered but if they're near pallet/window by chance they can probably vault/drop a pallet/window.

    Devs really need to look at balance at red ranks. It's clearly not great.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    I'm wary of adding more steps. I fear that will cause half the ranks in the game to become even more lopsided than they are now. It will also discourage new players when they get stomped already without the extra steps. There has to be another way. We need new people to be attracted to the game, or the population goes stagnant. Extra steps will just be discouraging. I played survivor this week for the first time in months and the amount of self-admitted smurf accounts was alarming. These new people playing were getting destroyed. Bad for business. Extra steps will only make this worse.

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,611

    Not healing should be more dangerous.

    Right now, against most killers, getting healed wastes 16s out of each survivor when it's one person healing another. If you're not on a dead zone, with one health state you should be able to stall for... 30 seconds maybe? Assuming average survivor, average setup, decent killer, not taking into account BS setups. Taking into account 10 seconds-ish for the killer to pick you up and hook you, that's half a gen for each other member of the team.

    Now take into account DS, which gives you another safe-ish minute of non healing after being unhooked. Now factor in Adrenaline. Dead Hard is the most used exhaustion perk at high ranks, and it helps a ton at getting to another loop before the killer downs you. The truth is, for competent survivors, it's rarely worth it to heal against any loopable killer. If staying injured was such a problem, Plague would be top tier.

    I don't know how they can do it, but staying injured should be more dangerous against killers that aren't Nurse, Spirit, Hag or Huntress (and now Ghostface too, it's dangerous to stay injured against him). Those are the only ones I consistently heal against, and the ones I see other players healing against the most. Against any other killer it's generally worth the risk to stay injured all game, pop all gens and wait for Adrenaline which almost everybody runs anyway.

  • OpenYoureyesOpenYoureyes Member Posts: 111

    Average killer is the 1-hit-down type of killer.

    There is no reason to go for a chase or do anything else apart of what devs want us to do: do gen faster and make the game shorter (they added end-game for that, no?).

    Sorry, but the path is clear and there is no signal of any change of direction.

    It's only going to get worse.

    See you in the fog.

  • martin27martin27 Member Posts: 696

    Gonna throw this out there, add extra objectives the higher the rank you climb. Also gonna throw this out there, lock swf behind a higher ranking. Makes things easier for new people on both sides. Also there shouldn't be second chance perks when you can a second and third chance on the hook, and killers shouldn't be allowed to rob you of that chance with camping.

  • ReddRedd Member Posts: 826

    Echoing above sentiments; the main thing they could do to slow down high rank games without punishing low ranks would be to give you a big action speed penalty to gens for staying injured. If people had to heal then games would slow down a lot. Low ranks always heal anyways so doesn’t effect them.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    @martin27 I liked the first part of your idea there. I'm not big on eliminating 2nd chance perks. Those don't bother me that much. The old DS was rough when facing 4 survivors with it. MoM can be rough with a coordinated group running MoM, DH, Adrenaline together. I think it would better if each perk had a point value and you could only take X value with you based on prestige. So, P1 survivor can take 75 points worth of perks. P2 100, P3 125. Make second chance perks expensive so they can't be so easily stacked.

  • darktrixdarktrix Member Posts: 1,789
    edited June 2019

    So getting punished for raising in rank? And there are no high rank games, with this matchmaking it is very common to get a mix of red, purple and green ranks in the same game. You would have to apply that individually meaning punished for ranking up. Even more incentive to de-rank.

    The nerf in healing that killers wanted resulted in people just rushing the gens instead. They even created a killer (plague) that turns every round into a no mither no heal round. Original Legion was same way - though there is reason to heal against him now.

  • ReddRedd Member Posts: 826

    No. Just punished for being injured at any rank. This effects higher ranks more bc they currently forego healing more.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    @darktrix It is not being punished for raising in rank. Higher rank is higher difficulty. Many killers are not overly viable at high rank because survivors are so much more coordinated and can use abilities to the the optimal level. Therefore, increasing the difficulty would mean more variety in killers as well.

  • martin27martin27 Member Posts: 696

    @Warlock_2020 that's just my personal opinion about those perks and i wouldn't never say they should be removed. The nerf for DS never applied to me, but MoM did need a serious nerf

  • darktrixdarktrix Member Posts: 1,789

    I just don't like the idea of being the only red survivor in a team of greens and having to do all the gens anyway against a red nurse or billy who won't stop playing those killers just because I happen to be a little slower doing a gen now. I won't hold my breath on variety.

  • LCGasterLCGaster Member Posts: 3,154

    Buffing killer opportunities? What does that even mean?

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    Well, build in a few things. When the killer has been hit with a flashlight blind X times in a match, it begins to become less effective. You lower the stun by a % equal to the amount of battery that's been used. Make some perks that are never really used part of the base package or an option to have a steady power. Such as Monstrous Shrine, Overwhelming Presence, Hangman, Predator, Territorial Imperative, etc. Just ideas.

  • xllxENIGMAxllxxllxENIGMAxllx Member Posts: 923

    I think there is three things that bring a lot of unbalance.

    1. Gens being scattered way too much. On low pressure killers (Mid-tier?) patrolling gens when the middle ones is done.
    2. Second chance perks is a big time waster and require no skill.
    3. Too much pallets or at least too much safe pallets/windows. Loops are too powerful on most maps right now.

    Nurse and Billy should get a different RNG to balance correctly because these change will buff them indirectly.

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