Looping doesn't necessarily have to be toxic if done in moderation, most survivors will take looping to the extreme. Where yes it starts to become toxic behaviours and game breaking.
Firstly out of 16 killers there's maybe like 3 that can beat looping straight up.
Secondly there are some areas in some maps where it's impossible to close the loop and they can do infinitely.
Thirdly there was a glitch that was exploited where survivors could still vault through blocked up windows creating new infinite looping points.
Lastly when you climb higher in the ranks you'll get into games where all 4 survivors will a) be masters at looping or b) run to the infinite looping points constantly
I will sometimes do a bit of light looping but will only take it to the extremes when killers do the same with their tunnelling/camping
They were able to stall the killer for so long because for one they were playing Leatherface I'd put him down with Freddy and also because of Exhaustion it wasn't nerfed yet this meant that he could be mindless and take risks that you can't take now he wasn't that good of a looper as you said. As for pallet looping not taking skill what does take skill in this game? Most killers are easy to pick up and even the harder ones are also mechanically easy skill more lies in fundamentals like knowing when to give up a chase and knowing how to pressure survivors in certain situations. Same with survivor knowing what pallets to drop and what pallets to not drop to help out your team knowing to not rush a hook. Survivor doesn't take as much skill as Killer but Mechanically most stuff doesn't take that much skill on both sides. Looping being in exploit? If looping didn't exist most killers would be called OP the way balance worked would be entirely different. Nobody likes looping that much don't get me wrong but the only other mechanic is really stealth and the amount of tracking perks there are currently makes that hard and top on that looping is more efficient than stealth play.
@Acromio you are so spot on about this! And you would add that both survivors and devs are aware that this an exploit but the devs are too afraid to nerf it.
But you can see how the devs are desperate about it, look how many killers they tried to create to counter looping,: huntress, Clown, spirit, plague all designed to try desperately to reduce looping.
It is such a problem in dbd that the only killers who are really strong have ways to seal with looping and have map pressure.
Think about hag, nurse, or spirit.
Survivors are responsible for this because they want to feel the hero of the story, "I'll take the aggro", it makes you feel like the protagonist of a film where you can defeat the evil enemy.
But this is unacceptable in a team based game where 1/4 of a team shoukd NEVER be able to match the single team member in a 1 vs 1.
With looking gone we could finally balance all killers and remove nonsense like omega blinks and insta saws
Survivors do need a way to combat tunnelling and camping, but all 3 aren't being used as tools for a strategy they are being abused and should be taken out of the game or fixed so they can't be abused.
I'm not a fan of looping, but the game gives no any other reliable means to defend yourself. Stealth is laughable (getting more so with every update along with some killers will adjust their graphics to make finding survivors even easier) and mind games/losing the killer need some degree of luck to work with scratchmarks/blood/ever louder grunts present.
However eliminating looping and having the slaughterfest that follows until the devs figure out how to balance killers in response, will result in a literal die off of the survivor population. They have written themselves into a corner.
Stealth playing isn't really rewarded in this game, but i'd rather lose to good survivors being stealthy then lose to those who abuse how broken looping can be.
Looping is very powerful when done by experienced survivors.
Many of the killers simply lack the power to effectively combat looping.
In short, most killers will get dunked on by good survivors.
Tunneling must also go, like a 60 seconds entity immunity, which expires if you start doing another gen, unhook a survivor etc
With looping gone, tunneling must go.
Yes at this point the situation is grim.
The devs didn't contemplate running in circles when the game was made, once this became a thing they weren't quick enough to remove it and nerfed killers accordingly
Camping, tunnelling or looping don't have to go they just need to be rework so they can't be abused to be game breaking or toxic.
Camping someone to death in like 90 seconds at the beginning because they were unlucky enough to start right next to the killer vs camping a hook once all gens are done.
Tunnelling the person recently off the hook when the other 3 are right there vs tunnelling someone who has opted in for an aggressive play style.
Looping a few times to find the perfect time to drop the pallet and break away to hide vs going to a place where you know it's physically impossible for the killer to catch and refusing to leave.
There are legit strategy to all 3 if people don't abuse the mechanic they have. Otherwise the only other option is complete removal from the game.
I would leave camping out of this because it's a losing strategy.
OK for a complete rework, I simply think every survivor should go for a chase with the killer each game, long nice games with two hooks each and no toxic bs like looping or tunnelling, insta heals or mori.
Basically undo the toxicity completely, undo the trash that ochido and noob3 brought in
Make it so you can't camp on the first hook, 15 min wait then immediately camped to death because of bad luck is cruel. I've never had too much trouble with mori's or insta heals
Tbh I wouldn't oppose a survivor not dying until the second hook. First hook is just preparing for the entity, then you get sixty second immunity after unhooking to leave and heal, nothing else allowed or you lose the immunity.
With looping basically gone so many things can be addressed to grant a good time to all the five people in the trial
I say don't remove looping... Simply buff killers to actually make them threatening. I like to use Wraith for an example.
No slowdown on UNCLOAK. I'm perfectly fine with the removal of the speed burst in this case. This buff alone would make Wraith a threat. He can use this to mind game in a Chase.
Survivors have only themselves to blame for that, as I've already explained multiple times in multiple threads.
But u also gotta consider how the killers have steered the game both parties have had equal input, infact i feel as if killer is currently really strong. Like killers got the pallet amount reduced, who do u think nerfed ds? Endgame definetly killer, the devs do listen to their community, sometimes to much.
But take out loops how will the game go? Youll spend longer loading for the game then playing.
But mechanics like looping is discovered by surv needing a way to survive, surv looks for anew mechanic cause the killer is so powerful and they need to find a way to counteract him, where there is action there is cause.
As is the goal of the surv is to survive.
You didn't read what we said until this point:
1 remove looping
2 you create a rule called "the entity wants blood!" which basically means you cannot die on first hook (first hook camping gone)
3 you get a 60 seconds immunity to leave the area and heal after being unhooked, if you heal another survivor, unhook, work on a gen you lose the immunity(tunnelling basically gone)
4 you remove insta heals
5 you remove moris and just give the killer an option to mori on the last hook
Then you balance everything on this new ruleset and remove op stuff like omega blinks, prayers bead etc
The whole idea is to remove toxicity from the game and undo all of the damage that ochido and noob3 did to this community by promoting toxicity and BM
With all due respect people would leave because of this, many people including on survivor and killer side. Remove looping? How would you even do such a thing? It would be bad for the game because many people play the game for a chase aspect what you can do though is make looping less of a problem for killers by reworking maps and making less safe pallets that's the route that seems fair. The removal of tunneling would also be quite catastrophic limiting how people want to play. And the removal of all "OP addons" many people wouldn't like that either. Removing looping would change the balance of the game in such a way where people would call killers OP and every killer would most likely become m1 simulator then the game would die off.
mehh poor wraith mains ,
Once again you're wrong. The devs don't listen to killers. They never did, and they probably never will.
You are making many assumptions based on your opinion not actual facts, maybe the game without looping and all the toxic stuff I mentioned would be much bigger.
The DBD community is notoriously known for being toxic and not everybody is comfortable with being bullied.
What other video game can you think of where pvp could be as stressful as playing killer in dbd? I don't know any and I game online since dial up in 2002 with Ultima online.
With that said, I also agree on the fact that looping had to be killed when it started to become a thing and now some people would be annoyed by it, at the same time survivors need to understand that in a 4 vs 1 game NOBODY can be the hero and verse the power role or the game is unbalanced.
And I know this very well since I used the have a youtube channel ONLY on bullying and killing Jason on f13 and after playing dbd I realised how toxic I was.
Also, I specified that killers will be nerfed accordingly once looping is gone, once you remove the biggest source of unbalance you can certainly improve the game.
Also I never said you won't have chases in my version of the game, you would actually have shorter chases but ALL SURVIVORS will take a ride with the killer.
More chases for everyone rather than what could happen now when 1 survivor runs the killer 3-4 gens and the other just m1 the whole match.
It is a win win for everybody but the Loopy Loopers who cannot accept their toy being taken away like it should.
Regardless though, I am sure nothing of this would happen because the company is scared to upset survivors, so dream on
Spirit and hag are unloopable if they use their power right.
I suppose you have proof?
Yes. The game itself.
Removed pallet vacuum, DS,MoM,healing and Blendette nerfed. You’re lying to yourself if you think they only listen to one side.
Welcome to the Fog! :)
Every PVP game is toxic Call Of Duty games for example do you know how many times people threaten to boot you offline swat you ect in those games? What about Dark Souls pvp you get plenty of hatemail in dark souls as well. World Of Warcraft I used to be high rated in that game especially in Legion and sometimes you get people that will tell you to [BAD WORD] and other stuff. This game is no different it will have a toxic community like all pvp games. I could go on and on about people being toxic in PVP games. I don't agree with people that are toxic but you can't stop them either. The game you are envisioning wouldn't be Dead By Daylight at that point. Stealth would need to become viable because of the short chases. Plus Nerfing every killer to compensate for looping being gone would take so much time most killers wouldn't even have a power. How to fix Dead By Daylight in my opinion: Make all killers viable, Fix the genrush issue by adding a second objective rework maps because map design is a current issue make more pallets unsafe and mindgamable
Well, devs have said that certain maps will be getting reworks, Badham is the first with the Freddy Rework. So Haddonfield will hopefully be on that list.
You start the match, hungry for a win.
Your Hex: Ruin, designed to buy you match time, is destroyed about 20 seconds into the game, you've just completely lost one of your perk slots.
You find a survivor, immediately, they run to a pallet, the looping begins. This survivor knows how many loops they can do before they are forced to drop the pallet.
They drop the pallet, you cannot mindgame them, as the majority of pallets are safe, you are forced to destroy the pallet.
The same survivor, knows exactly where the next pallet is, and the cycle continues.
You land a hit, things are getting tough for the survivor, one shot and they go down. 2 generators have already been done, which means if the survivors have split up; the last 3 will complete at roughly the same time.
The survivor your chasing knows that on most maps there are 2 locations that have VERY safe loops, the killer shack and another specific part of the map (E.g. the asylum).
If you ignore this survivor, you have just accomplished nothing. That survivor knows you have given up and will heal, before finding a generator.
Before you know it, all the generators are completed and there's a survivor at each of the exit gates.
Welcome, to red rank games.
I played WoW for years and it isn't comparable to DBD, the amount of hatred and disrespect between killers and survivors, the amount of mean behaviours just to be mean is absolutely disgusting in dbd. What the hell is wrong with people to bring mori, camp and tunnel or gen rush during an event , an occasion to celebrate? it's pure madness.
With that said, your solution would be ok for me, not ideal but ok.
As long as we address the single most important problem of DBD which is the disparity of power between a killer and a single survivor due to looping I can accept that.
I would do it my way because looping was never intended to be part of the game, the game was designed with lots of pallets for survivors to try and reach the next pallet in a desperate run against time.
It was never meant to fell safe, it was never meant to have survivors exploiting their smaller hitboxes to counter the killer's higher speed.
And you can see the desperation of the devs regarding looping: They reworked some parts of the maps, they added entity vault blocks, they added bloodlust, they made killers SPECIFICALLY designed to desperately stop looping.
Clown, spirit, legion and plague were all designed with the specific goal of stopping looping, they even added perks against looping because everyone but the Loopy Loopers realise how much of a problem looping is in DBD.
If all chases are shorter, less than a minute let's say but you cannot die on the first hook and you have a tunnelling limited immunity, the games will not be shorter than now.
I have a match on my channel at rank 10 which ends in 3.35 minutes... how is that ok? one survivors looped the killer and we all just did gens.
And we can adjust the length of the gens, add second objectives, there are plenty of things that can be done, but the priority is to try and give everybody a good time while playing dbd.
With that said, it is way more possible that things will go the direction that you are envisioning because what I would like would create a massive dung storm which I don't think bhvr is ready to take.
One thing for certain is that, they will be SO careful in their next games to avoid the equivalent of looping and if it does happen I am fully sure they will kill it right away, in a similar way the killed mom before it became too much of an issue