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Does BHVR have a survivor bias, in your opinion?

VampyVampy Member Posts: 67

(preface: I HAVE NEVER PLAYED SURVIVOR in any of the time I've played.. so I have some bias)

I have a little more than 400 hours in the game, been up to rank 2, and have a prestige II wraith from launch. I quit for a couple of years because of the disconnects and overall lack of direction the game had back then (just 3 killers.. things became stale pretty fast)

I've noticed Mori was nerfed so you have to hook first before being able to execute someone.. which i guess is fine. It was a solid way to immediately remove someone who was playing toxic by simply bringing in the green mori and downing them.. and many many other changes that have happened for better or worse over the years


but on to more current things...

Sprint burst is still broken and can be basically used without actually using it, in almost all of my games people are running it and abusing it nonstop.

Enduring stealth nerfed when they said it was "buffed"

Legion and Pig nerfed for no reason ... they were never more than mid tier killers. Freddy rework appears like its also going to be a nerf, but we will see how that goes.

Killers have to blow through millions of bloodpoints to keep playing with yellow addons, even then you will run dry on a lot of the M1 killers who desperately need QOL buffs


and then ... Survivors are getting a very unneeded BP buff for no reason, they just have to go in naked to be good (looking at you depip squad) so long as you understand the basic fundamentals of the game

Killers get nerfed constantly, and survivors just kinda.. slowly become the gods they are...

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Comments

  • Boosted_DwightBoosted_Dwight Member, Trusted Posts: 2,604

    I don't they're survivor biased but I do think they're too scared to make anymore viable killers in fear of causing survivors to jump ship. I think they believe if they make any killer(s) powerful they have the risk of losing a chunk of the survivor player base.

  • DBDbuildsYTDBDbuildsYT Member Posts: 1,042

    Maybe biased isn't the correct way to define them, but yes survivors are certainly more important than killers in the grand scheme of things.

    The biggest problem is that they do anything they can to hinder killers and make it difficult to play them.

    We even used to have a slightly different and more functional first person camera which was changed with the graphic update

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 9,470

    Yes/

  • fluffymareepfluffymareep Member Posts: 634

    SB is broken due to a bug. That would be like survivor mains pretending the Legion bug awhile back was intended.

    Enduring is bugged.

    Legion got a rework. They now how base movement speed and still can use their power to provide pressure, quickly injure fully healed, catch up to people, and find people. With the Freddy rework, you literally don't have to wait anymore to smack people. His power was basically telling people "I'm gonna smack you!" and then attempting to smack. It's like you guys don't know what "nerf" means.

    Killer add-ons work differently than survivor items. You can't just stop using your add-on mid-game. It lasts for the game's entirity. Survivors also can't hit the add-on out of your hands and the add-ons work a lot longer than survivor items. Even with that said, I think there should be ways to aquire another add-on or to keep your add-on after game.

    The BP buff was in response to slower lobby times due to less survivors wanting to join a lobby just to get 10~17k while playing killer will reliably get you 17~28k. This means less people playing survivor during BP events and less playing survivor while farming BP. Depip squad happened so long ago. Maybe look to someone else? One nice thing about survivor is that there's three other survivors and you may go unnoticed. One bad thing about survivor is that it's a team game. People might farm you. You may be tunneled and killed, sandbagged. Literally had a game earlier where a survivor was going out of her way to block people so that they got hit. Another game where I second staged because the person nearest to me finished the generator and ran away. It's largely unreliably to actually survive and get points, but it's still possible to get out if the killer happens to be focusing someone down. Likewise, you can go without perks, but you take away some things you can do for yourself. Bond shows you where people are. Iron Will quiets your grunts of pain, allowing you to stealth while injured and possibly lose the killer. Playing without perks is by no means "basic" and if you really think it is, you should try playing survivor.

    Survivors are getting nerfed just as much if not more. It isn't nearly as bad as it once was.

  • se05239se05239 Member Posts: 3,920

    YES.

  • JawsIsTheNextKillerJawsIsTheNextKiller Member Posts: 1,754

    I think it is more of a lack of understanding of the balance of the game. The game is probably balanced roughly as it should be at ranks 10-15 where top tier killers are played by players that haven't masterered their power and SWFs are less likely to be optimally coordinated.

    Where it falls down is at higher ranks where the top tier killers are probably too powerful against a team of solos but in turn will be destroyed by an SWF with comms, toolboxes and instaheals.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    It feels like it yes, it really does.

    Some of the changes they make don't seem intentional but more of a domino effect of changes that lead to other changes to make things smoother. For example Legion has Deep Wounds that's basically BT so they called that the DW effect and have them function the same way and when Legion's DW was changed BT was changed as well so that it all goes together. That wasn't an intentional planned change for BT it was just something that came with it.

    Then there are things like Ghostface's Detection area being increased to 4 meters on each side. No one wanted this and everyone says it has hurt his viability, we all said he was fine and that Survivors needed to practice, me included since I play both. But the Devs ignored us and did it anyway hurting the new Killer and his viability to be top tier so that Survivors could counter him easier. Things like that happen a lot, some of it is legit balance changes take some and give some in other places but then there just feels like a lot of the changes are made so that Killers don't have the power they need, which is the exact opposite of an asymmetrical game, which this is...right?

  • JdsgamesJdsgames Member Posts: 1,109

    No, I think there is beyond too many conflicting opinions.

    Nurse is balance / Nurse is op

    Gen times are fine / Survivors need second objective

    Adrenaline is balanced / Adrenaline needs a nerf

    NOED OP / Noed rewards survivor laziness.

  • The_TrapperThe_Trapper Member Posts: 186

    It definitely feels like it.

  • oxygenoxygen Member Posts: 1,403
    edited July 2019

    There's no intentional bias, it's just a game where balancing for any given skill group will make it feel imbalanced to the others. It's just how it is with assymetrical games, like with how in L4D Versus the Survivors were quite strong and they had to come up with their own set of rules (confogl) for truly competitive purposes. As Gcarrara said DBD also allows players to choose what they want to play, and therefore allows for "maining" which leads to different perspectives than a game where you end up playing both no matter what.

    EDIT: Dicussing WHO they should balance around does make sense though, but in the long run I feel that evening the SWF-Solo gap, buffing the killers that need it and going from there will be healthier than just balancing the game around optimal 4man death squads vs 5000 hour ebony mori omegablink nurse though.

    Handling bugs/exploits isn't as simple as just removing them immediately, pushing a patch isn't that easy and if something is truly so incredibly wrong that it HAS to be done it might end up rushed and lead to new unforeseen bugs. Not to mention the difference between PC and consoles when it comes to getting new content pushed out to the users.

    And on the Moris, Legion getting changed "for no reason" and bloodpoints... really? Mori 1.0 was incredibly silly, and bringing up punishing toxic survivors is no better than saying instaheals are fine because you could be against a nurse or something. Legion could do things that had absolutely no place in the game ("moonwalking"). You can discuss the change they recieved, but there was a very good reason they saw a change that certainly did decrease the lethality of their power. And for bloodpoints... I feel you're not supposed to be able to run the same add-ons every game, and it's not like survivors escape every game either. The Survival point category is really bad atm as well as 99% of the time it's just escaping, self-caring and hitting DS/wiggling out iirc?

  • I_Be_Pro_FunI_Be_Pro_Fun Member Posts: 36

    I play both sides in this game, survivors and killers. Though I am better at killer, because it is easier to be better at killer. I don't think survivors are favorited, most of the time. Though, when the options are to buff an annoying yet weak killer, it goes to the survivor. When it is time to nerf a strong survivor ability, it is either a minimal downfall or it takes a year longer than it should.

    I'm not refering to MoM. I'm talking more like DS. Yes, the Killer's perks are generally more powerful. But that is because a killer has a quarter of what the survivor team has. Even then, survivors have many more defenses and escape perks. Windows, pallets, SB, DH, DS, flashlights, fire crackers, swapping out with a buddy... Etc etc.

    I know that a smart killler willl always best cocky survivors. I always know that talented survivors will best lazy killlers. But really, the need to nerf a killer or not should not be made in week one of public play, or not be based off if a killer is annoying or not.

    Legion, when on the recieving end, is a massive annoyance. His Killer Instinct can get you found and put into DW/BT effect, and most see that as a massive setback. But really, even before his massive nerfs, he was weaker than the doctor. The doctor could do everything Legion did, but without even knowing the survivors were there in the first place, and with only a tiny movement speed setback that is minimal. Legion's ability has so many downfalls people ignore, because if they didnt, it would be annoying to face him again. Stun, no scratch marks, messed up hearing, no aura's until you hit somebody, no notifications, if you miss your attack you stun and lose your entire ability. You have to wait for it to recharge entirely before use. Activating lets you move faster and vault... But it hinders every other aspect of being a killer.

    This turned into kind of a rant at the end, I apologize. But you can see what I mean. A killer's ability shouldn't be nerfed because their abilitity is annoying. Perks shouldn't be nerfed because they are annoying. But they are. And when they are nerfed because of annoyance, it is almost always in Survivor's favor

  • ShrekIsHotShrekIsHot Member Posts: 3,130

    I'm gonna ignore the bias not for any reason except a ton of people already spoke their mind already and I'm not too concerned about that topic right now.


    You should play Survivor, trust me when I say you play better as a Killer when you get the Survivor mindset, easier to predict, regardless of hours.

  • KillermainBTWm8KillermainBTWm8 Member Posts: 4,193

    No they aren't biased but the problem is most players haven't even reached below rank 10 this means that most survivors think Killers are OP because they aren't skilled as people in red ranks which makes it hard for the Devs to balance the game. The game is way more balanced for killers then it used to be though nobody can deny that.

  • oxygenoxygen Member Posts: 1,403
    edited July 2019

    This is also a very good point. Playing survivor makes you a better killer, just like playing killer makes you a better survivor. Know your enemy and all that.

  • TheEndOfSolaceTheEndOfSolace Member Posts: 16

    Your first bit was right but the rest was trash. Its literally us vs them that's the point ofthegame and they are survivor biased. Look at how long it takes them to ever nerf a survivor vs killers getting nerfed every other day. MoM was literally the new DS bc survivors got a second chance for the killer doing well. Point being they care more about survivors getting an easy win than true balance. I play both sides so I'm pretty unbiased.

  • KillermainBTWm8KillermainBTWm8 Member Posts: 4,193

    This makes me lol imagine wanting a us vs them mentality balance ain't perfect but if you think that they are still buffing survivors then that is funny they just suck at coding and it nerfs both sides. The "I play both sides" was the biggest meme I have seen recently. Especially after stating you support a us vs them mentality lul.

  • PickCollinsPickCollins Member Posts: 495
    edited July 2019

    A lot of these statements are just full of [BAD WORD] and shortsighted. Exhaustion perks were nerfed a long time ago. Window vaulting was just [BAD WORD] 8 ways to Sunday by the last change to fast vaults. Pallet spawns were nerfed. D strike was nerfed so hard it needed buffed the next patch. Mettle of Man was just gutted into uselessness. Legions rework was considered a buff by anyone who didn't abuse his previous incarnation. Freddy's rework is considered a buff since it actually GIVES him a power. Pigs nerf was meant to address an issue of Pig's banking on their traps for endgame, which the devs said isn't what the traps were intended to.

    Enduring was changed so that killers couldn't use it to negate D strike, giving them an opportunity to tunnel, which D strike is one of the few perks designed to counter it.

    Killers more often than not get preferential treatment from the devs. Saying otherwise isn't a difference of opinion, it's just ignorant.

  • oxygenoxygen Member Posts: 1,403

    There's a difference between an us-vs-them mentality in game (duh, it's a competitive game with winners and losers) and taking it out of the game and into balance discussions. It's not a zero-sum game where a buff to one side automatically comes with a direct nerf to the other, especially not when it's just bloodpoint generation or something.

  • DemonDaddyDemonDaddy Member Posts: 1,486

    I don't think its a side bias, but they do favor/shelter noobs a little to much that it effects the more experienced players.

  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Member Posts: 636

    I define 'bias' to mean "being in denial, ignorant or attempting to conceal a favour or leaning towards something".

    The devs do not need to know they are biased for it to be the case, as long as;

    1. They dismiss any suggestion of it
    2. It can be demonstrated to a reasonable degree that they are biased

    I think both conditions are met by the history of the game and their way of responding to feedback. I don't necessarily share the same standards with others who believe the devs are biased though.

    The strongest case that can be made for it is not any individual change to the game or interaction they have had with the playerbase, or even a comprehensive list of them. It's the differences in standards which the devs apply across the board, throughout the life of the game.

  • MrPacoMrPaco Member Posts: 5
    edited July 2019

    Yes

    80% of their playerbase plays survivor, they don't want to mess with them, that's why they also caved with SWF and they refuse to do anything about it.

  • KazrotKazrot Member Posts: 4

    Its a lot easier to start out and be a good killer rather than survivor. Killers dont need any practical skills to win. Just use your eyes.

    Survivors perks make going up against good killers when you are a bad survivor doable. You can actually manage. The specific balance of things I wont get into. But my point being if you take away the things that are helping survivors win and giving bad players a chance then they will just stop playing. Then who will you kill?

    Youll always need sheep to slaughter.

  • thekiller490490thekiller490490 Member Posts: 1,147

    Yes. Killers are kept in check with their powers and perks while keys and insta heals remain incredibly powerful.

  • SpaceCoconutSpaceCoconut Member Posts: 1,525

    I honestly think that they BELIEVE that they aren't biased and are completely blind or indifferent to the deeper problems that cause most of the issues all players have with dbd.

    I also think that it might be too late to change anything.

    Their design philosophy has painted them into a corner by using perks as bandaid fixes to core problems. If they fix those core problems, many perks and powers will need to be revamped and changed. The cost effectiveness of that kind of change won't be something they'd be willing to do for the players.

    But they'll make damn sure the battlepass works perfectly when it comes out and if doesn't, it'll be fixed within days.

    /rant

    tldr; Yes they are, but they don't know it.

  • feechimafeechima Member Posts: 523
    edited July 2019

    If you used to play the game since the beginning how can you have missed all the ways it's gotten easier for killers.

    1.) Less pallets

    2.) Closing infinite loops down

    3) Removal of pallet vacuum

    4.) Nerf to Vaulting

    5.) Exhaustion nerf

    6.) MoM nerfed

    7.) Buff to killers like Wraith, Trapper, slight buff to Spirit, Huntress and now total Freddy rework

    8.) Nerf to gen cooperation

    9.)Nerf to Leader

    10.) Hatch can be closed now

    11.) EGC

    12.) Loud/additional survivor sounds including louder footfalls to make them easier to track

    I could go on.... And by saying this I'm not saying its Killer-sided. It's no one-sided. They are attempting to balance the game. Right now it is just in the killer's favor more often than not, but the tide may turn.

  • HaraakHaraak Member Posts: 80

    And this game is still highly survivor side.


    Well, in my opinion, they have not idea what they are doing. Other devs from other games have a team of high level players helping them to balance the game. Look at the Freddie block addons, furtive chase or legion. They do things that they think that will be cool for the game but any player above rank 10 can tell that most of them are BS. More than half of the killer pool is weak and the same goes for the survivor perks.

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