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Secondary Survivor Objective: Bringing Fun Back! (UPDATED)

NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 7,294
edited July 2019 in General Discussions
Prologue


As we all know, the game can flash before our eyes if your killer is not tremendously effective at applying pressure, or is not using perks to slow the game down. Therefore, we reach a point in the game where both sides aren't happy such as the killer not having enough time to get hooks, and the survivors are forced to hold M1 for God knows how long.


Base Changes


These changes are needed if we would want a secondary objective:

  • Generators take 60 charges to fully repair, and toolboxes will get nerfed to match their respective charges for the new generator repair time.
  • Generators will spawn further apart from each other.
  • If the killer looks at a generator, they can see how long ago a survivor was last interacting with it.


Introducing Gasoline


Generators cannot be repaired if they have no gasoline, which means survivors are forced to explore the terrain for gas stations. There are 2 gas stations; each of them require the survivor to perform an 8 second animation of the survivor grabbing an empty gas can from a box, and filling it up with the pump. Survivors can see how much gasoline is in their gas can by a red gauge around it; this is exactly like the Spirit's power gauge meter. Each gas station has 3 gas cans, but after the gas can is poured into the generator, the survivor can reuse the gas can as many times as they want by refilling it at a gas station.


Survivors can carry both an item, and a gas can simultaneously, but if they are attacked, the survivor will spill 25% of their gasoline within the gas can; the penalty is doubled when the attack puts them into the dying state. If for some reason a gas can is dropped, dropped gas cans can be seen by all survivors within an unlimited aura-reading range. Pouring gasoline into a generator will be an 8 second animation, and if it's ever interrupted by the killer, the gas can is dropped with whatever gasoline is left in it. Each full gas can will give the generator 30 charges, which means you will be able to repair 30 charges before gas runs out. If there are multiple survivors repairing a generator, gas will be used up faster, but y'all will still repair 30 charges.


Credit to @C3Tooth for the animation

The killer can regress a generator, but only the amount of gas in them at a rate of 0.25c/s. Survivors cannot stop this regression, but it will automatically stop once the amount of gas reaches 0 charges.


Concerns


"Will this actually prolong the game since you buffed generator times for the survivors?"


Since generators require 60 charges to be repaired, and gas cans allow 30 charges in every full pour, you'll need 2 gas cans to fully repair a generator. That's basically around 32 seconds of animations, plus travel time between stations. If you get caught by the killer, and get put into the dying state, which drops your gas can, we are looking at more than 120 seconds to complete a generator - at a worse case scenario. Best case scenario, maybe 100 seconds per generator, if the killer doesn't interfere.


Epilogue


I made this idea because honestly, playing killer is too exhausting when I have to deal with the gen-blitzkrieg in almost every game, and survivor is just not fun anymore when you're holding M1 for majority of the game. This bothered me so much that I'll likely take a long break from the game, but I want to give the developers something to look at to improve their game before I do take a break. Of course if certain numbers are too high or too low, they can be later changed to fit the balance of the game. However, this should give you the general basis of what we desperately need in Dead by Daylight. I love the game, and will always support it, but I don't find it fun anymore, so it's time for me to move on. Perhaps, I'll comeback when I find it fun again, but that will depend on how things go for me.

Post edited by NMCKE on
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Comments

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 1,133

    Since generators require 40 charges to be repaired, and gas cans allow 30 charges in every full pour, you'll need 1 and ⅓ of a gas can to fully repair a generator. That's basically around 32 seconds of animations, plus travel time between stations. If you get caught by the killer, and get put into the dying state, which drops your gas can, we are looking at more than 120 seconds to complete a generator - at a worse case scenario. Best case scenario, maybe 100 seconds per generator, if the killer doesn't interfere.

    I think a survivors carry 50 charge of gas, a gen requires 100 charge, which is 2 full gas carrying. So pretty much any single disrupt will requires 3 times travel of gas getting/filling.


    About the Balance of this idea

    In general:

    If split 80s of fixing gen into: 40s of fixing gen and other action like 10s getting gas (x2 times), 10s filling gas (x2 times). There still requires 80s of M1, but they need more time to run around get/fill gas, which is more fun than M1 for 80s at a single gen. Gen degressing is only happened by survivors fail skill check, not Killers.

    And I think gas leak caused by Killers kicking the gen should not be stopped by gen touching, but it will slowly drops and the gas leaking is only stopped if gas in the gen down to 0%. As said you should fix the gen until the gas depleted then fill more gas; rather than fill more gas while the gas is leaking. (1*)


    For Survivors:

    Its much less dangerous because you're now only sit at a gen for 40sec. The degressing is only gas removed rather than the whole gen progressing if you leave a gen too long. Killers now tend to hit multiple targets to let them drops the gas instead of focus on an injured survivor.


    For Killers:

    Since survivors are now carrying gas (which is visible for Killer to see), they can hit a survivors that carrying gas makes them lose all the gas they're carrying, which pretty much instantly delete their 10sec progressing of getting gas.


    Perks that relate to degressing gen:

    Ruin: Now cause gen consume 100% more gas (requires 4 full gas filling)

    Overcharge: No change.

    Pop goes weasel: instantly 50% gas leaked on kick.

    Surveillance: Get sound noti when a survivors fill gas on a 0% gas of a gen. This will make it easier for Killer to find which gen is started to working on. And counter the gas leaking mechanic (1*) , force survivors to fill gas while it's still leaking.

  • sorrowensorrowen Member Posts: 742

    Ahh that explains all my brutal killer ratings despite getting downs and hooks

  • lindenislindenis Member Posts: 57

    I like it this a lot! They should add this to the game but when they nerf the broken addons of nurse and spirit :)

  • CoffengMinCoffengMin Member Posts: 862

    would it really be fun after 1 hour of having it though?

  • dvsmaldvsmal Member Posts: 6

    franklins

  • dvsmaldvsmal Member Posts: 6

    Mcclean please don't omg

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 7,294

    @Maelstrom10

    Well, if you're always running around trying to find more gasoline, then you'll have a higher chance of running into the killer. At the very least you'll be forced to stealth around the killer because you're visiting more areas of the map.

  • Maelstrom10Maelstrom10 Member Posts: 1,763

    To be honest though we all know what happens when a survivor can't complete there objective. Think corrupt intervention, for the most part they'll just wait in the area until their gen is filled with gasoline by a fellow teammate, or if they do go to find it themselves, If the killers patrolling said area, they'll just leave until later. They won't hang around to be found or risk themselves to go get gasoline, hell you don't see survivors going for fresh gens with the killer around.

    Like I said I'm not against a second objective, I just don't think searching for things to do gens is the right route anymore. If anything we need something to purposefully get the player to try and interact with the killer in order to escape, and gen speeds to be slightly increased perhaps. If it were any other game with a more "slow and deliberate" killer, I'd suggest having to sneak up on them and steal a key to unlock an exit gate, but we all know something like that wouldn't work in dbd. What we need is something that could force ourselves to be caught, currently gens are m1 machines that can lure a killer to our location. We need something to lure us to there location, or to something they can physically protect

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 1,133

    M1 for 80s at 1 place isnt fun. M1 for 80s but running around is, perhap not really fun, but at least better.

    This may be isnt a great idea, but its the easiest way to change the game play.


    What we need is something that could force ourselves to be caught, currently gens are m1 machines that can lure a killer to our location. We need something to lure us to there location, or to something they can physically protect

    Technically...gen & hex are something they physically protect.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    I have some concerns:

    1) It will be harder for the killer to defend gens. A lot would have to get changed around that.

    2) How your suggestion currently works, it will be a big difference whether the survivors are SWF or communicating with each other. It will make the difference in power levels of solos and SWF even bigger.


    That being said, when it comes to my fun as a survivor, I'd also prefer to run/sneak around the map and doing a 2nd objective instead of sitting 80 seconds at a gen.

  • RaidokuRaidoku Member Posts: 69

    TBH I been saying how the hell this game been out for 3 years and only 1 mode that is extremely lazy and kind of feels like the DEVs sat back got paid from those who brought the game and supported them throughout the years and said " eh they got what we gave them" idl why the creators cant be more creative with modes of the game this game could become a titan If it had more....

  • This seems like a good idea, It needs proper balance but its not bad in principle.

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 1,133
    edited July 2019

    1) It will be harder for the killer to defend gens. A lot would have to get changed around that.

    Yes, but a single gen kicking cause fast gas leaking, or a single slash cause gas drop makes survivor have to get gas again. Is the point.

    2 survivors rush a gen? Currently 2 survivors can done a gen around 45sec. If the gen fixing time is downed to 40sec, it would be ~22sec if there are 2 survivors. But the point is both of them have to use 10sec to get gas (image a gas-station only let 1 survivor gets gas at a time), combine 10sec filling gas each (lets say only 1 survivor can fill gas at a time). Then you know the total time is greater than 45sec. This is not mention if there is a gen kick, it will requires the 3rd time gas filling.


    2) How your suggestion currently works, it will be a big difference whether the survivors are SWF or communicating with each other. It will make the difference in power levels of solos and SWF even bigger.

    I agree with this.

    • But seriously I prefer the core game play to be different, than 'new killer, new perks'. I can accept no new perks for a year in exchange of 2nd Objective. It doesnt have to be Get/Fill Gas. But any kind will be appreciated.
  • rharha Member Posts: 154

    As for me I am not bored with current gameplay, at least that’s not why I quit playing survivor. I don’t miss other game modes either. In fact I sometimes think that DbD is so addictive exactly because it is so simple.

    While „holding R1 for 80 seconds“, I keep paying attention to my surroundings and try to keep track of what is happing where in the match, this usually leaves me no time with thinking about whether what I do is boring me.

    I stopped having fun, but that was for a bunch of other reasons. Many of them could probably be „fixed“ easily by SWF but I don’t have any friends who play this game.

    Anyway, not judging any 2nd objective idea or arguing against it, my issue with this post is entirely the „bringing back the fun“ part. It suggests it‘d make playing survivor enjoyable again, but a secondary objective wouldn’t solve a single problem I have with this game when it stopped being fun. That’s all I wanted to say about this.

    (Yes it can be a bit boring if the killer can’t apply pressure effectively, but that‘s often a result of the poor rank system that puts lesser skilled killers against more experienced survivors.)

  • ClogWenchClogWench Member Posts: 2,583

    I went in to this skeptical but honestly yeah I'm into it

  • CoffengMinCoffengMin Member Posts: 862
  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 7,294

    @NoShinyPony

    1.) I agree with your concern.

    Perhaps, when the killer looks at a generator, it will tell the killer how long ago a survivor was interacting with it.


    2.) That's something we cannot fix because of how asymmetrical games work. The minor roles (survivors) will always have an advantage if they can manage to work together as one unit.


    However, we can get close to balancing SWF, but we will never perfectly balance SWF unless we have a completely new game mode for it.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 11,104

    I voted up just cause Survivor is so boring to me lately.

    I don't really care what kind of new objective it is, it's a hell of a lot better than what we got now.

    The numbers on the mechanic can be tweaked once implemented if necessary. (Most likely necessary.)

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    @NMCKE

    Regarding 2):

    It's not that simple. You could adjust your concept so that the difference between solo and SWF would be less significant.

    For example: You suggest that each gas station has one gas can which you need to transport the gas. The survivors lose that gas can when they get downed and have to pick that can up from where they got downed. Only the gas can's previous owner can see the aura of the gas can. These points could get changed so that the difference between solo and SWF wouldn't be that big.

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 1,133

    @NoShinyPony gas can should not be dropped, it should be spilled off and that survivor has to get gas again. Gas can dropped and another survivor can pick it makes SWF & Solo gaps too great.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    @C3Tooth Exactly that's point.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 2,091

    Your idea seems reasonable, although i guess the devs would make disposable randomly spawning cans instead of gas stations (just pick them up and run to a gen)

    But Im split on the regression on generators. Yeah gas is important but you have 20 charges surplus on a second visit, maling regression even worse than before.

    The whole problem that gen tap does stop regression is a seperate but important matter. With your idea, the already weak regression goes even weaker.

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