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Feedback from new players who didn't want to stick around.



  • baronbaron Member Posts: 141

    Camping amd tunneling have been a complaint since the game came out and the devs refuse to do anything to help it. Also overpowered add ons and offerings that further destroys whatever passes for balance in this game will also never change. People complain about it all the time and its always on deaf ears. Your friends are smart.

  • ShapedShaped Member Posts: 5,574

    My post was refering to person who said that finding a game with survivor is faster which is not the case in my experience. You should read before you assume things.

    If you cater the survivors more this game will die surely but go on. Cater to crybabies more.

  • ZertixZertix Member Posts: 122

    I started playing the game with 2 friends during the free sale on PS4 (August/September 2018). We used to spend 10-15 minutes looking for a lobby just to be camped to death, and then repeat. After playing for less than 20 hrs, the camping pushed my friends away from the game and I switched to PC after 100-200 hrs. I am pretty sure that the playerbase would be at least twice as large if camping was not a thing.

    After the recent rank reset, the matchmaking system decided that it is ok for me (as a rank 11 survivor and rank 3 before the reset) to play with rank 18/19 survivors/killers who just bought the game (some of them have less than 20 hrs of gameplay). It was very obvious that they were not having a great time; I felt really bad for them.

    So yeah, the game is not friendly for new players and especially survivors.

  • OnionthingOnionthing Member Posts: 469
    edited July 2019

    (i) BHVR doesn't have the time, personnel or money to monitor and referee every match. Which is what this is starting to boil down too. Programming for something that is situational and player driven is very difficult without changing the entire mechanics of the game.

    (ii) Yes there are some bugs and while I love for a game to not have bugs, most online games that are ever evolving cannot escape them. In order not to have bugs this game would need to never introduce new game mechanics or killers and just focus on cosmetics. That would bore the crud out of me. Every multiplayer game has its bugs, the bigger the company the faster the fixes. BHVR is still pretty small, that's why I cut them so much slack.

    (iii) I agree, which is why I play killer most of the time, easier to solo and and feed blood points to my survivors that way. Again you cant MAKE people "play the right way" this is the curse of online games, and humans as a whole are selfish. Playing even the crappiest of games is always more fun with you friends. (I don't think this game is crappy .. im just saying.)

    (iv) I agree with you there. A tutorial mode would be very NICE to get newbies up to speed. I could have sworn there was one. If there isn't it needs to be added. Another nice thing that some Asian based games add are "preview movies" that demonstrate the perk in action, just a little pre recorded window, nothing intrusive, so people can see how the perk works in real-time. As for the grind. The grind doesnt bother me, but I like grindy games so thats just me.

    (v) For the game to be truly balanced Killers need a fat HP bar (4 times as much as the Survivors) and all the survivors need guns. Remove all perks, remove gens, and turn it into a free for all kill fest. But that's not this game, Survivors are in fact victims, and its hard for people to get into that role. People play games to feel badass, not to feel helpless, but that what the Survivor is supposed to be, helpless in the face of the Entity. As a player you could show them "Toxic Survivor X" video's on you tube to lessen the impact and teach them its funny and fun to tease the guy "with all the power." Perks are an issue yes, but you cant play hard counters in this game when you are constantly trying to instill a sense of fear and dread. Being creative with what you are given is what makes survivor fun (for me.. when I decide to play it.)

    Post edited by Onionthing on
  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 14,162

    Camping is only viable if survivors make it viable. You want tunneling to stop? Buff weaker killers or redesign maps so that they have SOME ability to gain pressure.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,257

    @Onionthing Behaviour employs more than 550 people. I know not everyone there is dedicated to this game specifically, but that is not a small company.

  • OnionthingOnionthing Member Posts: 469

    Fair enough ... But I was comparing them to Blizzard and Epic who are in the thousands.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,257

    Those companies are good examples of why size does not necessarily correlate 1:1 with healthy development practices.

    Also, @darktrix made the point "It takes a certain type of person to keep at it and not saying this type is better, maybe more damaged. I think we are all damaged." This is a super-broken, dim view of our broad relationship with this game. It shouldn't have to be this unhealthy. "He still loves me, things will change" is usually not an attitude that works out in the victim's favor.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,257
    edited July 2019

    And I mean, god, man, throwing your hands up and saying "Welp, it's just not friendly to new players" is neither a healthy attitude, or a design direction that makes sense to anyone who takes game design seriously. It's a serious problem that I suspect quantifiably harms DBD's stickiness, and results in more churn than we are publicly privy to.

    It's going to be interesting to see what the reception is when the game launches on Switch. I would bet that we're going to start seeing threads like this pop up almost every single day.

  • EldritchElise87EldritchElise87 Member Posts: 587

    I agree the experience for a new player must be awful, but it takes a long time to learn and git gud. Its not for everyone, but making the game easier for rank 20 survivors is not the way to go.

    The grind is awful though, and I can imagine someone starting from scratch its a hell of an uphill battle. (Especially if you suck and only get 2-3k bps before dying.)

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,257
    edited July 2019

    "Git gud" is a worthless shorthand that is largely just used to patronize people who are frustrated at a game for (usually) valid, legitimate reasons.

    Even Dark Souls, the game that popularized that turn of phrase, makes SOME recognizable attempts to onboard new players and ensure that they don't feel totally, ARBITRARILY trampled before they can even begin to understand the big picture of what the game is all about and how to move forward.

  • EldritchElise87EldritchElise87 Member Posts: 587

    I have played DBd for over 2 years, with over 2k hours, I have done everything in the game from a killer side, been at Rank 1 for most of it. In the last 3 or 4 months I have played much less, I go on and play a game or two for dailies or to farm BP, im not playing enough to warrant it, but I still have 2k hours of experience. its a week after reset and I am still rank 13.

    (It dosnt help that if you 4k in 3 minutes or people DC you saftey or even depip anyway.)

    Its at a point where playing killer now is more just to mess around doing chainsaw only billy or meme builds than trying to win or pip anymore, I don't play enough to rank up because its not fun to wade through 10 ranks of potatoes to get to competitive games anymore. Id rather play survivor with my friends or other games.

    (Although even at rank 13 I still see red rank survivors trying to boost thier buddies all the time, or 3 red ranks in with a rank 20)

    And if being P3 is your defintion of skill theres somthing wrong, it takes about 2 days to p3 someone if you grind it out, thats no indicator of skill.

  • OnionthingOnionthing Member Posts: 469

    Sorry, while it is a very colorful analogy, I think its a stretch to consider a video game domestic abuse...

  • KillermainBTWm8KillermainBTWm8 Member Posts: 4,212

    Rule of thumb anyone who calls someone else out for bias is usually biased as well.

    As for the actual thread I agree with many of your points for me personally for new players what stands out the most is the excessive grind.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,257

    Fair enough, sorry to be so extreme about it. The point I was trying to make is that we shouldn't normalize this kind of Stockholm Syndrome-esque view of the game.

  • As a Camper/Tunneler myself, BHVR's recent changes to Killers just makes me want to Camp and Tunnel. Have you noticed people like me in your stats?

  • OnionthingOnionthing Member Posts: 469
    edited July 2019

    I get what you are trying to say, so Ill keep any further (misc) retorts to a minimum. You are NOT wrong in the spirit of things. It is good to criticize the dev team, i just think some people take it a bit far. BHVR has said they recognize the problems that were posted and are looking at ways to fix them. I think that's a good sign at least.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,257

    The sad thing about the situation is that the experience on both sides is a mess.

    Anecdotally, when I play killer, I feel like survivors are too fast and have too many options to slip through and undo my efforts, and I feel powerless in what should be the power role. I find myself often questioning why killers don't have some cooldown-based way to simply see where everyone is every X seconds, as a matter of catching up when I am fatally behind.

    And on the survivor side, if I get caught, I feel that I am 100% at the mercy of the killer player's decision to tunnel, and/or my teammates' ability to not fail me. Whether I get to engage with the game is not up to me a lot of the time.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,257

    Game's been out 3 years, how charitable do we need to be about holding their feet to the fire? Freddy rework only took 2 years, and how long have they been talking about dedicated servers now?

    They need to take action on the big problems immediately. Like, how was a fix to the current Sprint Burst exploit not prioritized and deployed inside of 24 hours? I know that development is not an instantaneous process, but when major issues are taking literal years to fix, and there's no demonstrable urgency to anything, I have to raise an eyebrow at any promises that are made, and any assurances that they're looking into such-and-such.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,257

    Man, I hope this doesn't just scroll down and die like all other constructive feedback. I don't think developers should hang every decision on what some especially vocal players say or think, but the sentiment expressed here is broad enough to warrant some sort of consideration in terms of at least acknowledging problems. Hopefully folks press them on a lot of these issues in next week's Q&A.

  • MedivaMediva Member Posts: 107

    Well lets face it, there are perks that are already helping against those. But you guys decided to limit the use of those. Ds should be after every hook when you run it. If someone is tunnelling me from the first hook, they will most definitely do it the second hook as well. But basically when i used my ds on my first hook, i dont have anything to defend myself with anymore. Just plain stupid. And easy to implemet i think. A one time thing isnt scary enough....But it is scary after every unhook.

    Also, its just stupid that killers like the wraith can be in stealth mode next to the hook camping and someone with bt makes the save and it doesnt trigger cause no hardbeat. Bt should trigger by range, not heartbeat. it shouldnt matter what killer it is, when its the only perk you have against camping killers to do something about it.

    Also, with 4 people, there is no reason for a killer to hook someone twice back to back without hanging someone else. To me thats the clear result of tunnelling. So just half the points they get for it.

    Survivors get one big bonus (5k points for escape) when they do their objective. A killer can walk away with zero kills and still have 20k plus points. I know, cause i do this every time without camping and tunnelling. I suck as killer, but i easily get 20k points every match. So make it that the killer gets this bonus too for getting a 4k. Only conditions are that he cant be hit with ds and cant have to many minus scores on his emblem score to receive it. Its ths point system that makes tunnelling and camping the most profitable strategy. And also not just killer points. Rework survivor one as well so they can be without altruism when someone is camping. But with the points system now, you just depip if you dont score there cause survival is already just a one thing score thing in practice.

  • ZenderZender Member Posts: 171
    edited July 2019

    @Carpemortum @Rydog

    I made the comments about my friends (rank 20’s) who quit and we’re matched with a rank 15 killer.

    Those numbers, 15 vs. 20 don’t paint the true picture. Neither does the P3.

    It’s like this, rank reset just happened so the killer was probably rank 12. As hillybilly he had BBQ&C and hex:ruin, forget the other perks. And he was P3.

    This let me know this wasn’t some novice, the killer had played a lot, new the maps cold, had leveled up other killers to get their perks, and had spent hours leveling up billy three times.

    someone of that caliber should not be put with someone with less than 10 hours inn game, unless your objective is to drive most people away.

  • MedivaMediva Member Posts: 107

    Oh and this is also coming from someone who played with her daughter a few rounds today. We just wanted a fun evening as a mother daughter moment. But after hard tunnelled the living hell out of in the 5 games we did, she didnt want to play anymore. Can hardly blame her. There really is no fun when all your matches go like this. I hardly face a facecamp anymore, but the tunnel is very real in 4 out of 5 games. Probably even more. I am using my DS almost every round and its ridiculous. And then still get put out of the game because now the killer has a free pass to me cause i already have my ds gone.

    I played solo. But its not doable anymore like that. To much strength difference between a solo survivor round and the killer. Most of killer perks are designed to fight swf i feel. And solo survivors are paying the price for it. Even with friends, the struggle is real because of the tunnelling. Hardly any fun left. We usually cant play for more then an hour at a time. After that we all feel depressed by the state of nowadays killer. At least looping requires skill (without running infinites offcourse) Tunnelling and camping requires nothing.

  • WytchPuddingWytchPudding Member Posts: 1

    I got the game for less than a week from gamefly due mostly to trolling on the part of other survivors and the camping tunneling stuff. I just got turned off of it. Then during the freeplay, I bought it since I had so many friends with it. Having a solid team is about the only cure for a soured experience the first time around. I love the game now.

  • CoffengMinCoffengMin Member Posts: 862

    thing is only invested players will buy chapters, newcomers will just quit if theres not good perks against these issues in the basegame because nobody likes p2w games. imo you should make base perks every now and then

  • FeelsVeryBadManFeelsVeryBadMan Member Posts: 197

    "(i) Excessive camping/tunneling kills the mood. Many of the deserters mentioned camping and/or tunneling as a huge turnoff. Or to be specific: being camped/tunneled in consecutive games killed the mood of the survivor(s) being subjected to it. The general notion of all the deserters is that the game can turn sour really quickly. It doesn't help that the weakest of the team often becomes the target."

    Why am I not surprised?

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,257
    edited July 2019

    It would help a lot if some "must have" perk features were simply baked into the base kit of each role. The amount of false choice in this game is so out-of-control.

    For survivors: We're Gonna Live Forever for the LOVE OF GOD JUST REWARD THE ALTRUISM FOR EVERYONE BY DEFAULT IT'LL RESULT IN MUCH HAPPIER PLAYERS, Bond, Kindred, Borrowed Time (on each player's first unhook).

    For killers: Whispers, the BP aspect of Barbecue & Chili, Bitter Murmur (or Discordance), Make Your Choice.

    This would address the problem of killers not being able to find survivors quickly enough, killers tunneling and camping, and survivors not having enough information by default. Before you criticize it offhand, sit down and picture what the game might look like if EVERY player had all of these perks in their base kit by default.

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