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Tunneling

TheGorgonTheGorgon Member Posts: 655
edited July 2019 in General Discussions

Tunneling can have a BP or rank decreation or whatever, but Borrowed Time shouldn't even be a perk, borrowed time should be an implementation to the game as base for every survivor to combat tunneling killers. Just an idea.

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Comments

  • RaidokuRaidoku Member Posts: 69

    Agreed some perks shouldn't be perks at all should instead be normal gameplay mechanic.

  • Karl_ChildersKarl_Childers Member Posts: 669
    edited July 2019

    If survivors are ever slowed with an additional objective or just slower repair speed, then yes, BT being built in should absolutely be on the table (amongst other things). Until that happens though, I would say no. At this point, both sides are stuck addressing their issues with perks, so it wouldn’t be fair to help one side’s in the base game and not the other. That’s the issue I have with everyone who just wants the survivor side nerfed. Address both or neither. Only fair.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    At the current state of the game, no. Killers are at such a big disadvantage, they can't win even when they tunnel, as long as the survivors don't play bad.

    Also, the game already provides you with a variety of tools which help you against getting tunneled.

  • AwakeyAwakey Member Posts: 2,998

    I couldn't care less whether my strategies are likeable. If you close the application, there are still on average a few other thousand people to play with. If I want you dead I will make that happen. And oftentimes, Tunneling IS the best strategy to utilize. It eliminates one person, which does wonders to stop the gen blitzkrieg that happens every single match.

  • TheGorgonTheGorgon Member Posts: 655

    Valid point, but I still don't think you get the main point; The game has been decreasing in popularity ever since, or kept a stability. No one is denying the point on the present, I totally agree with you and I don't think you knew that. I'm talking long-term, and how such strategy can affect the game in general.

  • AwakeyAwakey Member Posts: 2,998

    If you guys don't like how I play, then just get some thicker skin. It's as simple as that. And that "decrease in popularity" lie has been disproven multiple times.

  • AwakeyAwakey Member Posts: 2,998

    I do. I'll just phase around the pallet and hit you on hook with my STBFL. Have fun being tunneled!

  • TheGorgonTheGorgon Member Posts: 655
    edited July 2019

    Don't think you read my post. I said or.. stable. Also, no one is complaining on how you play, we are talking about how we could combat it and what it means for the future of the game. I was never quite sure, but I acknowledged the players. Never I said I had concrete stats, I made the reference in what it could mean in the future, not right now. Please. 🤦

  • AwakeyAwakey Member Posts: 2,998
    edited July 2019

    Popularity and strategy have nothing to do with each other. My point still stands. If people don't like my strategies, then grow a pair and move on.

    Edit: Once again, the future of the game does not ride on tunneling. It is an acceptable strategy.

  • TheGorgonTheGorgon Member Posts: 655
    edited July 2019

    My point still stands. No one is disproving your or whoever tunnels, where are you getting that idea from, people like me are totally fine with it, just taking account the playerbase psychology. Believe me, games like Overwatch who suffer from metas and bad strategies, I don't hear or play it as often.

    EDIT: Of course it does! It will decide if players enjoy their experience playing in games, it's an acceptable strategy but is it enjoyable for the others? Because others also don't care with what the counterpart does the majority of the time. The playerbase and balancing define the general health of the game.

  • Ark_the_BonsaiArk_the_Bonsai Member Posts: 862

    @HeyItsNick123andnea

    I tend to align with the Killer Mains more (best to admit bias early on) but I can see where you're coming from with the complaints of tunneling. Excluding the obvious bait you've been arguing with most killers don't like tunneling much more than survivors. The problem isn't that tunneling is a strategy, it's that it's one of the consistent ways to garuntee success. The fact that, no matter the situation, you have more to gain by tunneling (even with your borrowed time suggestion, that's still one less player) is the problem.

    Punishing a killer won't fix that. Making a killer put slightly more effort into it than they would otherwise also won't fix that (the borrowed time baseline suggestion). And if we were to go to the extreme and make survivors immortal for an extended time to protect them from this, assuming the survs didn't abuse this immortality (they would, everyone abuses an advantage. Otherwise this tunneling conversation wouldn't occur), it would only highlight the initial reason some killers choose to lean towards this playstyle. There aren't any rewards for playing nice. There isn't any reason to slowly kill off the survivors collectively. You always benefit more in the long run strategically by downing someone as quickly as possible or removing someone as quickly as possible.

    You shouldn't make the game harder for killers than it already is, but instead highlight a more friendly playstyle with rewards. More points for chasing different survivors, a buff to the killer or a debuff to survivors if they don't focus one person down.

    And in fairness, I feel the same way about what's going on with survivors. The biggest complaint killers have is gen rushing but there is zero reward for not genrushing. If you want to win, that is the best strategy. In turn they should be rewarded more for playing in a more interractive way. You can't remove toxicity with a big stick, that'll just breed more and invite people to abuse it (farming the baseline borrowed constantly) you have to make the non toxic playstyles stand out as a better option. Positive reinforcement of good gameplay rather than negative reinforcement of all gameplay.

  • Ark_the_BonsaiArk_the_Bonsai Member Posts: 862

    Sorry about my wall of text by the way.

  • TheGorgonTheGorgon Member Posts: 655

    Well worth it, just finished reading it. Sounds good and I totally agree!

  • DaS_onlyDaS_only Member Posts: 656

    And then u get an omegablink Nurse with ebony mori camping from the distance charged up and immediately downs and moris you.

    I get what you try to say, it's need sometimes. But it gets to much abused by others just to have an ez game

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,065
    edited July 2019

    Disagree. Borrowed Time being innate would just make something survivors are doing WRONG into something they're doing right. Survivors should fix themselves, not have the game fix their mistakes for them. Tunneling is only a thing because survivors without Borrowed Time unhook right in front of the killer's face whether he's camping or not. There are easy solutions to this. Don't unhook right in front of the killer's face, and bring Borrowed Time if you're going to unhook. Otherwise don't unhook and let someone else do it, or at LEAST bring We'll Make It, then wait for the killer to leave, unhook and heal to full health. You just saved your teammate without a misplay which led to neither of you getting hit afterward, Congratulations on playing correctly.

  • DamarusDamarus Member Posts: 222


    Well, I think we should say the same thing about killers, then. The times I have seen killers playing with BBQ & Chili and NOED are inumerable, and those players are effectively letting the game play for them. What you are saying is that Borrowed Time makes right something survivors are doing wrong. Yet, doesn't the need for NOED mean that the killer couldn't hook survivors BEFORE it activated, which means he played WRONGLY? I personally don't really care about BT and have rarely used it, but tunneling is another thing. Killers keep calling it a strategy, but it really isn't. A strategy is something that requires thinking, planning. A strategy would be that of making a killer chase you in an area where you know there are no available hooks, a strategy would be slugging a survivor to avoid the hatch spawn or to make him give away his fellow survivors' position. Tunneling is just chasing the same guy until you finally get him (and, thanks to Bloodlust, you WILL get him). It doesn't require planning, it doesn't require thinking. Thus, it is NOT a strategy. If anything, the right term would be cheap. The same, on the other hand, could be said about gen rushing, but that has an added variable, that of teamplay and (eventually) communication. In a premade team of even two people, one could be luring away the killer, while the other guy (who knows he is doing so) will focus on a gen or on totems. And yes, there are too many people who unhook in front of the killer just for the sake of points. I proposed a solution to this long ago, which would be that of adding the option to press a key to avoid the chance of being unhooked when you don't want to (features could be added like a differently coloured aura).

  • Buily09Buily09 Member Posts: 495

    I started to do this:

    If you unhook in front of my face, I will try to punish you for this garbage play.

    If you have BT, fine, I will mostly not tunnel. But if you don't and you hook rush me, I will just hook that same guy again.

    Don't hook rush, Killer can punish the unhooker and whole team will be in worse situation.

    I faced many Survivors rushing my hooks without borrow time and they killed their teammembers by this farm. You feed Killer.

  • Dr_TrautsDr_Trauts Member Posts: 688

    no. thats WAY too strong

  • ClogWenchClogWench Member Posts: 2,583

    You can't just take one of the strongest perks and make it base kit.

  • JagoJago Member Posts: 645

    Can't believe so much people consider tunneling as a "strategy"... It's just exploiting the altruism of solo survivors, low effort skill curve for an easy win, thanks to toxic streamers like Truetalent showing those kind of techniques and teaching people how to play "optimal".


    Lel.


    Op BT would be too strong as a base kit, especially for swf cause that would free a perk slot for more meta perks. But if its for solo only why not.


    Instead I think a Kindred as base would help.

  • RoKruegerRoKrueger Member Posts: 1,371

    I have the theory that people who complains about being tunneled are also the ones that get shooted and killed first in First Person Shooters games or is attacked first by other players in Real Time Strategy Games. You can't complain there, is that right?

  • martin27martin27 Member Posts: 695

    I had people call me a tunneler and my response has been "you were just tea baggin and flashlight clicking so much i thought you wanted my undivided attention". So many people will try to get the killers attention and then complain when they get. Sometimes tunneling comes a killers lack of skill or knowledge. Sometimes killers are just being bad word. Sometimes i get called a tunneler because i just happen to run into that survivor. How do you punish the killer that are just being bad word vs those that are subject to chance, new or giving the survivor what they wanted?

  • SlayerSlayer Member Posts: 1,148

    Tunneling (i guess you mean chasing one person consistently) will get killer gen rushed unless survivor that was tunneled played really bad

  • kimukipikimukipi Member Posts: 133

    Nice. Thanotophobia should be base too, just saying.

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