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Do we need more anti-totem perks?

CasmCasm Member Posts: 61
edited July 2019 in General Discussions

Lately I've been seeing lots of complaint threads, mostly about NOED and a few about Ruin. My argument has pretty much always been, 'break totems'. However, unless you're one of the few players that has an eidetic memory on all potential totem placements for every map variation, this can be challenging and waste lots of time. Currently, survivors have access to Small Game and Detective's Hunch, which is definitely helpful and maps with add-ons that can track killer's possessions. Not sure if I'm forgetting anything but I think that's pretty much it when it comes to anti-totem perks.

I stand by my argument that if a survivor has a problem with NOED, they should cleanse totems. However, I'm thinking that more tools should be available. I have an idea for a perk that would definitely help out.

Jinx Sense: You have an affinity for sensing objects of evil. You cleanse totems 10% faster and are informed when within 32 meters of a hex-totem. Bloodpoints gained from cleansing totems is increased by 50/75/100%.

The number would indicate how many totems are left remaining on the map and would work similar to the killer perk Whispers. The perk would appear dark and would light up when you're within 32 meters of a hex totem (and only a hex totem. Dull totems would not light up the perk). However, you'd always know how many totems remain on the map and you would always gain the benefits of cleansing totems faster as well as the extra bloodpoints for doing so (further incentive to cleanse totems).

This perk alone wouldn't solve all your totem woes, but it would definitely help inform the survivor when totem action is warranted. If you see this sucker light up, you know there's a hex somewhere nearby. If you are close to activating the last generator, you'll know if there's any totems left on the map that need to be stomped out to prevent NOED.

I just think a perk like this could really benefit survivors that struggle against NOED and hex perks in general, but not so powerful that it counters hex perks completely. For instance, I don't think this perk would be as powerful as say a map that can track killer possessions. But, it'd be very informative nonetheless.



  • darktrixdarktrix Member Posts: 1,790

    I'm just waiting for them to come up with a perk that blows up a hex totem on cleanse and automatically downs the survivor cleansing it.

    Figure since haunted grounds came out they would want to screw with survivors doing bones even more.

  • CasmCasm Member Posts: 61

    Good survivors wouldn't need to run this perk, so I don't think Ruin would go down any faster than it does now (against high ranked survivors).

    Also, not sure what you mean by 'would pop all the time'. It would only 'pop' when near a hex perk. There's generally only 1 hex perk per game unless the killer is running haunting grounds. Then it might 'pop' twice. So, all the time? No. Maybe you misunderstood how the perk works?

  • RynjRynj Member Posts: 13

    I actually really like this idea. Maybe toy around with the distances to make it effective but a whispers like totem perk would be pretty cool.

  • ChickenchaserChickenchaser Member Posts: 391

    If you can't find totems use a map. totems Are easy to find anyway. You can already cleanse totems at lightning speed. A 10% increase would be insanity. And how is ruin OP? survivors power thru ruin like it's not even there.

    No, just no.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,083
    edited July 2019

    This would ruin slow killers. Like destroy them. Thrill of the Hunt is the only way to actually halfway assure that you get to the totem while they're cleansing it before they finish it off, and it doesn't slow down totem speed too much because you still have to book it to that totem the minute you get the notification. Giving survivors an option of 10% faster cleansing speed, on top of a totem whispers, on top of extra blood points while doing totems is ridiculous. If NOED is their complaint, they have small game and Detective's Hunch. Both do this job well. Even if they don't run either perk, they can run a rainbow map, or even a regular map with certain addons. There're enough ways to find and cleanse totems, survivors are just too lazy to do it. And while you say "good survivors wouldn't need this perk". It's EXTRA BLOOD POINTS, FASTER TOTEM CLEANSING SPEED, AND a totem whispers. If they know the general layout of totems, they'd find the totem instantly, cleanse it faster for more BP, and then go find a gen. From what I hear they're making dull totems 1k BP next patch. That should be enough incentive.

  • CasmCasm Member Posts: 61

    The perk only lights up when near a hex perk, so it wouldn't 'pop all the time' as you're suggesting. I'm thinking you may have misunderstood how the perk would work, though I thought I explained things pretty clearly in the original post.

    Also, I agree that Small game is a good perk. You could use both of the perks together if you wanted. However, the two perks would perform different functions. Small Game helps you find totems where Jinx Sense would inform you of how many totems are left on the map and if any of those totems are hex (when you're close).

    Lastly, most good high ranked survivors would not run this perk. They already know how to play and don't need any more information about totems. So, Ruin wouldn't be destroyed any faster in most high-ranked matches. However, it would (likely) be destroyed faster during low-ranked matches. I don't think that's really that bad a thing.

  • ChickenchaserChickenchaser Member Posts: 391

    That should be a trapper add on. disarming a trap is an instant slug.

  • Maelstrom10Maelstrom10 Member Posts: 1,921

    Personally wouldn't mind small game having an additional effect similar to this. Have a totem counter attached to small game. A 32 metre radius around a totem is huge though keep in mind so it wouldn't really be helpful. If small game made different noises around different objects I think it would be a pretty solid perk (ie maybe a chime or moaning near a totem, but a snap/the normal sound near bear traps, and perhaps with hag traps acting to highlight them rather then giving off a noise (so no warning other then an Aura with no sound in a close radius)

  • CasmCasm Member Posts: 61
    edited July 2019

    Yes, survivors can use maps, if they have them and the add-on that lets them track killer possessions. This perk doesn't even come close to the level of power a map that can do that provides, which is why I'm not sure why this perk would even register as problematic.

    A 10% speed increase reduces the cleanse speed from 14 seconds to 12.6 seconds. That's not insane. That's not even strong.

    However, the perk is designed to be an information perk over everything else and numbers can be tweaked. If a cleanse speed increase is too much, remove it. If 32 meters is too close, increase it. (Or maybe even reduce it. Make it so you have to be very close to the hex totem to know it's there. Of course, that runs the risk of turning the perk into a pinpoint hex totem radar). That's what the PTR is for. Numbers can be adjusted to make sure things maintain a nice balance.

    The point is, I think the survivors that need it could use a few more tools to help them with totems. Only survivors that have an interest in actually cleansing the totems on the map would run this perk, so most high-ranked survivors would not be running it. (also, not sure where you heard ruin is OP and why you bothered to bring that up. Nowhere in the original post does it suggest it is).

    Of course, if this perk were to be introduced, survivors would lose the few excuses for not cleansing totems that are already used. What I'm suggesting is eliminating every reason a survivor would have to not cleanse totems.

  • MassiveToggafMassiveToggaf Member Posts: 37

    I highly disagree with this, even under the guise that it's targeting lower-rank play.

    Assuming high rank survivors wouldn't use it simply because it isn't optimal is ignoring swf groups or even just people that enjoy running different builds that could easily use this to grief killers. As said by others Ruin is already gone quickly and another thing commonly complained about is how Killers will just dc if their Ruin is popped immediately. This will just make the problem even worse.

    Even if going along with your argument and assuming good high rank survivors wont use it, making it's usefulness only at lower ranks doesnt help anything either. All it would do is build up a reliance on said perk for survivors to find totems. On the low rank killer side of things it would work against new player retention for those that either play killers with base hex perks or those that learn to prioritize Ruin, teaching them how useless the perks are.

    I just don't see where it's effective in the long run as it seems to only satisfy those that want to complain about Noed without wanting to learn/acknowledge it's counterplay.

  • MyNamePeteMyNamePete Member Posts: 1,038

    dude literally a 10% increase would be like 0.8 seconds faster

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,083
    edited July 2019

    @MyNamePete You do realize even with Thrill of the Hunt you usually get to them at the last possible second or two before they cleansed a totem, right? Every second matters. If they have enough time to complete the totem, they'll take a hit but get the totem. 0.8 seconds could give them that time. Also it'd be minimum 1.4 seconds(Totems take 14 seconds without Thrill). Also if you thought totems were only 8 second cleanses, why would you ever think a totem should have an increase cleanse speed?

  • ChickenchaserChickenchaser Member Posts: 391

    Almost 1 second. Yep. That's insanely fast. MIght as well make totems cleanse time 5 seconds at that point. cleanse time chould be longer, not shorter.

    The devs shouldn't be balancing the game around low ranks that can't find totems.

  • TheGorgonTheGorgon Member Posts: 777

    no just no

  • oxygenoxygen Member Posts: 2,854
    edited July 2019

    What on earth is the relation between cleansing hex totems/breaking dull totems and "griefing killers"? Sure it sucks to have your hex blown up right away but I don't see how effectively hunting down totems is in any way griefing. I don't see that many killers that DC just because Ruin goes early, and even if I did it's no more my job to ensure they have fun than it's their job to ensure I have fun.

  • CasmCasm Member Posts: 61

    Not every interruption of a hex cleanse happens at the very last second and yes, every second matters which is why this perk shaves off 1.4. It's meant to help survivors. That's the point. It would still take 12.6 seconds to cleanse a totem. Saying that even with TotH you usually only ever stop a survivor at the last possible second is prejudicial, anecdotal and in no way represents what actually happens during most matches. It's a bad argument.

    However, the speed increase was only included as an added incentive to actually, you know, cleanse totems. It's not the focus of the perk and if it was found to be too oppressive, could be easily be removed when the perk is tested. Ie: once actual data can be evaluated. Dismissing it prior to that based on feels would be premature.

  • Condorloco_26Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    What we need is more players with totem hunting in mind

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 13,581

    As a Devour Hope lover, i dislike the idea of having all Hex Perks gain a counter because there's 1 or 2 rotten apples in the basket.

  • DrDeepwoundDrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557

    finding totems in this game is so easy, theres only so many tiles, and its on one of them.

    Not like they are actually hidden, some are in plain sight the moment you run 20 m from where you start LOL

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    Small Game is plenty for countering totems. You really don't even need it if you know where all the totem spawns are.

  • LordGlintLordGlint Member Posts: 6,586
    edited July 2019

    @Casm I think if your going to be doing something like this, it should be affecting both dull and hex totems. This way, your given at least afew "false positives" if your searching for ruin or something.This perk actually sounds pretty similar to whispers, but for totems. I think it would be VERY useful in locating them quickly since totems tend to spawn on certain spots on tiles. This would stop you from wasting time searching on tiles that dont have totems and letting you narrow it down to tiles that DO have a totem on it.

    Also, ppl are bringing up small game. I see this perk to be more useful than small game for the sake of finding totems, while small game would be useful for locating traps.

  • DrDeepwoundDrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557

    I wonder if its mostly survivors who never play killer than cant find totems. After 1400 hours on killers, I pretty much know where totems are as survivor on every map.

  • GaymerDezGaymerDez Member Posts: 1

    This is such a stupid idea I made an account to reply.

    The idea that survivors don't want to spend time searching the map for totems when it is already in their best interest to cleanse them, and instead feel like they need more incentives (perks, bonus bp) is ridiculous.

  • SaitamfedSaitamfed Member Posts: 1,503

    I don't think it will be a good idea, first beceause small game do a similar work, small game pop up in all totems so even if you run it, you will have to look for a few totems until you find the hex totem. Second, almost all killers have problems to reach the hex totem (even with Thrill of the Hunt) when they are in a chase. Third totems are easy to destroy (again even with Thrill of the Hunt). Generally survs do gens and forget about them, then complain "oh, NOED is broken" when they have the power with that perk (similar to The Plague's power wich survivors can trigger it or not). So we don't need more anti-totems perks, we need more perks to protect totems instead, or remove the totem system wich is not that bad. As an example NOED was a killer perk before, so instead of making a powerful perk with a weak point, maybe a bit powerless perk but that remains on the killers side.

  • LordGlintLordGlint Member Posts: 6,586

    @Saitamfed With regards to your comment about how small game is already an anti-totem perk, why would it be a bad thing to offer variety there. We already have many perks that slow the game down for example. While both ruin and PGTW ultimate achieve the same thing, of making the game longer, we arnt saying that a player should only have the option of using 1 perk to do this. I dont think this perk would make small games obsolete, however I DO think it should activate for ALL totems, and not just the currently active ones.

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    I personally find this as a great perk beginning perk for new survivors or a good filler after a prestige. The counter is also a very smart idea as if the killer has NOED, the survivors will have no idea how many totems need cleansed because they only get a cue when a hex is cleansed. In higher ranks though this would be nearly useless. I would see it as a rare, tier 3 for beginners.

  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    Since the edit system is dogshit, I'm writing a new message.

    I meant to say the counter is a great idea as if the killer has NOED (mainly Trappers), the survivor(s) will know him many totems need cleansed before the perk deactivates. It is especially nice as the survivors only recieve a cue when a hex is cleansed, not dull totems which will help if not playing in an SWF group because survivors won't be communicating saying "I'm cleansing a totem" or anything like that.

    This is gonna be very confusing for many people to read

  • SaitamfedSaitamfed Member Posts: 1,503

    @LordGlint If the perk activates with all totems then it will be the same as small game with a boost speed and the number of remaining cleaning totems (wich I think is not great because totems are fast to clean). Don't missunderstand me but if we quit the boost bonus it will be small game with another name and a remaining totems number. And I am not against variety but this is useless because it has the same effect as small game, literally it has. Hex: Ruin and PGTW don't do the same thing so is not a good comparison. As this perk works exactly like small game with a few variations. Let's say this is a "small game rework".

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